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[kathyh]

Thanks, may i know How are things going during ABRSM exam, if sing solfege for echo singing?

Dreamaurora:

kathyh:

So we sing Fa sharp or Fa when come across black key notes?

Fi.

Just search for solfege in Wikipedia. There is a chart of solfege there.

[kathyh]

My child's teacher is from china, and she asked us to sing 升Fa (F#), or 降Ti (Bb), which makes me very confused, and in Yamaha, we were asked to sing in this way, say for this chord, \"Fa sharp Do Re (F# C D)\"


which way is the standard way, then?

Dreamaurora:

kathyh:

So we sing Fa sharp or Fa when come across black key notes?

Fi.

Just search for solfege in Wikipedia. There is a chart of solfege there.

[Dreamaurora]

kathyh:

Thanks, may i know How are things going during ABRSM exam, if sing solfege for echo singing?

Any syllabe will do, though alternating between 'ta' or 'ti' is recommended to get most accurate pitching. Most people would use 'la', but singing using 'la' is actually quite difficult to pitch.

Solfege is normally only used during sight singing component in grade 4-8. It is not compulsory though, so still can use any syllabe you want.

[Dreamaurora]

kathyh:

My child's teacher is from china, and she asked us to sing 升Fa (F#), or 降Ti (Bb), which makes me very confused, and in Yamaha, we were asked to sing in this way, say for this chord, \"Fa sharp Do Re (F# C D)\"


which way is the standard way, then?

Chinese system uses 'movable do' a lot as they are expected to be able to read the number notation score. They don't really use 'fixed do'.

The issue here is not all of them adopt the practice of using alternate syllabe for sharpened or flattened note. So some may sing F and F# with the same syllabe 'Fa' and another may sing F# as 'Fi' instead.

Yamaha they use 'Fa Sharp' because having that too many syllabes will confuse the young kids.

So unfortunately, there is no standard way that everybody follow when it comes to the alternate syllabes. As long your daughter can pitch them accurately, that is all that matters.

[Dreamaurora]

sunflower:

Yup! People with perfect pitch has difficulty adjusting to \"out of tune\" performances. They will \"see\" sharps and flats all over the place on the \"score\" in the head! Some really can get headache. It's a \"curse\" and \"blessing\" at the same time.

I'm really not sure whether it's possible for people with perfect pitch to \"train\" for relative pitch. It seems that they don’t really feel the necessity for it as they could already hear everything they see and vice versa. It's usually those without this gift that need to depend on relative pitch to help them in the various aspects of musical learning.

It is indeed harder for people with perfect pitch to train relative pitch. But so far the Kodaly system has been quite successful even used on people with already perfect pitch.

[sunflower]

waiyean:

sunflower:

Yup! People with perfect pitch has difficulty adjusting to \"out of tune\" performances. They will \"see\" sharps and flats all over the place on the \"score\" in the head! Some really can get headache. It's a \"curse\" and \"blessing\" at the same time.

I'm really not sure whether it's possible for people with perfect pitch to \"train\" for relative pitch. It seems that they don’t really feel the necessity for it as they could already hear everything they see and vice versa. It's usually those without this gift that need to depend on relative pitch to help them in the various aspects of musical learning.

I would think that it's possible for people with perfect pitch to learn relative pitch. My DD's aural teacher used to train her to listen and identify various intervals, ie. major & minor 2nds, 3rds, 4ths, etc. Also she will listen to a series of notes, and has to sing it in another starting note. She is still not well grounded in her theory yet to do all this using perfect pitch.

When I wrote about perfect and relative pitch, it’s in the context of identifying individual notes. These abilities are not “must have”, but are added advantage. Anyone, if properly trained, can identify chords and intervals well.

[waiyean]

sunflower:

waiyean:

[quote=\"sunflower\"]
Yup! People with perfect pitch has difficulty adjusting to \"out of tune\" performances. They will \"see\" sharps and flats all over the place on the \"score\" in the head! Some really can get headache. It's a \"curse\" and \"blessing\" at the same time.

I'm really not sure whether it's possible for people with perfect pitch to \"train\" for relative pitch. It seems that they don’t really feel the necessity for it as they could already hear everything they see and vice versa. It's usually those without this gift that need to depend on relative pitch to help them in the various aspects of musical learning.

I would think that it's possible for people with perfect pitch to learn relative pitch. My DD's aural teacher used to train her to listen and identify various intervals, ie. major & minor 2nds, 3rds, 4ths, etc. Also she will listen to a series of notes, and has to sing it in another starting note. She is still not well grounded in her theory yet to do all this using perfect pitch.

When I wrote about perfect and relative pitch, it’s in the context of identifying individual notes. These abilities are not “must have”, but are added advantage. Anyone, if properly trained, can identify chords and intervals well.[/quote]Relative pitch involves knowing a note from a reference point, and that includes ability to identify intervals between notes. You are absolutely right to say that anyone, and that includes people with perfect pitch, can be trained to do that.

[sunflower]

waiyean:

sunflower:

[quote=\"waiyean\"]
I would think that it's possible for people with perfect pitch to learn relative pitch. My DD's aural teacher used to train her to listen and identify various intervals, ie. major & minor 2nds, 3rds, 4ths, etc. Also she will listen to a series of notes, and has to sing it in another starting note. She is still not well grounded in her theory yet to do all this using perfect pitch.

When I wrote about perfect and relative pitch, it’s in the context of identifying individual notes. These abilities are not “must have”, but are added advantage. Anyone, if properly trained, can identify chords and intervals well.

Relative pitch involves knowing a note from a reference point, and that includes ability to identify intervals between notes. You are absolutely right to say that anyone, and that includes people with perfect pitch, can be trained to do that.[/quote]Well, I’m not sure whether you really understood. It’s easy to identify intervals just by hearing if you already have perfect pitch, no need the “help” of relative pitch. It’s quite complex to explain in writing how it works.

I have friends with perfect pitch and others with very good relative pitch, and from what they described, the mechanisms they employ when hearing music are really very different.

Just as what Dreamaurora has shared 3 posts back, it’s not impossible, but just harder.

Cheers!

[waiyean]

sunflower:

Well, I’m not sure whether you really understood. It’s easy to identify intervals just by hearing if you already have perfect pitch, no need the “help” of relative pitch. It’s quite complex to explain in writing how it works.

I have friends with perfect pitch and others with very good relative pitch, and from what they described, the mechanisms they employ when hearing music are really very different.

I wasn't saying that the mechanism is the same. It's easy to identify intervals with perfect pitch if you have good grasp of theory. However for a 4-5 yo child with less than grade 3 theory, it may not be that easy to identify the interval between, say Eb and C. Even with the theory knowledge, it may involve a bit of counting before the child identifies the interval. But, one who recognizes the 6th interval (relative pitch), will be able to tell at once.

What I am trying to say is, there are certain things that are more efficiently handled by relative pitch rather than perfect pitch. Hence there is value for a child with perfect pitch to be trained in relative pitching. Of course it is not a necessity, but it's good to have.

Cheers.

[sunflower]

waiyean:

sunflower:

Well, I’m not sure whether you really understood. It’s easy to identify intervals just by hearing if you already have perfect pitch, no need the “help” of relative pitch. It’s quite complex to explain in writing how it works.

I have friends with perfect pitch and others with very good relative pitch, and from what they described, the mechanisms they employ when hearing music are really very different.

I wasn't saying that the mechanism is the same. It's easy to identify intervals with perfect pitch if you have good grasp of theory. However for a 4-5 yo child with less than grade 3 theory, it may not be that easy to identify the interval between, say Eb and C. Even with the theory knowledge, it may involve a bit of counting before the child identifies the interval. But, one who recognizes the 6th interval (relative pitch), will be able to tell at once.

What I am trying to say is, there are certain things that are more efficiently handled by relative pitch rather than perfect pitch. Hence there is value for a child with perfect pitch to be trained in relative pitching. Of course it is not a necessity, but it's good to have.

Cheers.

Seriously, I do not know how a child’s brain works and how a child understands and associates sounds. I guess at this young age, the association between hearing and understanding of what those sounds mean is still developing. I don’t have perfect pitch neither do I have very good relative pitch, however, I still can identify intervals and chords pretty well.

We used to have to write down the exact notes of the intervals /chords or a musical phrase being played, and having perfect pitch really helped, as it was very much faster and more efficient. Having very good relative pitch helped too, though slightly slower because got to keep making reference to the “Do” or the note before.

Sounds like your child is developing well musically. All the best to his/her music learning journey.

Cheers!