All About Choosing Piano Schools And Teachers

[phankao]

chamonix:

I did ask her if she wanted to give up on her music instruments and focus on her singing. (No joke, she has to spend about 2 hours (after school) twice a week in school for choir.) She didn't want to give up any. My mantra to her is that she has to continue to put in time for practice if she wants to continue with the lessons.:

2hrs/2x per week is the norm for choir. Or rather, the minimum. My dd (my eldest), was in choir from p3 plus also in Brownies. The choir hours would be a minimum of 4hrs each week to 9hrs each week. She ended up doing choir until JC2. But no, she does not do \"voice\" lessons. *haha*.

I think my boys who were in orchestras spent more hours on their CCAs. Minimum 6hrs/week (3hrs/2x per wk), which can go up to 9hrs after school. They also had daily morning practices - 1hr each early weekday morning. One of my boys also had additional 2hrs of private lessons by an instructor engaged by the school, on top of his own private instrumental lessons.

Quite tiring, but my boys enjoyed it. It's exciting, I guess! Best of all, it teaches teamwork and gives more meaning to working on their instruments. AT least it's not so lonely in music-making too.

I guess most children don't get to do ensembles if they are doing piano, unless they are in SEcondary schools and do piano ensembles as part of their electives, for eg. I've seen many very interesting and very fun piano ensemble performance items in my elder son's school during their concerts.

[metz]

phankao:

chamonix:

I did ask her if she wanted to give up on her music instruments and focus on her singing. (No joke, she has to spend about 2 hours (after school) twice a week in school for choir.) She didn't want to give up any. My mantra to her is that she has to continue to put in time for practice if she wants to continue with the lessons.:

2hrs/2x per week is the norm for choir. Or rather, the minimum. My dd (my eldest), was in choir from p3 plus also in Brownies. The choir hours would be a minimum of 4hrs each week to 9hrs each week. She ended up doing choir until JC2. But no, she does not do \"voice\" lessons. *haha*.

She is in P1 this year. I expect the hours to increase in future. On top of that, she is also doing 1 hr ensemble at her music school weekly. Hopefully, she can work hard enough to join the Orchestra next year. I have put her ballet on hold until my hubby comes back. Too much driving for me. lol Praying that she wouldn't add on more CCAs. Actually, she's also into sports..., has been hinting to me she wants to do swimming, gym and continues with her tennis... *faint*

phankao:

I think my boys who were in orchestras spent more hours on their CCAs. Minimum 6hrs/week (3hrs/2x per wk), which can go up to 9hrs after school. They also had daily morning practices - 1hr each early weekday morning. One of my boys also had additional 2hrs of private lessons by an instructor engaged by the school, on top of his own private instrumental lessons.

Quite tiring, but my boys enjoyed it. It's exciting, I guess! Best of all, it teaches teamwork and gives more meaning to working on their instruments. AT least it's not so lonely in music-making too.

I guess most children don't get to do ensembles if they are doing piano, unless they are in SEcondary schools and do piano ensembles as part of their electives, for eg. I've seen many very interesting and very fun piano ensemble performance items in my elder son's school during their concerts.

Your sons' primary school has orchestra? That's rare. Most primary schools have ensembles only.

Indeed, playing together is such a great joy. My son loves hearing how all the strings sound together. Really envy your sons having such great time! Piano ensembles - you mean a few pianos playing together? That's really something to look forward to.

[phankao]

chamonix:

She is in P1 this year. I expect the hours to increase in future. On top of that, she is also doing 1 hr ensemble at her music school weekly. Hopefully, she can work hard enough to join the Orchestra next year. I have put her ballet on hold until my hubby comes back. Too much driving for me. lol Praying that she wouldn't add on more CCAs. Actually, she's also into sports..., has been hinting to me she wants to do swimming, gym and continues with her tennis... *faint*

Hhahah - back when my daughter was in pri sch, there was no CCA other than Gym/Dance in P1/P2. Almost seems like a generation away now.

chamonix:

Your sons' primary school has orchestra? That's rare. Most primary schools have ensembles only.

My elder boy was in pri string orch. They had around 30-40 mbrs. Reasonable size. But yes, at SYF, it's known as String Ensemble Category. My boy joined from P2 and only started learning violin at start of P2 because he wanted to join Strings. He auditioned successfully after learning violin for 5mths. My younger boy's was chinese orch where he was the concertmster - huge group. Like 70-90, possibly 100 mbrs.

Both these boys are already in Sec school now though. They both started music only in p1/p2, and don't play piano at all.

chamonix:

Piano ensembles - you mean a few pianos playing together? That's really something to look forward to.

Generally no more than 2 pianos for them. Can be 4hands at one piano, or 4hands at 2 pianos, or 8hands at 2 pianos! They do very interesting pieces. Ensembles are one of the aspects of A-level music, so for them, they start training for ensembles from secondary onwards, in view of the future A-level syllabus. Well, some students do end up not continuing to do music as a subject when they enter their JC years though. What I've seen at concerts are fun nevertheless!

Apart from piano, they have all sort of other ensembles that they put together on their own, depending on what instrumentalists there are in the music programme.

[Dreamaurora]

chamonix:

Dreamaurora,


After going through your post a couple of times, realisation suddenly struck me like a twenty pound sledgehammer - you are sharing your view as a music teacher!

Thanks for the sharing. It is the part I left unspoken. What you mentioned would be something I keep a lookout for in a music teacher. A teacher who is able to track a student's progress, help set goals, challenge and motivate him/her to greater heights, besides imparting music knowledge.

The route I have chosen for my kids differs from the norm. In fact, my current violin teacher notices that I am different from the normal parents. During our first lesson, she asked me what I hoped my kids could achieve with her. Literally translated, what grade did I wish my kids to achieve with her. Frankly, I told her the truth, from beginner and we shall see how they progress. The important thing would be good fundamentals. I have no desire for them to learn for exams. Rather, my objective is for them to have a good music education/training that will allow them to play the songs they want decently.

I am not sure if this route is suitable for all children. For one, my son loves music and has been the one who requested for violin lessons. He already has in mind the songs he wants to learn and play (nope, he doesn't go by grade). His piano teacher played him some diploma level songs (which he loves) and told him she wished that he would be playing those pieces one day. When he first started violin recently, it was terrible. But along the way, he didn't give up. His violin teacher challenged him and he delivered so far. In fact, his violin teacher mentioned he could be playing 1st violin next year in the music school's orchestra. (Btw, he enjoys playing in a group.) All these fuelled him to put in additional effort and hard work. Teachers are really crucial in this area.

Perhaps, one can see those acts and encouragement as 'carrots'? But really, to me, it's like studying. I wish for my kids to study because they enjoy soaking knowledge, learning new things. Definitely not just studying for exams. Likewise, music, I wish for my kids to learn because they enjoy playing (and playing well). They have to find it rewarding themselves to want to do it. To quote my son's words, he wants to learn beyond diploma because he wants to play the pieces he likes to his heart's content.

As for pushing or not pushing to their limits, I have always struggled within myself. But looking at my daughter, I think I may have made a right decision. Till now, she has not decided which music instrument she truly likes. Recently, she has been selected by the school choir through an audition. Her teacher told me she has a talent in singing. She likes dancing too. So, which area should I push her to her limits? It would be a very difficult decision for me to make on her behalf. I did ask her if she wanted to give up on her music instruments and focus on her singing. (No joke, she has to spend about 2 hours (after school) twice a week in school for choir.) She didn't want to give up any. My mantra to her is that she has to continue to put in time for practice if she wants to continue with the lessons.

Certainly, I agree with you whole-heartedly that learning music instruments (in fact, anything) can be tough and tiring at times. I do acknowledge their efforts and hard work. Fortunately, my kids are rather low maintenance as they require only hugs and lots of hugs.

I will address first the issue whether should you push your kids to the limits. In my personal opinion, the answer should be no, no matter what the activity. Let me explain why. Like what I have said earlier students should ideally achieve for a high standard themselves. This high standard should be determined by their teachers or professionals who will be in the best position to know their strengths and weaknesses. Parents should support and provide encouragement, but never institute pressure on the kids. Leave the pressuring to the teachers and students themselves.

When parents attempt to push their kids because they believe their kids to be more capable than they actually are, disasters often happen. I have lost track of the amount of times parents have said to me \"I think my kid is talented\". And these parents often expect incredible results out of their kids and put intense pressure on them. If you read the NAFA Young Talent thread you will realise that some parents there actually caned their kids to make them practice. This is really saddening in my opinion. That is why whenever I interview prospective students I always make clear my requirements to the parents. I will also be brutally honest about their children's strengths and weaknesses. Some parents apparently took issue when I deemed their children not as good as they thought to be. But hey, if they can't respect my opinion, they should probably find another teacher who will say the things they want to hear. I always make it clear to the parents major decisions such as whether they are allowed to take exams ultimately rest with me. And I had for a few times had to make some difficult decisions, but the parents respected my judgements. This should be the way piano lessons are run; parents should never dictate what their children should achieve.

I think it's great that your son loves music and aspire to play those diploma pieces. That can be his long term goal: to successfully perform a Diploma concert program. You will want also to get his teacher to lay down what will be required to achieve that long term goal and set the intermediary goals first. A lot of students have big dreams and goals, but once they learn the reality and effort actually required to achieve it they tend to shrink and give up. And if they have been so accustomed to praises such as 'oh, you're so talented', they may get extremely demoralised when negative criticisms started pouring in; diploma and master teachers can be very brutal and strict. Too many people use the word 'talent' too casually in a superficial way; this is why I refrain from using the word 'talented' when praising my students. One of the first steps to become a good musician is to be honest about our own capabilities and progress.

Your kids are on the right track and they are exploring as many things as possible, and they are very fortunate to have a supportive mom in you. I would suggest you let them be and continue giving them encouragement.

[PhoBIA]

Dreamaurora:

I will address first the issue whether should you push your kids to the limits. In my personal opinion, the answer should be no, no matter what the activity. Let me explain why. Like what I have said earlier students should ideally achieve for a high standard themselves. This high standard should be determined by their teachers or professionals who will be in the best position to know their strengths and weaknesses. Parents should support and provide encouragement, but never institute pressure on the kids. Leave the pressuring to the teachers and students themselves.

When parents attempt to push their kids because they believe their kids to be more capable than they actually are, disasters often happen. I have lost track of the amount of times parents have said to me \"I think my kid is talented\". And these parents often expect incredible results out of their kids and put intense pressure on them. If you read the NAFA Young Talent thread you will realise that some parents there actually caned their kids to make them practice. This is really saddening in my opinion. That is why whenever I interview prospective students I always make clear my requirements to the parents. I will also be brutally honest about their children's strengths and weaknesses. Some parents apparently took issue when I deemed their children not as good as they thought to be. But hey, if they can't respect my opinion, they should probably find another teacher who will say the things they want to hear. I always make it clear to the parents major decisions such as whether they are allowed to take exams ultimately rest with me. And I had for a few times had to make some difficult decisions, but the parents respected my judgements. This should be the way piano lessons are run; parents should never dictate what their children should achieve.

I think it's great that your son loves music and aspire to play those diploma pieces. That can be his long term goal: to successfully perform a Diploma concert program. You will want also to get his teacher to lay down what will be required to achieve that long term goal and set the intermediary goals first. A lot of students have big dreams and goals, but once they learn the reality and effort actually required to achieve it they tend to shrink and give up. And if they have been so accustomed to praises such as 'oh, you're so talented', they may get extremely demoralised when negative criticisms started pouring in; diploma and master teachers can be very brutal and strict. Too many people use the word 'talent' too casually in a superficial way; this is why I refrain from using the word 'talented' when praising my students. One of the first steps to become a good musician is to be honest about our own capabilities and progress.

Your kids are on the right track and they are exploring as many things as possible, and they are very fortunate to have a supportive mom in you. I would suggest you let them be and continue giving them encouragement.

Agree with the highlighted parts.

[metz]

phankao:

Hhahah - back when my daughter was in pri sch, there was no CCA other than Gym/Dance in P1/P2. Almost seems like a generation away now.

Did the students have to audition for dance during your daughter's days? Nowadays, auditions seems to be very common. The kids have to clear auditions to join certain CCAs since P1. Gone are the days where a student could join any CCA they fancy.

phankao:

My elder boy was in pri string orch. They had around 30-40 mbrs. Reasonable size. But yes, at SYF, it's known as String Ensemble Category. My boy joined from P2 and only started learning violin at start of P2 because he wanted to join Strings. He auditioned successfully after learning violin for 5mths. My younger boy's was chinese orch where he was the concertmster - huge group. Like 70-90, possibly 100 mbrs.

Both these boys are already in Sec school now though. They both started music only in p1/p2, and don't play piano at all.

Those I know with piano background tend to start their kids on the instrument early. I noticed you start your littlest son early in music instruments. Is there any reason why you didn't start the older ones on piano when they were still preschoolers?

phankao:

Generally no more than 2 pianos for them. Can be 4hands at one piano, or 4hands at 2 pianos, or 8hands at 2 pianos! They do very interesting pieces. Ensembles are one of the aspects of A-level music, so for them, they start training for ensembles from secondary onwards, in view of the future A-level syllabus. Well, some students do end up not continuing to do music as a subject when they enter their JC years though. What I've seen at concerts are fun nevertheless!

Apart from piano, they have all sort of other ensembles that they put together on their own, depending on what instrumentalists there are in the music programme.

I must say that secondary life nowadays is definitely more fun than during my time!

[metz]

Dreamaurora:

I will address first the issue whether should you push your kids to the limits. In my personal opinion, the answer should be no, no matter what the activity. Let me explain why. Like what I have said earlier students should ideally achieve for a high standard themselves. This high standard should be determined by their teachers or professionals who will be in the best position to know their strengths and weaknesses. Parents should support and provide encouragement, but never institute pressure on the kids. Leave the pressuring to the teachers and students themselves.

When parents attempt to push their kids because they believe their kids to be more capable than they actually are, disasters often happen. I have lost track of the amount of times parents have said to me \"I think my kid is talented\". And these parents often expect incredible results out of their kids and put intense pressure on them. If you read the NAFA Young Talent thread you will realise that some parents there actually caned their kids to make them practice. This is really saddening in my opinion. That is why whenever I interview prospective students I always make clear my requirements to the parents. I will also be brutally honest about their children's strengths and weaknesses. Some parents apparently took issue when I deemed their children not as good as they thought to be. But hey, if they can't respect my opinion, they should probably find another teacher who will say the things they want to hear. I always make it clear to the parents major decisions such as whether they are allowed to take exams ultimately rest with me. And I had for a few times had to make some difficult decisions, but the parents respected my judgements. This should be the way piano lessons are run; parents should never dictate what their children should achieve.

No doubt you have encountered parents who make unreasonable demands on their kids' progress. I don't deny their existence. However, not all parents fall into this group. When I talked about pushing my kids to limits, I do not mean to push or stretch my then preschoolers out of my own judgement. In fact, I meant following their teachers' suggestions to do so. For instance, I would never be able to achieve the level of involvement you expected of your students' parents (as mentioned in your previous posts about your k2 taking grade 5 exam). In the same manner, I believe those parents in the NAFA thread are pushing their kids not because they thought their kids to be more capable than they actually are. Rather, they are reacting to the NAFA teachers' professional expectations. As for leaving the pressuring to just the teachers and students, I could never to do that when my children were preschoolers. Neither can I do it now. I appreciate the teachers updating me on my kids' progress constantly. Music is only one part of their lives. As a parent, I would still need to ensure my kids are having a balanced life in all areas.

Dreamaurora:

I think it's great that your son loves music and aspire to play those diploma pieces. That can be his long term goal: to successfully perform a Diploma concert program. You will want also to get his teacher to lay down what will be required to achieve that long term goal and set the intermediary goals first.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll keep that in mind. But I have faith in his piano teacher to guide him well in the goal setting and achieving his dreams.

Dreamaurora:

A lot of students have big dreams and goals, but once they learn the reality and effort actually required to achieve it they tend to shrink and give up. And if they have been so accustomed to praises such as 'oh, you're so talented', they may get extremely demoralised when negative criticisms started pouring in; diploma and master teachers can be very brutal and strict.
Too many people use the word 'talent' too casually in a superficial way; this is why I refrain from using the word 'talented' when praising my students. One of the first steps to become a good musician is to be honest about our own capabilities and progress.

On the contrary, the music teachers we have encountered so far stress on hard work and more hard work. The piano teacher told me that my son should be practising at least 2 hours daily at the level he is now. Potential without hard work will amount to nothing. Do most music teachers indulge in excessive praises? If that's the case, I agree with you that they could be doing their students a great disservice.

Dreamaurora:

Your kids are on the right track and they are exploring as many things as possible, and they are very fortunate to have a supportive mom in you. I would suggest you let them be and continue giving them encouragement.

Thank you.

[jce]

Personally I reckon praise should only be given when there is improvement from where the child was previously. Or when you know some considerable work has been put in. As the child goes higher and higher in level, the improvement is more marginal and less frequent, unless the child is a hard worker and puts in a lot of time and effort into practice. But school life here in local schools ain’t easy so putting in, for example, 2 hours every day for a grade 5 kid is almost impossible. And that is what’s needed for technicality to really take off.

[sleepy]

jce:

school life here in local schools ain't easy so putting in, for example, 2 hours every day for a grade 5 kid is almost impossible.

Precisely!

My dd2 hardly practised an hour a day. In fact, on some days, she doesn't even had time to touch the piano. Demand of school work and tuitions :faint:

Time is even tighter for my dd1 who plays the cello. She stays back in school so often that I had to ask her teacher to come alternate week! In between those 2 weeks, I'm happy if she gets to practise at least thrice. I asked her if she would like to drop cello since there's really no time for practice. However, she insists to continue learning. She is the one who decided to learn cello & requested for a teacher, so I guess the passion is there.

I always wonder how others managed to cope with intensive instrument practice and school workload. Keep hearing from dd2's piano teacher that her other students completed grade 8 by p4. One or two even started diploma in upper primary!

Confirmed mission impossible for my dd2. She's still learning grade 5 at p2. Teacher is far from satisfied with her progress....

My only expectation of dd2 is she doesn't get kicked out by her piano teacher

jce:

And that is what's needed for technicality to really take off.

What do you mean?

[sunflower2005]

just curious

how can the younger child fingers long enough to play e note for one octave ?