Is it possible to go direct to Undergrad program from Olevel

[Lynn2010]

Thanks everyone.


A few more questions:

1. How do we know which SAT subject to take for which US uni? Will they specify?

2. If one is offered a place in a uni, the student can defer for a year or two?

Thanks!!

[USgrad]

Lynn2010:

Thanks everyone.


A few more questions:

1. How do we know which SAT subject to take for which US uni? Will they specify?

2. If one is offered a place in a uni, the student can defer for a year or two?

Thanks!!

The subject tests to take depends on your intended major.

Most uni don't hold the place for you for 2 years. 1 semester is possible. 1 year may be tough but you can try.

[USgrad]

meinteel:

Singaporeans who have achieved a merit (pass grade) in Singapore-Cambridge GCE O levels or above would not be required to take TOEFL. This arrangement is so far, exclusively for Singaporeans only.

Is there such an arrangment? I know of universities that require TOEFL even for transfer cases ie those who have achieved an A or B in another accredited US college for the English subjects, on top of a distinction in O level English. 1 of such university is University of Washington.

[meinteel]

USgrad:

meinteel:

Singaporeans who have achieved a merit (pass grade) in Singapore-Cambridge GCE O levels or above would not be required to take TOEFL. This arrangement is so far, exclusively for Singaporeans only.

Is there such an arrangment? I know of universities that require TOEFL even for transfer cases ie those who have achieved an A or B in another accredited US college for the English subjects, on top of a distinction in O level English. 1 of such university is University of Washington.

I went to a US university fair at Suntec last year and that was what I was told by the universities present at that time.

[twilight]

I’ve been told a similar thing by admission officers as well that if one has studied in an English medium school for the past 4 years, TOEFL is not necessary. Best to check with each individual universities I think, as they all have different requirements.

[USgrad]

slmkhoo:

USgrad:

[quote=\"meinteel\"]
Singaporeans who have achieved a merit (pass grade) in Singapore-Cambridge GCE O levels or above would not be required to take TOEFL. This arrangement is so far, exclusively for Singaporeans only.

Is there such an arrangment? I know of universities that require TOEFL even for transfer cases ie those who have achieved an A or B in another accredited US college for the English subjects, on top of a distinction in O level English. 1 of such university is University of Washington.

The most sought-after colleges may be less likely to waive TOEFL, I think. My husband applied to do a PhD (in the '90s though, so things may have changed) with a first class degree from a top UK university, and was still required to submit a TOEFL score![/quote]That's a surprise. But it's probably because he spend less than the required number of years studying in the UK (I'm assuming he had his education in Singapore prior to going to university in the UK). And then again, in the 1990s, it wasn't uncommon for overseas universities to require TOEFL if your education had been in Singapore. Haven't heard of any universities requiring TOEFL for those from UK.

[USgrad]

meinteel:

USgrad:

[quote=\"meinteel\"]
Singaporeans who have achieved a merit (pass grade) in Singapore-Cambridge GCE O levels or above would not be required to take TOEFL. This arrangement is so far, exclusively for Singaporeans only.

Is there such an arrangment? I know of universities that require TOEFL even for transfer cases ie those who have achieved an A or B in another accredited US college for the English subjects, on top of a distinction in O level English. 1 of such university is University of Washington.

I went to a US university fair at Suntec last year and that was what I was told by the universities present at that time.[/quote]I've been to such a fair before. Most of the booths were manned by students who are back on vacation or alumni who happen to be here at the time. Very few fly their admission office staff here. I suppose what they tell you should be correct for their university, though I doubt it's applicable to all universities in the US. Best to check directly with the university.

[USgrad]

slmkhoo:

If the child is mature and really knows what she wants to do, I can see the argument for letting her do it sooner. But I think it's a rare child who knows that at 17yo. And especially for humanities/social sciences/law subjects, maturity does count for a lot. Younger students usually don't do as well as older ones, and mature students usually do well as they can draw on experience of life as well. I think students who excel at pure sciences and maths are probably better candidates for going to unversity early.

Actually, I think most students do have a fairly good idea as to what they want to do at 17 years old. The polytechnics are a lot more specialized compared to universities and many enter at 16 or 17.

Even those who are not totally certain what they want to do, many do know the general direction they should be heading. Or at least what they definitely won't want to do. The beauty of a US education is that you spend quite some time in the first year or so on general education subjects, regardless of what you choose to major in. After the first year in college, they'll have a much better idea what they want compared to someone who is in a JC with limited exposure beyond the sciences and limited areas in humanities. And it's not difficult to change your major even after you've declared it - a physics or maths major can easily switch to engineering, or vice versa, without losing any of the credit earned.

[USgrad]

twilight:

I believe that is less true these days, when competition is so much stiffer in the 1st tier universities. Even though AP, IB, A levels are not mandatory, admission officers may still take into account all these. Many admission officers say they look for students who have taken the most challenging course load, so this indirectly implies that AP, IB, A levels etc are all considered.

I have several friends who have gone to university way earlier than peers. One is very gifted in physics and had applied to MIT at the age of 14, after completing the equivalent of grade 12, but was rejected. I believe MIT has had their share of child prodigies, so they shouldn't have rejected him based on his age. He did tell me the reason, but I don't feel inclined to share it here. Still, he managed to get into university at 15. Another friend went to university after O levels as well, as did her sister. She's currently in some university in Canada, studying nutrition. Not a top university, but she said that's not her priority, getting into a good university for post graduate is what's important. Another friend entered university at the age of 15 and is studying some engineering. The thing is, 2 of them are really gifted, and their IQ has been tested to be really high. The other friend, I think she is gifted as well, just probably not to the extent of prodigy, and all of them are studying something related to science, and I've not really heard of any friends gaining acceptance into US universities after O levels. I don't know where they applied to though. They could very well have only applied to the highly selective ones, of which even A level students would have small chance of getting in. I only know of one friend who studied philosophy in a US university after O levels. I think this could be because abilities in science can be more easily quantified. I'm not sure though, as I'm personally not very interested in humanities.

That said, there's really no harm trying to apply to universities. The thing is just that it's more likely that the universities will choose you, rather than you being able to choose the universities you want. Since JC starts in end January and US university offers only come in around March, unless you apply for ED, maybe she can attend JC first. If somehow she doesn't resent it, then maybe she can defer her place, or just forfeit it, if she doesn't mind applying all over again the next time. It's really a hassle to apply to US universities.[/quote]

Actually, competition for the top tier universities had always been stiff. It's just that these days, straight As are a lot more common so more straight As students get rejected. AP is different from A level of IP - like CLEP, it's taken for credit exemption by high school students in the US. That's why it's possible for the top students to complete their degree a year or 2 earlier. Taking the most challenging course load is not about A level or O level, but more about your subject combination, the number of subjects you've taken etc. For transfer students, for example, 2 students with the same GPA may be distinguished if 1 have taken mostly 100 level subjects while the other have done more upper level subjects, or 1 have done more subjects per semester.

I think there is a lot of difference between a 14 or 15 year old and someone who have completed O level after spending 4 years in a secondary school. If the O level graduate is an outstanding student, she'll likely have held substantial leadership positions. As most of the top leadership positions are given to the most senior students ie those in Sec 4, it'll be difficult for a younger student to have substantial track record for leadership. And leadership is definitely a very important consideration for most colleges.

I'm not sure how your 14 year old friend complete the equivalent of Grade 12, and if he had very good grades for all his other subjects besides physics. If his grade for other subjects are not A or equivalent, he'll definitely lose out applying to MIT who have more applicants with straight As than places. Many straight As students do get rejected by MIT even with A levels. The way Harvard or MIT define giftedness or child prodigy is quite different from the way we see it. There are not many who managed to gain entry to those universities before the age of 16. He'll probably also compare less favorably in terms of leadership and other extra-curricular achievements. If he had close to staight As, he should have a good chance of getting into other very good universities like Caltech, UCBerkeley, UMich or GaTech.

In my opinion, unless you're a child prodigy looking to do research or music, where interpersonal skills and leadership are not so important, going to college at 15 or younger is not exactly a good idea. It's not easy for you to fit in with your peers and even if they accept you as a young friend, they're not going to relate to you the way they relate to those of the same age or vote you into any leadership positions. All the more so if you're an international student and a minority. And holding leadership positions is definitely an important consideration for most employers. Also if you want to go to grad school, more so if you want a scholarship to do so.