Government, what you really want us to do?

[resgmom]

pirate:

I suspect the children were not born in Singapore, that's why must register. And probably because Mr Salleh never studied Singapore's Constitution (surprise!), he failed to do that within one year.


If one reads Articles 121, 122, 123 and 129 of the Singapore Constitution, one realizes that there are different classes of Singapore Citizens with different rights. It is not true that all citizens are equal. :faint:

I am curious and looked at the http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;ident=cb6a2b64-73d3-4839-a834-d31803e8a05f;query=Status%3Acurinforce%20Type%3Aact,sl%20Content%3A%22singapore%22%20Content%3A%22constitution%22;rec=1;resUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fstatutes.agc.gov.sg%2Faol%2Fsearch%2Fsummary%2Fresults.w3p%3Bquery%3DStatus%253Acurinforce%2520Type%253Aact,sl%2520Content%253A%2522singapore%2522%2520Content%253A%2522constitution%2522#P1X-.. There are different types of Singapore citizens (by birth, registration, etc), but I don't see any mentioning of the different rights? Please enlighten me?

[MMM]

Imami:

Indeed, I agree - what's the point if parents just dump them at grandparents' place? I hv two colleagues on such arrangement. The kid now three and a half, has been at grandma's place since birth. He only return to his home on weekends. During the weekdays, he stay at grandma's home.


I find this a very uncomfortable scenario.

Another colleague, due to give birth this dec, will also be having such arrangement - either leave at nanny's place from Sunday night to Friday evening or at grandma's place, same thing check in Sunday night check our fri evening.

When I asked her the reason, she said because she could not imagine a life of not enough sleep. She said, if her sleep quality/quantity is compromised, she can't work. When I ask her, haven't she expected this prior to planning for a child ( someone\" accident\" then have a child, this couple plan for one)? She said no, never thought of it. :faint:

I supposed each family has their own arrangement and there is no right or wrong so long as they are comfortable and think it is the best arrangement for all.

My 3 kids were also weekends kids when they were younger. They would stay over at my mum's place from sunday night to friday evening. We would visit them every evening. We did that due to logistics reasons. They only moved home when they are in P1. Have we as a family suffered in terms of bonding???? I don't think so. They are close to grand ma and to us as well. As parents, we are also very involved.

So I don't think having such \"weekends kids\" arrangement means the parents are \"irresponsible\".

[Imami]

MMM:

Imami:

Indeed, I agree - what's the point if parents just dump them at grandparents' place? I hv two colleagues on such arrangement. The kid now three and a half, has been at grandma's place since birth. He only return to his home on weekends. During the weekdays, he stay at grandma's home.


I find this a very uncomfortable scenario.

Another colleague, due to give birth this dec, will also be having such arrangement - either leave at nanny's place from Sunday night to Friday evening or at grandma's place, same thing check in Sunday night check our fri evening.

When I asked her the reason, she said because she could not imagine a life of not enough sleep. She said, if her sleep quality/quantity is compromised, she can't work. When I ask her, haven't she expected this prior to planning for a child ( someone\" accident\" then have a child, this couple plan for one)? She said no, never thought of it. :faint:

I supposed each family has their own arrangement and there is no right or wrong so long as they are comfortable and think it is the best arrangement for all.

My 3 kids were also weekends kids when they were younger. They would stay over at my mum's place from sunday night to friday evening. We would visit them every evening. We did that due to logistics reasons. They only moved home when they are in P1. Have we as a family suffered in terms of bonding???? I don't think so. They are close to grand ma and to us as well. As parents, we are also very involved.

So I don't think having such \"weekends kids\" arrangement means the parents are \"irresponsible\".

Did I mention right or wrong or responsible/irresponsible?

[MMM]

Imami:

Did I mention right or wrong or responsible/irresponsible?

You mentioned that you find it a uncomfortable scenario and you also gave examples of your colleagues who \"dump\" kids at grandparents' place.

I just wanted to offer alternative views and that it works for us. So this might be the best arrangement for some families.

[Funz]

MMM:

Imami:

Indeed, I agree - what's the point if parents just dump them at grandparents' place? I hv two colleagues on such arrangement. The kid now three and a half, has been at grandma's place since birth. He only return to his home on weekends. During the weekdays, he stay at grandma's home.


I find this a very uncomfortable scenario.

Another colleague, due to give birth this dec, will also be having such arrangement - either leave at nanny's place from Sunday night to Friday evening or at grandma's place, same thing check in Sunday night check our fri evening.

When I asked her the reason, she said because she could not imagine a life of not enough sleep. She said, if her sleep quality/quantity is compromised, she can't work. When I ask her, haven't she expected this prior to planning for a child ( someone\" accident\" then have a child, this couple plan for one)? She said no, never thought of it. :faint:

I supposed each family has their own arrangement and there is no right or wrong so long as they are comfortable and think it is the best arrangement for all.

My 3 kids were also weekends kids when they were younger. They would stay over at my mum's place from sunday night to friday evening. We would visit them every evening. We did that due to logistics reasons. They only moved home when they are in P1. Have we as a family suffered in terms of bonding???? I don't think so. They are close to grand ma and to us as well. As parents, we are also very involved.

So I don't think having such \"weekends kids\" arrangement means the parents are \"irresponsible\".

I agree. Do not be too judgemental.

I chose to put my kids with my parents from Sunday night to Friday, bringing them home only on Friday nights to spend the weekend with me until they were about 2+ yrs old. I do not live next door to my parents and I think it will be even more disruptive for the child to have to follow my schedule and be ferried here and there every morning and night. And if I over stretch myself, I will not only not be able to perform at work, I will not be able to give my child 100% when needed.

And like MMM, no compromise at all in bonding and the up side, my parents and my kids have a special bond too.

A lucky thing too that your friend did not overthink things else even lesser kids for Singapore.

[pirate]

resgmom:

pirate:

I suspect the children were not born in Singapore, that's why must register. And probably because Mr Salleh never studied Singapore's Constitution (surprise!), he failed to do that within one year.


If one reads Articles 121, 122, 123 and 129 of the Singapore Constitution, one realizes that there are different classes of Singapore Citizens with different rights. It is not true that all citizens are equal. :faint:

I am curious and looked at the http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;ident=cb6a2b64-73d3-4839-a834-d31803e8a05f;query=Status%3Acurinforce%20Type%3Aact,sl%20Content%3A%22singapore%22%20Content%3A%22constitution%22;rec=1;resUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fstatutes.agc.gov.sg%2Faol%2Fsearch%2Fsummary%2Fresults.w3p%3Bquery%3DStatus%253Acurinforce%2520Type%253Aact,sl%2520Content%253A%2522singapore%2522%2520Content%253A%2522constitution%2522#P1X-.. There are different types of Singapore citizens (by birth, registration, etc), but I don't see any mentioning of the different rights? Please enlighten me?

Read more carefully.

Examples:

Art 122(1)(b): Citizens by naturalization do not appear to be able to pass on citizenship by descent to their children. So, if both parents are citizens by naturalization, they must have their baby in Singapore if they want the child to be a Singapore citizen!!!

Art 122(2)(b)(ii): Citizens by registration cannot pass on citizenship to their children under certain circumstances.

Art 122(3): Citizens by descent cannot pass on citizensip to their children under certain circumstances.

Art 122(4): A citizen by descent will lose his/her citizenship if he/she does not or forgets to do something within 12 months of turning 21. Citizens by birth don't have to do this.

Article 122 uses language of \"a person born outside Singapore shall not be a citizen...\", but in effect it means the same thing as \"if you have a baby outside Singapore, your baby shall not be a citizen...\"

Art 129: Citizens by registration or naturalization can be deprived of citizenship under certain circumstances. Citizens by birth cannot.

:faint:

[Oppsgal]

limlim:

pirate:

Somebody wrote in to the ST today that they have to pay foreigner rates giving birth at KK because the wife is foreigner, even though the baby is SC. The hospital reply is soli lah, it's MOH rule.


Doesn't MOH know that foreign spouses of SCs remain 'foreign' and cannot get PR usually because the SC spouse is deemed not likely to be able to financially support the foreign spouse? In other words, poor.

That's why, no point going to KK, just go to the nearest private hospital lah..

Anyway, the mother is foreigner rate, but the child shd be citizen rate right (baby ward charges etc)?

Also, regarding the PR.. income is not the only consideration.

There are cases where a high income couple were not successful because the length of stay could be too short etc..

Maybe the PR needs to stay for a longer period? Heard of somebody (citizen) married to a foreigner wife, but wife not allow to work in Singapore.

[mamago]

Funz:

MMM:

[quote=\"Imami\"] Indeed, I agree - what's the point if parents just dump them at grandparents' place? I hv two colleagues on such arrangement. The kid now three and a half, has been at grandma's place since birth. He only return to his home on weekends. During the weekdays, he stay at grandma's home.


I find this a very uncomfortable scenario.

Another colleague, due to give birth this dec, will also be having such arrangement - either leave at nanny's place from Sunday night to Friday evening or at grandma's place, same thing check in Sunday night check our fri evening.

When I asked her the reason, she said because she could not imagine a life of not enough sleep. She said, if her sleep quality/quantity is compromised, she can't work. When I ask her, haven't she expected this prior to planning for a child ( someone\" accident\" then have a child, this couple plan for one)? She said no, never thought of it. :faint:

I supposed each family has their own arrangement and there is no right or wrong so long as they are comfortable and think it is the best arrangement for all.

My 3 kids were also weekends kids when they were younger. They would stay over at my mum's place from sunday night to friday evening. We would visit them every evening. We did that due to logistics reasons. They only moved home when they are in P1. Have we as a family suffered in terms of bonding???? I don't think so. They are close to grand ma and to us as well. As parents, we are also very involved.

So I don't think having such \"weekends kids\" arrangement means the parents are \"irresponsible\".

I agree. Do not be too judgemental.

I chose to put my kids with my parents from Sunday night to Friday, bringing them home only on Friday nights to spend the weekend with me until they were about 2+ yrs old. I do not live next door to my parents and I think it will be even more disruptive for the child to have to follow my schedule and be ferried here and there every morning and night. And if I over stretch myself, I will not only not be able to perform at work, I will not be able to give my child 100% when needed.

And like MMM, no compromise at all in bonding and the up side, my parents and my kids have a special bond too.

A lucky thing too that your friend did not overthink things else even lesser kids for Singapore.[/quote]
Now... these are 2 good post. :goodpost: :goodpost:

Unfortunately, some people do think that they are more superior than others...

It's either do it their way, otherwise it'll be deemed it as \"substandard\".

Typical type of \"the world according to them\"....

[pirate]

Oppsgal:

Maybe the PR needs to stay for a longer period? Heard of somebody (citizen) married to a foreigner wife, but wife not allow to work in Singapore.

Once the wife is PR, she is allowed to work. What she has is probably a long-term social visit pass.

The reality on the ground is because the wife is not a PR, the family has to pay private rates even at KK. So, unless the Singaporean husband is rich, the family will probably deliver the baby back in the wife's country where she is likely to enjoy subsidized rates in a public hospital. The baby will then most likely acquire citizenship by birth of the wife's country. The Singaporean husband, unless he is lawyer, would probably not know that he has to register the baby with the Singapore consulate within one year from birth for the baby to have Singapore citizenship by descent.

There is a fall-back provision in Art 124 of the Constitution whereby the Government may register a child as a citizen of Singapore if the child is the child of a citizen of Singapore and is resident in Singapore. But if the family is not rich, how can they be reasonably expected to bring the child to live in Singapore when the child is neither a citizen or PR? On another long-term social visit pass? What if the child or mother gets sick? Is the family supposed to pay private rates for all those visits to a pediatrican for vaccinations?

And if baby no. 2 comes along, the mother goes back to wherever she came from again...? Child no. 1 follows mama back, and is no longer resident in Singapore. And then they are all accused of not keeping close ties with Singapore?

It's kind of a Catch-22 situation, especially when nobody but the ICAS seem to know what the criteria are.

Voila! In the end, Singapore loses another baby to the wife's country.

And that's how policies and red-tape can cascade on the ground to reach unintended consequences.

[Oppsgal]

pirate:

Oppsgal:

Maybe the PR needs to stay for a longer period? Heard of somebody (citizen) married to a foreigner wife, but wife not allow to work in Singapore.

Once the wife is PR, she is allowed to work. What she has is probably a long-term social visit pass.

The reality on the ground is because the wife is not a PR, the family has to pay private rates even at KK. So, unless the Singaporean husband is rich, the family will probably deliver the baby back in the wife's country where she is likely to enjoy subsidized rates in a public hospital. The baby will then most likely acquire citizenship by birth of the wife's country. The Singaporean husband, unless he is lawyer, would probably not know that he has to register the baby with the Singapore consulate within one year from birth for the baby to have Singapore citizenship by descent.

There is a fall-back provision in Art 124 of the Constitution whereby the Government may register a child as a citizen of Singapore if the child is the child of a citizen of Singapore and is resident in Singapore. But if the family is not rich, how can they be reasonably expected to bring the child to live in Singapore when the child is neither a citizen or PR? On another long-term social visit pass? What if the child or mother gets sick? Is the family supposed to pay private rates for all those visits to a pediatrican for vaccinations?

And if baby no. 2 comes along, the mother goes back to wherever she came from again...? Child no. 1 follows mama back, and is no longer resident in Singapore. And then they are all accused of not keeping close ties with Singapore?

It's kind of a Catch-22 situation, especially when nobody but the ICAS seem to know what the criteria are.

Voila! In the end, Singapore loses another baby to the wife's country.

And that's how policies and red-tape can cascade on the ground to reach unintended consequences.

Got good and bad.

Some might just married to be the citizen without having to stay here, if no such rules and then divorce?