Population woes

[pirate]

WeiHan:

pirate:

[quote=\"Daddy D\"]Fresh SG grad asking for $3K, or

Fresh S Pass holder asking for $2K...

Neither. I will hire a mature SC non-graduate with work experience at somewhere between $2-3k. He/she will need less training and is less likely to job hop. A degree is over-rated.

Yours must be a low value added job that don't require the workers to find relevant information independently, solve the relevant differential equations, create mathematical models and do computer simulations for the problems.[/quote]Ya lor. I am actually surprised how many non graduates can actually find relevant information independently. And you are correct. We don't \"do differential equations, create mathematical models and do computer simulations\". We just need our staff to deal with real products, real market conditions, real legislation, real clients, real cash and real accounts.

What does \"value added\" mean? If it does not add to the bottom line, there is no value add.

You mean to tell me all those differential equations cannot be solved, all those mathematical models cannot be created and all those simulations cannot be run from computers in Shenzhen, Manila or JB?

[pirate]

firefly38:

'Pirated' 是 'Pirate' 的前世。。。 :shock: :siam:

No, no, no. I came first. There is only one original pirate. The other one har, is... pirated, and hence not the real pirate.

[WeiHan]

pirate:

Ya lor. I am actually surprised how many non graduates can actually find relevant information independently. And you are correct. We don't \"do differential equations, create mathematical models and do computer simulations\". We just need our staff to deal with real products, real market conditions, real legislation, real clients, real cash and real accounts.

What does \"value added\" mean? If it does not add to the bottom line, there is no value add.

You mean to tell me all those differential equations cannot be solved, all those mathematical models cannot be created and all those simulations cannot be run from computers in Shenzhen, Manila or JB?

You were talking about building rockets and nuclear bombs mah.... All these definitely require solving complex equations, design, computer simulations that are skills that is learnt in a university. So I just think maybe your company is not making these high end products loh.

These works can be done else where but this is not the point here. The point is that you were saying you can replace a graduate position with a non graduate.

[iFirefly]

pirate:

firefly38:

'Pirated' 是 'Pirate' 的前世。。。 :shock: :siam:

No, no, no. I came first. There is only one original pirate. The other one har, is... pirated, and hence not the real pirate.

冒牌海盗。。。 :yikes: :yikes:

Ok Ok.. Spiderman & Venom, can??? :shock: :siam:

[mamago]

firefly38:

pirate:

[quote=\"firefly38\"]'Pirated' 是 'Pirate' 的前世。。。 :shock: :siam:

No, no, no. I came first. There is only one original pirate. The other one har, is... pirated, and hence not the real pirate.

冒牌海盗。。。 :yikes: :yikes:

Ok Ok.. Spiderman & Venom, can??? :shock: :siam:[/quote]
Hahaha.... *LIKE* :rahrah:

[pirate]

WeiHan:

You were talking about building rockets and nuclear bombs mah.... All these definitely require solving complex equations, design, computer simulations that are skills that is learnt in a university. So I just think maybe your company is not making these high end products loh.


These works can be done else where but this is not the point here. The point is that you were saying you can replace a graduate position with a non graduate.

No lah. I was only replying to a question that ask which one will I hire, a fresh SG graduate at $3,000 or a FT at $2,000. I am quite sure neither of them can build rockets or nucleur power plants. Hermes handbags also very 'high-end' and high 'value added' leh. Don't need a graduate to sew them together or flaunt them on a catwalk.

In many commercial entities (unlike professional firms like law, accountancy, architecture, medicine etc), there is no rigid line between 'graduate' and 'non-graduate' positions. How to draw such a line when the big boss maybe only has an O level cert? Maybe civil service different.

Maybe it's a \"us\" (graduates) and \"the rest of them\" (non-graduates) mentality? The point I was making is that merely having a degree does not entitle one to a 'good' job. There are many other personal attributes that must be considered.

[limlim]

Pple talking about jobs requiring degree holder, and comparing local grad against FT (which in this context should posses a degree from foreign university)… not whether to employ grad or non-grad.

[pirate]

limlim:

Pple talking about jobs requiring degree holder, and comparing local grad against FT (which in this context should posses a degree from foreign university).. not whether to employ grad or non-grad.

Well, for that kind of position, I am not likely to employ an FT fresh from a university I have never heard of even if the FT is $1,000 a month cheaper (no chance to impress at the interview here because the CV will end up in the bin).

But if the FT has a good degree from a reputable foreign university, then the fresh local grad will have a problem.

And if the FT is a PR with a good degree from a reputable foreign university who grew up in Singapore, then the local grad asking $1,000 more is not likely to get the job unless he/she is able to demonstrate that he/she is so much better than the other person.

So it all boils down to what kind of degree and what category of FT people are talking about.

[verykiasumummy]

pirate:

limlim:

Pple talking about jobs requiring degree holder, and comparing local grad against FT (which in this context should posses a degree from foreign university).. not whether to employ grad or non-grad.

Well, for that kind of position, I am not likely to employ an FT fresh from a university I have never heard of even if the FT is $1,000 a month cheaper (no chance to impress at the interview here because the CV will end up in the bin).

But if the FT has a good degree from a reputable foreign university, then the fresh local grad will have a problem.

And if the FT is a PR with a good degree from a reputable foreign university who grew up in Singapore, then the local grad asking $1,000 more is not likely to get the job unless he/she is able to demonstrate that he/she is so much better than the other person.

So it all boils down to what kind of degree and what category of FT people are talking about.

so it voices down to :

for example
junior executive opening

candidate A - good local degree, no work experience, asking for $3k.
candidate B - good foreign degree, no work experience, asking for $2k.

the choice is not about apple/orange comparision, it is the case where apple/apple comparison, the local candidate loses out because of the expected salary.

[pirate]

verykiasumummy:

so it voices down to :


for example
junior executive opening

candidate A - good local degree, no work experience, asking for $3k.
candidate B - good foreign degree, no work experience, asking for $2k.

the choice is not about apple/orange comparision, it is the case where apple/apple comparison, the local candidate loses out because of the expected salary.

At a 40-50% cost premium, yah. 10-20%, probably no. That assumes that I have not already used up my dependency ceiling or S-pass sub-quota on lower level staff.

But on an apple/apple comparison, we not talking about an incompetent FT.