MOE not tweaking P1 registration

[Sun_2010]

Chenonceau:

Sun_2010:

No worries , that is what I thought too. After all that is what we look out for when enrolling in Preschool.

Only some months back i came to know that Student teacher ratio and class size are different. Give it a thought , it makes sense for bigger children who tend to have specialised teachers. That is why for Sec schools the ration is even more teachers than for Primary schools.

I am confused. This is Math so I'm a bit handicapped. This article (http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Edvantage/Story/A1Story20120409-338585.html) reports... \"He concluded that MOE plans to reduce the student teacher ratio in primary schools from 18 to 15 and from 16 to 13 in secondary schools.\"

You are saying that classes in secondary school should be smaller... and those in primary should be larger... and those in preschool should be smaller? Is it?

Oh dear, i am clouding things even more :nailbite:

As per my interpretation of the report :
Currently in primary schools there are 18 students for every teacher . This will be reduced to 15 students to every teacher. Which means that more teachers will be added since the number of students are about the same.

Currently in Secondary schools there are 16 students for every teacher . This current secondary school ratio is better than the primary school ratio. (means there are already more teachers in Secondary school than primary school assuming almost all primary school students go to secondary). This will be reduced to 13 students to every teacher.

[Chenonceau]

Sun_2010:

Chenonceau:

I am confused. This is Math so I'm a bit handicapped. This article (http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Edvantage/Story/A1Story20120409-338585.html) reports... \"He concluded that MOE plans to reduce the student teacher ratio in primary schools from 18 to 15 and from 16 to 13 in secondary schools.\"

You are saying that classes in secondary school should be smaller... and those in primary should be larger... and those in preschool should be smaller? Is it?

Oh dear, i am clouding things even more :nailbite:

As per my interpretation of the report :
Currently in primary schools there are 18 students for every teacher . This will be reduced to 15 students to every teacher. Which means that more teachers will be added since the number of students are about the same.

Currently in Secondary schools there are 16 students for every teacher . This current secondary school ratio is better than the primary school ratio. (means there are already more teachers in Secondary school than primary school assuming almost all primary school students go to secondary). This will be reduced to 13 students to every teacher.

:snuggles: Thanks for taking time to explain. Can you help me understand further how the 2 points above relates to specialization and children's age? That's the part I'm not seeing clearly.

[BeContented]

Chenonceau:

Sun_2010:

[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]
I am confused. This is Math so I'm a bit handicapped. This article (http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Edvantage/Story/A1Story20120409-338585.html) reports... \"He concluded that MOE plans to reduce the student teacher ratio in primary schools from 18 to 15 and from 16 to 13 in secondary schools.\"

You are saying that classes in secondary school should be smaller... and those in primary should be larger... and those in preschool should be smaller? Is it?

Oh dear, i am clouding things even more :nailbite:

As per my interpretation of the report :
Currently in primary schools there are 18 students for every teacher . This will be reduced to 15 students to every teacher. Which means that more teachers will be added since the number of students are about the same.

Currently in Secondary schools there are 16 students for every teacher . This current secondary school ratio is better than the primary school ratio. (means there are already more teachers in Secondary school than primary school assuming almost all primary school students go to secondary). This will be reduced to 13 students to every teacher.

:snuggles: Thanks for taking time to explain. Can you help me understand further how the 2 points above relates to specialization and children's age? That's the part I'm not seeing clearly.[/quote]In primary level, the same teacher may teach 2-3 subjects. In secondary level, teachers tend to be more subject-specialist ie. 1 teacher 1 subject. Hence you will need more teachers in secondary.......and so the sch ratio in secondary become lower than primary.

Sun, did I read you correctly??

[Chenonceau]

So why would subject specialization require more teachers?

[Average Joe]

limlim:

Average Joe:

When the day really comes where every school is indeed a good school, we wouldn't be having debates like this.


I think some refinement to Phase 2A for e.g. to impose some form of quota (25% of remaining vacancies after Phase 1?) is not entirely unreasonable.

Just wondering..

If there is 2 school that are EQUALLY GOOD in All aspects.. (Just, for example).

Would the alumni send their kid to their alma mater 5km away, or the school next door?

What you all feel?

I guess it depends on what is the school that is next door and the unique circumstances of each individual for e.g. if they have a car? do they see value in trading off travelling time for their kid to attend their alma mater?

Personally, all things equal, I'll go for the school next door from a practical point of view.

[Sun_2010]

Chenonceau:

Sun_2010:

[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]
I am confused. This is Math so I'm a bit handicapped. This article (http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Edvantage/Story/A1Story20120409-338585.html) reports... \"He concluded that MOE plans to reduce the student teacher ratio in primary schools from 18 to 15 and from 16 to 13 in secondary schools.\"

You are saying that classes in secondary school should be smaller... and those in primary should be larger... and those in preschool should be smaller? Is it?

Oh dear, i am clouding things even more :nailbite:

As per my interpretation of the report :
Currently in primary schools there are 18 students for every teacher . This will be reduced to 15 students to every teacher. Which means that more teachers will be added since the number of students are about the same.

Currently in Secondary schools there are 16 students for every teacher . This current secondary school ratio is better than the primary school ratio. (means there are already more teachers in Secondary school than primary school assuming almost all primary school students go to secondary). This will be reduced to 13 students to every teacher.

:snuggles: Thanks for taking time to explain. Can you help me understand further how the 2 points above relates to specialization and children's age? That's the part I'm not seeing clearly.[/quote]Oh, that was the confusing part.
Let me try explaining
For Lower primary a Form teacher takes all most of the subjects. So if there are 10 classes in a level they would need about 10 form teachers , one additional ( year head), 3-4 MT teachers about 14-15 teachers.
For P5, say we have teachers dedicated for every major subject - So every class would need one for maths, one for science, one for english, one for music+arts, one for health+ PE/charecter/ACE

Given the usual lesson time is about 5 hours per week day
For maths and eng if there is on average one hour to one and half hour per day 1 math teacher can take maximum of 4 classes . And if she is also a form teacher she cannot be packed from Mon-Fri filled with class time. They also do supplementary classes .So there needs to be atleast 3 maths teachers to cater to one level.
So for the same 10 classes in Upper primary there will be 3 maths+3 eng+3 science+3 PE/Health/char/music/Art+ 3-4MT + additional (year head ) = 16-17 teachers.

the same holds for the Secondary schools I think
More subject specialities - geog, history, Lit, chem , Bio, Physics, Maths...
A chem teacher wil teach chem only, so on. so more teachers are needed to balance them out.

Ok thats my theory , dont shoot me.

[Chenonceau]

Sun_2010:

Chenonceau:

[quote=\"Sun_2010\"]
Currently in Secondary schools there are 16 students for every teacher . This current secondary school ratio is better than the primary school ratio. (means there are already more teachers in Secondary school than primary school assuming almost all primary school students go to secondary). This will be reduced to 13 students to every teacher.

:snuggles: Thanks for taking time to explain. Can you help me understand further how the 2 points above relates to specialization and children's age? That's the part I'm not seeing clearly.

Oh, that was the confusing part.
Let me try explaining
For Lower primary a Form teacher takes all most of the subjects. So if there are 10 classes in a level they would need about 10 form teachers , one additional ( year head), 3-4 MT teachers about 14-15 teachers.
For P5, say we have teachers dedicated for every major subject - So every class would need one for maths, one for science, one for english, one for music+arts, one for health+ PE/charecter/ACE

Given the usual lesson time is about 5 hours per week day
For maths and eng if there is on average one hour to one and half hour per day 1 math teacher can take maximum of 4 classes . And if she is also a form teacher she cannot be packed from Mon-Fri filled with class time. They also do supplementary classes .So there needs to be atleast 3 maths teachers to cater to one level.
So for the same 10 classes in Upper primary there will be 3 maths+3 eng+3 science+3 PE/Health/char/music/Art+ 3-4MT + additional (year head ) = 16-17 teachers.

the same holds for the Secondary schools I think
More subject specialities - geog, history, Lit, chem , Bio, Physics, Maths...
A chem teacher wil teach chem only, so on. so more teachers are needed to balance them out.

Ok thats my theory , dont shoot me.[/quote]Whoa! So much Math... no wonder I couldn't make the link. I wouldn't be able to reason through those numbers without an Excel spreadsheet. Thanks for explaining. I understand now.

[Nebbermind]

limlim:

Just wondering..


If there is 2 school that are EQUALLY GOOD in All aspects.. (Just, for example).

Would the alumni send their kid to their alma mater 5km away, or the school next door?

What you all feel?

Alma mater, without a doubt!!! :celebrate:
Something just cannot be replicated!

[Nebbermind]

ksi:

phtthp:

why GEP classes can have 25 kids max, but Mainstream cannot (at the moment is around 40 for Upper primary) ? If they can do it to GEP, why not to Mainstream too ?

after all, MOE keep hiring so many trainee teachers every batch / year. They come in easily. There is no lack of teachers. So teacher staff resources should not be an issue ... at most, can open up more classes.

Read before you are an ex-teacher, right?

Ex-teacher meh?

I thought she's still with RGPS...hmmm...then again, maybe not teacher.

[Chenonceau]

Nebbermind:

ksi:

[quote=\"phtthp\"]

why GEP classes can have 25 kids max, but Mainstream cannot (at the moment is around 40 for Upper primary) ? If they can do it to GEP, why not to Mainstream too ?

after all, MOE keep hiring so many trainee teachers every batch / year. They come in easily. There is no lack of teachers. So teacher staff resources should not be an issue ... at most, can open up more classes.

Read before you are an ex-teacher, right?

Ex-teacher meh?

I thought she's still with RGPS...hmmm...then again, maybe not teacher.[/quote]Let's not get personal.