Government, what you really want us to do?
-
Mychildren:
oh... u don't have to be sorry....nightlone,
When u're sick & your DH oversea for work trips, how ??
By the way, I no maid, mother in law not staying in S'pore. Mother need to take care of my bro's kids. I die die also cannot be sick la. But will think of a way, maybe the young one cannot go school while the elder ones still can go school by themselves.
I don't think anyone wants to put off their parental duties. They just need help here & there. I myself prefers no maid, if not I'll be handling an extra person at home.
Yes, u have to set priorities, what to go first. I put my children first, follow by the rest.
Sorri dear, u can voice up whatever u feel. Not :pokeeye: u. Just stating what I have come across. Do continue to voice your opinions.
Scenario: My husband and I and 1 child overseas
When I was sick, my husband took leave for that day to take care of him. If he couldn't, then I just took medicine, drank a lot of water and 'sucked it up'.
When he went exercise (like for a couple of months), my boy and I actually had a lot of fun ourselves. We went hiking, swimming, shopping, play dates.
We hardly had 'couple time'. We would go for breakfast when he was in school sometimes.
When he wanted to go out with his friends, I stayed in. And vice versa.
When he worked nights, he'd be sleeping during the day. I would bring him to school then went coffee with some friends.
Only thing is that sometimes I don't get the time to cook lunch and his dinner for him to bring to work. So during these times, he'll grab a sandwich to bring to work. But he understands that I need time alone so he doesn't fuss.
Sometimes I envy the no-kids couples. I remember those times too, before kids. They go out til late. Hang out with the other no-kids people. Go group holidays, etc.
It's just that once you have kids, things change. Sacrifices must be made.
Now that we have returned to Singapore, I don't bother the grandparents much. If he wants to go out with his friends, I stay in. And vice versa.
We go out by ourselves only when he's in school. If not, we bring him along.
What I cannot stand is parents who park their kids with other people to go for a haircut or go town to shop or something. I mean, that's why there're 2 right? So that one picks up the slack? One can have a hair cut while the other babysits? And what's the big deal about bringing your kids to the mall? Yeah, they're whiny and keep wanting to look at toys, but that's part and parcel of being a parent. So, go to a park. Or u go out and the husband babysits for a bit. Or something. Just work something out.
That's also what I meant by why people want to have kids but don't want to spend time with them. If you think you enjoy the single life, want to spend on yourself only, then I think one shouldn't have kids. Because once you have them, the single life is but a dream. There probably won't be extra money for you to get non-essential things or at least, you would have to consider very hard before you get that shoe or purse. -
concern2:
I do too empathize with parents who have to rely on themselves only.
Hmm...still find that you are comparing just one-off cases. But in any case, I do understand what you are trying to say. Perhaps many Singaporeans are less adaptable, too used to having help on hand that they feel crippled and lack the confidence to charge on on their own and take responsibilities. Sometimes, it could also be that emotional dependence that makes it worse when their family leaves. That's why I also do not advocate having maids around if possible. It makes one more dependent. That said, I do empathize a lot with working parents who do not have other help on hand while they are at work.nightlone:
i actually don't mean the shopping and all that. But good point. From your post, you can see that the American parents are very hands on. They train their kids to be independent. They quit their jobs and dedicate the time ferrying their kids around. They look out for good deals to save money. I agree with you.
I'm not comparing a Singaporean living in Sg with an American living in American. I was comparing a Singaporean to an American who are both living in the same city. Ferrying their kids to school, supermarket, etc.
Cutting the same coupons.
Browsing the same websites.
Going to the same supermarket, eg Walmart.
The American mum seems to be more independent, more put together.
The Singapore mum seems to get very easily overwhelmed.
I'm not comparing a Singaporean living in Sg with an American living in American.
When I bring my child to school, I see the American mum bringing her 4 kids to drop one kid at preschool. Some are bringing around newborns.
And, as an aside, they manage to dress really well in the morning, make up and all. As for me, shamefully, I barely have enough time to brush my teeth, wash my face, change my child, grab a snack, before I rush off to school. I tried to wake up earlier to put on a better face, but failed miserable.
Anyways.... I don't really hear about a parent leaving her newborn with a maid or grandparent when she brings her other child to school.
When my Singapore friend gave birth, she was worried about how she was going to deal with bringing her child to school with her newborn.
To me, it is not a huge deal. I see it being done all the time.
So I think that the worrying is pointless.
Perhaps that we have too high expectations of ourselves.
I used to be that mum who nags at my child when he spills on himself. Doesn't allow him to play play-doh because it's dirty.
Make a huge fuss when he's got crumbs on him.
Etc.
But after living there for a while, I just learnt to let go.
It's just juice/crumbs. That's what the washing machine is for. That's why we take baths.
It's just play-doh. That's what the vacuum cleaner is for.
And it's just how kids are.
Sometimes, it is also a matter of time that one learns. Ultimately, one needs time to adapt and learn. It is whether one sees it as an opportunity or a misfortune that makes the difference.
It's really not easy, especially in Singapore.
I certainly didn't find it easy when it was just the 3 of us.
I was a single mum before too, during the first year of my kid's life. I went to work, fetched him to and from day care. I had no life at all. When I wanted to go out with friends, my mum wasn't too happy babysitting so i hardly went out. Or just went to friends' with kids house.
Anyway, it was going overseas and relying on ourselves only that I realized that it can be done. And actually it's less stressful too. Coz if u rely on your parents, it may be that they are nagging at u behind your back or you're afraid that they may be too tired or you're afraid that they are allowing your kids to watch too much tv or picking up some habits that you don't like but cannot tell them etc.
But then if you do it yourself, hey, it's my rules.
It's happening in my family now too. All the grandkids are at my house because the grandparents live with us and so I hear things, like the grandma grumbling about this daughter not doing this or that for her child or why her daughter does this or that or even why the daughter dresses her daughter like that.
I know that my SIL is also very stressed with the added expectations. But no choice, she cannot say anything because she needs her parent's help. -
Dora1:
No lah... i'm not comparing sg mummies living in sg to american mummies living in america.
Not fair to SG mummies. Did you also factor in the fact that they can choose to be SAHM, while most SG couples have to be dual income cos they are struggling to pay their HDB flats (esp those bought in the last 3 years)?nightlone:
I agree with not hiring maids.
I lived in the States for a couple of years and observed the ang mohs. they have 3, 4 kids. Maybe 1 kid goes to a preschool. The other 2 goes to middle school. The other is, maybe, an infant. The mum brings the kids to school with no external help at all. She puts the car seat in the stroller and drops her preschooler off. Then drives off to drop the other 2. Or vice versa.
I suppose it is much easier with a car and big roads. I just do admire how they are able to do it.
The Singaporeans who have a young child and then give birth there (which makes 2) grumble and whine about how difficult it is to take care of 2 kids. But the ang mohs can do it in the same environment, so why can't the Singaporean?
I concluded that we are all molly-coddled in singapore so cannot adapt to make things work.
Also, the ang mo education system is so much more relaxed, they don't really care if the kid can read before P1, and they don't have spelling tests etc in pre-schools. They have almost no homework in Primary schools, so the mummy only needs to worry about their well being. Even then, it is perfectly normal for them to just feed their kids a peanut butter sandwich for lunch, would SG mums do that?
I also have no maid, used to be a PTWM, now FTWM, still no maid. I try to cook dinner 3 weekdays. And hubby travels frequently or have night telecons a few times a week. If not he'll be at home working till wee hours of the night almost everyday. No grandparents help also. I could only go back to FTWM cos my girl is bigger now and more independent. She does help out in the housework.I can tell you, it's very very tough. I only have 1 kid. I cannot imagine having a 2nd one.
It's cannot be a fair comparison.
I'm referring to sg mummies living in america and american mummies living in america.
And you may be surprised... they are gan cheong about their kids education but somehow have a very carpe diem attitude about it. They believe more in the all rounder education than our very rigid education here. -
ksi:
haha... i'm talking about me
Hello hello :imanisland: :imanisland: are you talking about me?nightlone:
i ascribe to the thinking that \"it's my choice to have kids so i need to be responsible for them and not park them at the grandparents or someone else.\"
if i think i cannot handle it, then i'm not going to give birth.
what's the point of having a child but being unable to spend time with them and nurture them? what's the point of giving birth when you just leave them with the grandparents or someone else all the time?
I admit i'm selfish de... -
(er i was quoting from someone but cannot have more than 3 quotes so i deleted something and the post looks weird, so i just deleted the quotes)
i agree with y’all. It’s really the environment.
When I bring my boy to Kumon Monday and Thursday in USA, I see parents at 4+ pm at the baseball field, practising with their kids, cheering them etc. They bring their foldable chairs, ice boxes, settle in and just watch their kids and mingle with the other parents.
When I see that, I wonder that when I go back to Singapore, will i be able to do that?
Well I asked my husband how come they don’t need to be working at 4+pm, he said that they start work very early, like 730am. But i also cannot imagine telling my boss, hey i gotta be at the field at 4+ on Monday to cheer my son on/because he’s got ball practice/(enter activity here).
Oh, and the Kumon there only gives 5 pages of worksheets. The Sg Kumon gives 10. I was, like, huh, need so many or not? He’s only 5 leh. -
limlim:
but... we are civilized creatures...
Bcoz it is programmed into humans..? the desire to reproduce and carry on the species..nightlone:
what's the point of having a child but being unable to spend time with them and nurture them? what's the point of giving birth when you just leave them with the grandparents or someone else all the time?
of coz, as civilisation progress, the considerations differ.. carrying on the species is no longer the primary or sole consideration.. but no matter what.. it is a basic instinct dictated by mother nature.. the desire to reproduce is always there.. -
Wow! Just 3 days, we already on 25 page. You SAHMs/SAHMen, FTWMs/FTWMen can really discuss a lot! How come FTWMen do not need to work one huh and still can come here to TCSS for the whole day :? I guess if you could do that, you can manage your family very well. Lucky you! Not everyone like you can still come here to TCSS for whole day while you are working. Not sure if you have any extra helps or bo (be it having SAHW, old folks or helpers or CC) when your children are young.
Government has nothing to do with the low fertility rate meh? I find it hard to believe that people are totally not aware of all those facts such as:
+ Who urged Singaporean to just deliver 2 at most more than 3 decades ago and imposed fine and gave low priority to the 3rd and beyond children?
+ Who come to realize about 1 decade ago but unfortunately rather too late that we need to have more babies than just 2. Too bad! the damage have been done and we got hit and facing now?
+ Did you ever wonder why the fertility rate is higher during our parents' era when most of the mothers were staying at home. My mother told me that those working women were also having lesser children during her time. What does it tell you? Many factors causing that.. too much stresses, lesser time, no supports etc.
+ I think the Government policies did have significant impacts on whether woman chose to work and not to have more babies or whether woman chose not to work but have more babes. With higher and higher property prices and living expenses now, I guess women get stucked with no choice soon.
+ In order to counteract low fertility rate, government relaxed the immigration policy and allowed more FT to work in Singapore..There will have another set of problems altogether later on..but Government is still not actively looking for solution for it..
+ Low fertility rate also results in high aging population, then another policy to counteract the problem..n so on..n so forth. all these create a vicious circle. If you don't try to recognize the root cause of the problems and rectify them.. These cycles will continue in the direction of this momentum until .... :yikes: -
Melodies:
I think the government does play a part in contributing to the fertility rate. This society is so competitive. Everything is so expensive and prices continue to rise. Ok, so you think, i only spend on essentials but essentials are also expensive and there's no help from anywhere, other than you work yourself to the bone (and sometimes that doesn't help still).Wow! Just 3 days, we already on 25 page. You SAHMs/SAHMen, FTWMs/FTWMen can really discuss a lot! How come FTWMen do not need to work one huh and still can come here to TCSS for the whole day :? I guess if you could do that, you can manage your family very well. Lucky you! Not everyone like you can still come here to TCSS for whole day while you are working. Not sure if you have any extra helps or bo (be it having SAHW, old folks or helpers or CC) when your children are young.
Government has nothing to do with the low fertility rate meh? I find it hard to believe that people are totally not aware of all those facts such as:
+ Who urged Singaporean to just deliver 2 at most more than 3 decades ago and imposed fine and gave low priority to the 3rd and beyond children?
+ Who come to realize about 1 decade ago but unfortunately rather too late that we need to have more babies than just 2. Too bad! the damage have been done and we got hit and facing now?
+ Did you ever wonder why the fertility rate is higher during our parents' era when most of the mothers were staying at home. My mother told me that those working women were also having lesser children during her time. What does it tell you? Many factors causing that.. too much stresses, lesser time, no supports etc.
+ I think the Government policies did have significant impacts on whether woman chose to work and not to have more babies or whether woman chose not to work but have more babes. With higher and higher property prices and living expenses now, I guess women get stucked with no choice soon.
+ In order to counteract low fertility rate, government relaxed the immigration policy and allowed more FT to work in Singapore..There will have another set of problems altogether later on..but Government is still not actively looking for solution for it..
+ Low fertility rate also results in high aging population, then another policy to counteract the problem..n so on..n so forth. all these create a vicious circle. If you don't try to recognize the root cause of the problem.. These cycles will continue in the direction of this momentum until .... :yikes:
We've been told again and again to study hard so that next time can find good job and good money. No one ever said to find a good family. it's always pay or job or career. Then you think about buying a house, but, omg, it's so expensive, so you continue to work. Then with utilities and conservancy increasing all the time, it gets like really tiring.
Then you think about kids. day care, sick days, tuition, time to spend with them, school books etc. All these things need money and it's not cheap getting these in Sg.
Then I remember my mum wanting to pass down my primary school stuff to my brother (we're 4 years apart) but the syllabus was always changing so always have to buy new ones. Everytime it's $100+ just for the textbooks. Want to use second-hand also no chance. The govt change syllabus right?
Medical is also expensive. Either you wait for the whole morning at the polyclinic or you pay for the private doctor. So better not get sick.
It's like one long struggle. -
nightlone:
I have already started to tell my kid, at toddler age, that next time when working, must help to support me (SAHM) as now at home help to look after kid.
I think the government does play a part in contributing to the fertility rate. This society is so competitive. Everything is so expensive and prices continue to rise. Ok, so you think, i only spend on essentials but essentials are also expensive and there's no help from anywhere, other than you work yourself to the bone (and sometimes that doesn't help still).Melodies:
Wow! Just 3 days, we already on 25 page. You SAHMs/SAHMen, FTWMs/FTWMen can really discuss a lot! How come FTWMen do not need to work one huh and still can come here to TCSS for the whole day :? I guess if you could do that, you can manage your family very well. Lucky you! Not everyone like you can still come here to TCSS for whole day while you are working. Not sure if you have any extra helps or bo (be it having SAHW, old folks or helpers or CC) when your children are young.
Government has nothing to do with the low fertility rate meh? I find it hard to believe that people are totally not aware of all those facts such as:
+ Who urged Singaporean to just deliver 2 at most more than 3 decades ago and imposed fine and gave low priority to the 3rd and beyond children?
+ Who come to realize about 1 decade ago but unfortunately rather too late that we need to have more babies than just 2. Too bad! the damage have been done and we got hit and facing now?
+ Did you ever wonder why the fertility rate is higher during our parents' era when most of the mothers were staying at home. My mother told me that those working women were also having lesser children during her time. What does it tell you? Many factors causing that.. too much stresses, lesser time, no supports etc.
+ I think the Government policies did have significant impacts on whether woman chose to work and not to have more babies or whether woman chose not to work but have more babes. With higher and higher property prices and living expenses now, I guess women get stucked with no choice soon.
+ In order to counteract low fertility rate, government relaxed the immigration policy and allowed more FT to work in Singapore..There will have another set of problems altogether later on..but Government is still not actively looking for solution for it..
+ Low fertility rate also results in high aging population, then another policy to counteract the problem..n so on..n so forth. all these create a vicious circle. If you don't try to recognize the root cause of the problem.. These cycles will continue in the direction of this momentum until .... :yikes:
We've been told again and again to study hard so that next time can find good job and good money. No one ever said to find a good family. it's always pay or job or career. Then you think about buying a house, but, omg, it's so expensive, so you continue to work. Then with utilities and conservancy increasing all the time, it gets like really tiring.
Then you think about kids. day care, sick days, tuition, time to spend with them, school books etc. All these things need money and it's not cheap getting these in Sg.
Then I remember my mum wanting to pass down my primary school stuff to my brother (we're 4 years apart) but the syllabus was always changing so always have to buy new ones. Everytime it's $100+ just for the textbooks. Want to use second-hand also no chance. The govt change syllabus right?
Medical is also expensive. Either you wait for the whole morning at the polyclinic or you pay for the private doctor. So better not get sick.
It's like one long struggle. Tell my kid must take turn.
Kind of worry about I reach old age. -
Oppsgal:
haha i was telling my hubs that next time if my kid doesn't come and borrow money from me, i will be very contented :xedfingers: , let alone ask him to support me.
I have already started to tell my kid, at toddler age, that next time when working, must help to support me (SAHM) as now at home help to look after kid. Tell my kid must take turn.
Kind of worry about I reach old age.
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