Is it possible to go direct to Undergrad program from Olevel

[USgrad]

DadOfGirl:

On the contarary ,i find humanities students form active bond /build community /share knowledge.They develope trait to help & actively receive help( including from Maths & Science scholar)
Students who do well at 'Maths' & Science are very 'Competitive'. For them, 'It's like survival of fittest'. Given these , i guess 'Un-Maths' student coming out of O-level will be more mature than 'Maths/Science' peer.

Generally true, but not the way humanities is taught in Singapore schools.

[USgrad]

koguma:

DadOfGirl:

[quote=\"koguma]

Ex-colleague's daughter is currently studying a full time degree programme in SIM and she is admitted using her \"O\" level results. The degree programme is awarded by University at Buffalo, The State University of New York.

You can check this link for more info on the programmes offered, or you can call SIM direct.

http://www.simge.edu.sg/gePortalWeb/appmanager/web/default?_nfpb=true&_st=&_pageLabel=pgViewAllProgrammes&fid=ViewAllProgrammes

The kid does not have problem with the pace of the programme so far, but her only \"complain\" is she is one of the youngest in the class. However, she is mature in her thinking, hence she has no problem communicating with her classmates who are mostly older than her.

Thank you for info.It is good to know there are options coming thro' if you don't want to go thro' rigors of A-level. This will be a good option,but i guess it would be more general Business adminsitration degree/Accountacy Degree. Will find out. Thank you again.

I think my ex-colleague's daughter is doing Bachelor of Arts (Psychology and Sociology) Awarded by University at Buffalo, The State University of New York .[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

From what I know, graduates from the SIM-UB programs get a degree with the logos from both institutions ie it's not the same as a degree awarded for on-campus students by SUNY UB. My guess is that the programs here are not accredited by the accrediting agencies accrediting SUNY UB in New York. You cannot transfer from Singapore to New York the way you can transfer between different campuses of the same universities eg Insead or Broward College (offered by Center for American Education). And the credits you earn here will probably not transfer to other accredited colleges in the US. If the program is not accredited, there may also an issue if you want to apply for grad schools using the degree.

There used to be another similar US degree program offered by PSB, in a tie-up with CSU Long Beach. I'm not sure if it's still being offered. If you just want a degree to get a job in Singapore, a degree from SIM or PSB, both established PEIs should be ok. But things get tricky if you need the degree to get you places outside of Singapore.

[twilight]

USgrad:

A student with good O level results, SAT score and good record of leadership and co-curricular activities has as good a chance of getting into a very good college as someone with good A level results. Very few (if there's any) colleges require A levels, not even Harvard. As a matter of fact, there was a Singaporean boy who started at Harvard at the age of 16, after his O levels. That was in the 1990s when you can defer your NS to go overseas after your O levels. I do not know how he did for his O levels. What I do know is that he was not amongst the top students academically for his O level cohort. But he was an Olympian at the age of 16. I've no idea how well he did at Harvard, but I believe he did well enough, if not better, compared to other Singaporeans who went after their A levels. He went on to win both the Rhodes Scholarship and the Commonwealth Scholarship.

I believe that is less true these days, when competition is so much stiffer in the 1st tier universities. Even though AP, IB, A levels are not mandatory, admission officers may still take into account all these. Many admission officers say they look for students who have taken the most challenging course load, so this indirectly implies that AP, IB, A levels etc are all considered.

I have several friends who have gone to university way earlier than peers. One is very gifted in physics and had applied to MIT at the age of 14, after completing the equivalent of grade 12, but was rejected. I believe MIT has had their share of child prodigies, so they shouldn't have rejected him based on his age. He did tell me the reason, but I don't feel inclined to share it here. Still, he managed to get into university at 15. Another friend went to university after O levels as well, as did her sister. She's currently in some university in Canada, studying nutrition. Not a top university, but she said that's not her priority, getting into a good university for post graduate is what's important. Another friend entered university at the age of 15 and is studying some engineering. The thing is, 2 of them are really gifted, and their IQ has been tested to be really high. The other friend, I think she is gifted as well, just probably not to the extent of prodigy, and all of them are studying something related to science, and I've not really heard of any friends gaining acceptance into US universities after O levels. I don't know where they applied to though. They could very well have only applied to the highly selective ones, of which even A level students would have small chance of getting in. I only know of one friend who studied philosophy in a US university after O levels. I think this could be because abilities in science can be more easily quantified. I'm not sure though, as I'm personally not very interested in humanities.

That said, there's really no harm trying to apply to universities. The thing is just that it's more likely that the universities will choose you, rather than you being able to choose the universities you want. Since JC starts in end January and US university offers only come in around March, unless you apply for ED, maybe she can attend JC first. If somehow she doesn't resent it, then maybe she can defer her place, or just forfeit it, if she doesn't mind applying all over again the next time. It's really a hassle to apply to US universities.

[USgrad]

twilight:

USgrad:

A student with good O level results, SAT score and good record of leadership and co-curricular activities has as good a chance of getting into a very good college as someone with good A level results. Very few (if there's any) colleges require A levels, not even Harvard. As a matter of fact, there was a Singaporean boy who started at Harvard at the age of 16, after his O levels. That was in the 1990s when you can defer your NS to go overseas after your O levels. I do not know how he did for his O levels. What I do know is that he was not amongst the top students academically for his O level cohort. But he was an Olympian at the age of 16. I've no idea how well he did at Harvard, but I believe he did well enough, if not better, compared to other Singaporeans who went after their A levels. He went on to win both the Rhodes Scholarship and the Commonwealth Scholarship.

I believe that is less true these days, when competition is so much stiffer in the 1st tier universities. Even though AP, IB, A levels are not mandatory, admission officers may still take into account all these. Many admission officers say they look for students who have taken the most challenging course load, so this indirectly implies that AP, IB, A levels etc are all considered.

I have several friends who have gone to university way earlier than peers. One is very gifted in physics and had applied to MIT at the age of 14, after completing the equivalent of grade 12, but was rejected. I believe MIT has had their share of child prodigies, so they shouldn't have rejected him based on his age. He did tell me the reason, but I don't feel inclined to share it here. Still, he managed to get into university at 15. Another friend went to university after O levels as well, as did her sister. She's currently in some university in Canada, studying nutrition. Not a top university, but she said that's not her priority, getting into a good university for post graduate is what's important. Another friend entered university at the age of 15 and is studying some engineering. The thing is, 2 of them are really gifted, and their IQ has been tested to be really high. The other friend, I think she is gifted as well, just probably not to the extent of prodigy, and all of them are studying something related to science, and I've not really heard of any friends gaining acceptance into US universities after O levels. I don't know where they applied to though. They could very well have only applied to the highly selective ones, of which even A level students would have small chance of getting in. I only know of one friend who studied philosophy in a US university after O levels. I think this could be because abilities in science can be more easily quantified. I'm not sure though, as I'm personally not very interested in humanities.

That said, there's really no harm trying to apply to universities. The thing is just that it's more likely that the universities will choose you, rather than you being able to choose the universities you want. Since JC starts in end January and US university offers only come in around March, unless you apply for ED, maybe she can attend JC first. If somehow she doesn't resent it, then maybe she can defer her place, or just forfeit it, if she doesn't mind applying all over again the next time. It's really a hassle to apply to US universities.

Generally, if you have good enough results for your O levels (good enough to make it to at least a mid tier JC), good CCA records and leadership and good SAT scores (above 1,600), you should not have a problem getting into a good university in the US. For top tier universities, a lot more is involved, and it's also very much dependent on who you are competing with. Having A level won't make a difference. In fact, if you end up doing worse for your A level relative to your O level, your chance of getting into a good university may be lower.

As far as I know, no university ask for IQ scores.

Many US colleges offer a liberal arts degree. The Big 3 (Harvard, Yale and Princeton) are all liberal arts colleges. You can major in any subjects of your choice, though it probably won't be a good idea for someone who had just completed her A level and had never done Economics to major in Economics despite there not being any pre-requisite to do so.

As for the top tier universities, specifically Harvard, Yale and MIT, getting straight As for your A level don't guarantee you a place. You need other achievements to stand out, be it leadership, sports or community service. Someone with O level and such achievements do have a similar chance as someone with A levels. The university do look at diversity, so if you have 2 very outstanding candidates from the same top school here, they may only take 1 of them and give the other place to a candidate with a different background.

There are 2 reasons I can think of as to why we're seeing fewer students going to US universities after O levels. Firstly, the boys are now no longer allowed to defer their NS if they go after their O level. Secondly, with most of the better students going the IP route, not many will be thinking of applying to university until they complete their A level or IP.

[Lynn2010]

USgrad:

If the child is weak in Maths and Science, please do not think that you can avoid that by enrolling in college. Most, if not all, degree courses in the US has a substantial general education component. You need to do Math, lab science, humanities, fine arts, communication and critical thinking courses to satisfy the general education requirement in order to graduate.


The Math is at college level, and is more challenging than A level Math. Depending on your course of study, you need to be doing Algebra, Statistics and Calculus. For those doing business and social sciences, you'll likely be doing Calculus for Business and Social Sciences instead of pure Calculus. Statistics has a substantial lab component and you are expected to be able to work on models. The US courses tend to focus more on application and critical thinking.

Hi USgrad,

Does a student gain any credit/exemptions if he/she has an A level pass/distinction in the particular subject?

[USgrad]

meinteel:

Unless the overseas university is in the top 200 list, I see no point in spending tons of $$$ going overseas. It would have been otherwise better spent in the stock market (for dividends & capital gains) or some property for rental income.

While this is generally true, the question is how you determine the top 200 list. If you look at those that Singaporeans commonly look at, the ranking is based largely on research. To me, this is not all that meaningful at the undergraduate level. What you want is good teachers and a supportive environment, not so much how many Nobel Prizes the university had produced, especially if it's in an unrelated area and those award winning researchers do not (and possibly cannot or not interested in) teach. Do look at the ranking for the course you're doing. What I would also consider important is the crime rate in the area and climate. I've seen how towns become desolated after Hurricane Katrina. You won't want your child to be in areas where you have to constantly worry about earthquake or hurricane. The prevalence of drugs or alcohol usage is also a major consideration. Remember how a President's Scholar was expelled from 1 of the Ivies for drug use?

Many of the very good colleges for undergraduate education are not research institutions. They're ranked by Forbes, US News & World Report and The Princeton Review, which I think is a more useful way of looking at ranking.

Top universities does not always have the best outcome. You can look at the quality of the students entering or how they are after leaving. Woodrow Wilson (28th US President), 1 of Princeton most illustrious alumni, said in 1903 when he was President of Princeton, addressing the annual Princeton alumni meeting that:

\"There is a little college down in Kentucky which in sixty years has graduated more men who have acquired prominence and fame than has Princeton in her 150 years.\"

The college he referred to is Centre College. I'm sure not many Singaporeans have heard of the college, but it had produced 2 US Vice Presidents, Supreme Courts judges and 70% of Rhodes Scholar in the state. From 2001 to 2011, Centre produced 24 Fulbright winners, 6 Goldwater Scholars, 11 Rotary International Ambassadorial Scholars, 3 National Science Foundation Graduate Research Fellows, an Udall Scholar, a Rhodes Scholar, and a Mitchell Scholar, despite having an enrolment of just 1,200.

Many of the most successful women in the US attended a women's college. The first women cabinet member (Frances Perkin) as well as the first Asian women cabinet member (Elaine Chao) both attended Mount Holyoke. Madeleine Albright and Hillary Clinton went to Wellesley, while Nancy Pelosi was from Trinity. The Soong sisters went to Wesleyan. All these are very good colleges but do not feature in rankings by Times or Jiao Tong which Singaporeans are familiar with.

[USgrad]

Lynn2010:

USgrad:

If the child is weak in Maths and Science, please do not think that you can avoid that by enrolling in college. Most, if not all, degree courses in the US has a substantial general education component. You need to do Math, lab science, humanities, fine arts, communication and critical thinking courses to satisfy the general education requirement in order to graduate.


The Math is at college level, and is more challenging than A level Math. Depending on your course of study, you need to be doing Algebra, Statistics and Calculus. For those doing business and social sciences, you'll likely be doing Calculus for Business and Social Sciences instead of pure Calculus. Statistics has a substantial lab component and you are expected to be able to work on models. The US courses tend to focus more on application and critical thinking.

Hi USgrad,

Does a student gain any credit/exemptions if he/she has an A level pass/distinction in the particular subject?

Maybe. But it depends on the college and the course you're pursuing. The trouble is you won't know if you're given exemption until after you enrol. You'll need to get a very good advisor (which is very costly) to tell you based on past experience.

I reckon that you won't get anything more than the equivalent of a year, no matter where you go. And that's the most optimistic. Most don't get anywhere near that. So you'll save less than 1 semester by spending 2 years doing your A levels.

[Lynn2010]

USgrad:

I reckon that you won't get anything more than the equivalent of a year, no matter where you go. And that's the most optimistic. Most don't get anywhere near that. So you'll save less than 1 semester by spending 2 years doing your A levels.

Thanks for reconfirming this. I know of someone who got about half a year worth of exemptions. I suppose one spends 2 yrs to do their A level not because one wants the exemption.

In short, if anyone (in theory) sits for SAT and gain a good enough marks, can use it to apply to US uni?? Is TOEFL required by Singapore children who already say have a distinction in Eng/GP for O/A level?

[USgrad]

Lynn2010:

USgrad:

I reckon that you won't get anything more than the equivalent of a year, no matter where you go. And that's the most optimistic. Most don't get anywhere near that. So you'll save less than 1 semester by spending 2 years doing your A levels.

Thanks for reconfirming this. I know of someone who got about half a year worth of exemptions. I suppose one spends 2 yrs to do their A level not because one wants the exemption.

In short, if anyone (in theory) sits for SAT and gain a good enough marks, can use it to apply to US uni?? Is TOEFL required by Singapore children who already say have a distinction in Eng/GP for O/A level?

Yes, A level is necessary if you want a scholarship or want to try for the local universities.

SAT is generally required for most colleges. Many do accept ACT in place of it, but ACT is tougher due to the Science component. You need to cover all the 3 areas of science to prepare for the test.

Most colleges don't usually require TOEFL if the medium of instruction for your education is English. But I do know of some which do, and won't waive it. They only exempt those from countries like UK and Australia. It cost a lot more to take TOEFL compared to SAT and ACT.

[meinteel]

Lynn2010:

Thanks for reconfirming this. I know of someone who got about half a year worth of exemptions. I suppose one spends 2 yrs to do their A level not because one wants the exemption.

In short, if anyone (in theory) sits for SAT and gain a good enough marks, can use it to apply to US uni?? Is TOEFL required by Singapore children who already say have a distinction in Eng/GP for O/A level?

Anyone who sits for SAT would be able to apply and gain admittance to any US universities. Do take note that SAT has a general test (which consist of english and maths) as well as subject tests. While most USA universities admit solely based on the results of general test, better universities usually require the student to subject the scores of 2-3 subject tests (which can be anything from mathematics, chinese, french, german, chemistry, physics,lit, history etc)

Singaporeans who have achieved a merit (pass grade) in Singapore-Cambridge GCE O levels or above would not be required to take TOEFL. This arrangement is so far, exclusively for Singaporeans only.

SAT scores from Singaporean children with A levels are also accepted by Australian universities. If the student scores badly for A levels but does extremely well for SAT, the SAT scores would be taken into consideration and would help to gain decent Australian universities like ANU, UNSW etc.

Both NUS and SMU would take SAT scores into consideration (using it to act as a bonus if done well). SMU which focuses on a more holistic admittance seems to be more accepting towards SAT scores as compared to NUS. However, competitive SAT scores for local universities would be above 2000. That being said, if the said student who scores around 2100-2300 would stand a good chance in reputable USA universities including Stanford, Princeton, Brown, Yale etc.