Punggol East By-Election coming ? MP steps down
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Strparent:
:rotflmao:dont know how this thread strayed so off-topic going to property curbs and such le :scratchhead: .
As far as the curbs are concerned, the govt is doing the right thing. People are just barking up the wrong tree. When the market was at low levels in 2008 , you dont see govt restricting anyone from buying and all.
Why at these current levels, anyone still want to speculate or invest is beyond me. I have a roof over my head now, why should I consider buying another one at these CURRENT levels ?
Dont chase, most property trends are cyclic. Its all about timing, likewise the curbs will come when the trend is near the highs ( remember the curbs in 96 ? and the subsequent crash in late 97 and 98 ? )
Got too much money, go ahead. Most smart money already in the market since 2007/2008 and even 2010. soem are even selling now, why kpkb about the restrictions to buy now ?
Trying to save u guys, yet make noise about the life buoys/jackets too tight. :siao:
Noooooo, they are reading from the wrong forum :evil: -
Regarding your statement:
\"The point is to prevent the $1M dollar house from becoming a $1.2M house in a year from now. \"
\"How on earth are locals penalised? If they are buying for their own stay and dispose of their first property, they are not subject to the ABSD, are they? \"
I think you are barking up the wrong tree.
In fact, if property prices remain the same for the next few months, it means that they have in fact increased price paid by buyer by 7%, courtesy of the 7% ABSD! Now, some how the \"cooling measures\" actually become \"heating measures\" (just that it was not reflected in the transacted price as it has been siphoned off). :slapshead:
Also, if you want to talk about bubble, you should focus on the majority, that is, the 80% properties consisting of HDB flats. Many HDB flats owners are hogging HDB flats and another 1 or more private properties, thus causing shortage of supply in resale HDB flats. This causes resale HDB flats to shoot through the roof, with HDB flats selling at $900k! If this is not bubble, then what is it?
Instead, the govt is trying to implement cooling measures on the private property sector making up of 20% properties in singapore. How to cool the whole property market when they try to cool 20% and let the other 80% still running up like fire? Just an analogy: Can you put out a fire by just spray chemicals at 20% portion of it only while allowing the other 80% to add on petrol to burn fiercer? :?
So, you are barking up the wrong tree. The govt seems to be barking up the wrong tree too.
The garment is telling the people, DON'T be that guy that spends 500k to buy a $1m house and leave yourself with $0! Don't do it! Don't buy! Then you don't have to sell at a loss? You are making is sound as if people are being FORCED to part with their money. If I decide to sit tight and watch prices slide, have i paid the garment a single cent of ABSD? Have I sold at any loss to any foreigner? Who knows if that $1m house might only be 800k in 1 years time? Good right, for first time buyers with no house to sell?
You don't seem to understand the illustration I qouted don't you? The illustration I quoted refers to a person who has enough money to pay 50% of the property by cash even after the latest cooling measures (while still able to loan 50%). But does the cooling measures help in making this buyer more stable and safer from financial disaster in the future if property prices drop? Isn't the purpose of any cooling measure is to ensure new property buyers are financially stronger to endure bigger property price drop? The answer is NO, big NO. In fact, the latest cooling measures makes him from a previously STRONG property owner to become a VERY WEAK MARGINALIZED property owner even though he is still able to buy a property after the latest cooling measures. So, the latest cooling measures will exacerbate more property buyers into financial disaster in the future (since it leaves them with little cash buffer on hand). On the other hand, the person I quoted has suggested a perfectly good solution that is able to make strong property owner remain strong while removing the need for ABSD (but that may not be what some people intended isn't it?).
It is that simple, really. Even the opposition politicians did not hammer on this, why on earth do you think you are anywhere close to the truth?
Just because opposition politicians did not hammer on this means I and the other people are not getting close to the truth? What logic is this? :siao:JannettLee:
The latest cooling measures involving lower loan-to-valuation and much higher cash downpayment indeed causes more people to be marginalized even if they can afford to buy now. The reason is very simple, I learnt this from another forum which I will copy and paste here and I believe the writer of the below has great foresight indeed and has suggested a better solution with no hidden agenda than what the govt/MND has come out with:
(the latest cooling measures) they force many more property buyers/owners to become marginal owners/buyers because they end up with less cash on hand! This is a fact! This shows that you are just not a season investor. Let me put it simpler to you:
1) You buy a property for $1m. You have $500k. You pay $200k, loan $800k (i.e 80% LTV), hold cash $300k. Your $300k CASH can last you for a long time without rental, regardless of amount of loan instalment (even if you spread the loan out for only 15 years and have super high loan instalment!). You are not a marginal owner.
2) You buy a property for $1m. You have $500k. You are forced to pay $500k and can only loan $500k (i.e. 50% LTV). You end up with $0 cash on hand and you immediately become very very marginal owner! No rental only you go fly kite regardless of amount of loan instalment (even if you spread loan over 50 years to have lower loan instalment also useless!). Sell your property cheap cheap to foreigners!
Now, you are saying govt has no choice? That is stupid reply.
I can tell you, if I am them and I genuinely want to rid out margin buyer, I say can still can loan 80%, but please get a bank letter stating that you have liquid assets (or cash) equivalent to 20% of the value of the property you are buying and the liquid asset has been with the bank/brokerage/(whatever institution) for at least 1 year (to avoid last minute transfer for show only). So my suggested policy will still rid out marginal buyers without disadvantaging Singaporeans via lower LTV right? What ABSD? For milking revenue rather than genuine cooling measure? Isn't my \"cooling measure\" more citizens-friendly and make most property owners happy to vote for me? You see, because my suggested \"cooling measure\" policy has no hidden agenda, not trying to milk extra revenue via ABSD, and do not disadvantage local property owners, make them instantly become marginal property owners/buyers...3Boys:
The point is to prevent the $1M dollar house from becoming a $1.2M house in a year from now.
Why don't you get it??
How on earth are locals penalised? If they are buying for their own stay and dispose of their first property, they are not subject to the ABSD, are they?
It's not as if on if forced into buying a second property. If one has a place to stay or if one only wishes to upgrade, then the ABSD does not apply. The point is to discourage people in investing in property right now as the investment sentiment is too hot and there is a risk of a bubble, and that there may be people who enter in at LTV at 80% who may get burnt if the market turns.
The garment is telling the people, DON'T be that guy that spends 500k to buy a $1m house and leave yourself with $0! Don't do it! Don't buy! Then you don't have to sell at a loss? You are making is sound as if people are being FORCED to part with their money. If I decide to sit tight and watch prices slide, have i paid the garment a single cent of ABSD? Have I sold at any loss to any foreigner? Who knows if that $1m house might only be 800k in 1 years time? Good right, for first time buyers with no house to sell?
It is that simple, really. Even the opposition politicians did not hammer on this, why on earth do you think you are anywhere close to the truth? -
Do govt collect ABSD from foreigners only?
Are you saying the govt does not collect ABSD from the citizens?
So why marginalized the citizens?
Is this the reason why they lose so many more votes in Punggol East? :nailbite:pirate:
So that the bank can force sell it later to me. :evil:Strparent:
Why at these current levels, anyone still want to speculate or invest is beyond me.
Seriously, the 15% ABSD for foreign buyers is because HK slapped the same thing on their market first, and the government does not want the hot money to come from HK to Singapore.
And what is :censored: wrong with the govt collecting some ABSD from foreigners and people with too much money? -
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sinoboy:
It's ok if govt wants to collect absd from foreigners but slapping a low loan to value on locals prevents genuine local investors from deploying their depreciating hard earned money. Tell me which asset other than a physical property is a good hedge of inflation? I am not trying to make a punt on properties but in the current high inflation environment with super low real interest rate I want to safeguard that little cash that I accumulated as a PMET. I want to invest in toyota vios that later can Cinderella into a Lexus LS460 as well but as a local the LTV works against me compared to some foreigners that can afford to pay for the property entirely with suitcases of cash. Don't ask me to spend my little savings in the casino or to buy a High COE car to drive, I want to live in a Lexus LS460!
If you require a high LTV ratio loan, you are not investing your hard earned money. You are leveraging, using somebody else's money. That is always dangerous when the market turns against you.
How to safely invest to hedge against inflation in this current economic climate? I don't know. I don't think the government knows either. -
Can you please stop making such baseless accusations? I am totally disgusted with attitude of people like you, who will start to resort to making personal attack as though it is real and true. I really don't know what to say about such people like you....
3Boys:
Finally finally finally, the truth is revealed. You are not writing because you care about the welfare of Singaporeans at all are you?JannettLee:
You see, many singaporeans are sick, very sick. They expect the govt to spoon feed them, take care of them, nanny them, save them from taking risks, etc etc...
No wonder Korea has Samsung, LG, Hyundai, etc etc, but Singapore has what singaporean global corporations the like of Korea's Samsung etc that singaporeans can be proud of? See, singaporeans expect govt to take care of them and nanny them and they don't dare to take risks.....
[quote=\"Strparent\"]
Trying to save u guys, yet make noise about the life buoys/jackets too tight. :siao:
You want a property bubble to develop so you can offload your properties I guess, with no regard for a potential future crash or general affordability for the public.
There is a property bubble due to cheap money, the moment interest rates climb, the market will correct. You know that as well as I do. Why do you want the poor chap trying to get yield on his savings to fall into that trap? The garment is trying to prevent excessive risk taking, what's wrong with that?[/quote] -
JannetLee doesn't aware that the bank would call her to top up her mortgage loan margin if her property's price/valuation drop below her loan amount, lah.
Of course can loan, some countries can even loan up to 95%, that left bank with 5% buffer, property market crash or slide, bank will invite you go drink coffee already :evil:
Be patient with her, obviously she is quite fortunate in investing property.
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Resale HDB flats transacting at $800k-900k, isn't this a bubble or genuine demand? A bubble in HDB property market right? Are we seeing real effective cooling measures being implemented for HDB property market? The answer is obviously no. So why no? they are sleeping? Trying to put out \"perceived\" fire in 20% private property market when in fact fire is ragging in the 80% HDB property market!
pirate:
The foreigners are not coming in to buy in any numbers. The softest segment of the market is the upmarket segment in the central districts and district 15. The strongest demand is for developer sales in the suburbs. Why? Because one only needs to plonk down 20% and then wait for the developers to build. Most of the buyers don't even know what they are buying. Wait till they get their keys then they will know. :evil:JannettLee:
See that is the problem with most people as they perceived that this is a bubble and they didn't know that it's a genuine demand! What do you expect the property demand when government allow almost 100K foreigners to come in every year now? Now you know why some people can be a property investor but some can't. You need to have foresight to make money :imcool:
Don't just take the face value of any policies!
As I said, these cooling measures are killing off all marginalized singaporean. Private property is going to be out of reach for most singaporean by looking at the trend.
It's none of my business la and just let people see from another angles... My offspring are well taken off anyway!
Private resale market of completed units is not particularly strong.
The market is now perceived as genuine demand when it is in fact a bubble. If it is genuine demand, the restrictions on financing for 2nd and subsequent properties will have no impact on the market.
Oh. And do you have any idea how many Singaporeans out there are able to plonk down cash on a 3rd, 4th or 5th property right now? Foresight is buying that investment property in 2009, not 2012.
But it's all cool. :imcool: Believe what you want. There is no shortage of investors who make a killing off marginal investors with no holding power. -
Every weekend there are many properties being auctioned by the banks.
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pirate:
Is there a property that I can buy in Singapore without a reasonable LTV? Given that previously the high LTV and long loan tenors have already pushed prices very high. Even some mickey mouse shoe boxes are $1m and above and it doesn't mean that prices cannot go higher. Now with shortage of foreign WOrkers houses take longer to built so supply may not match demand. A market turn for the worse could take a few more years, so for the time being property is my safest 'bet'. :sad:sinoboy:
It's ok if govt wants to collect absd from foreigners but slapping a low loan to value on locals prevents genuine local investors from deploying their depreciating hard earned money. Tell me which asset other than a physical property is a good hedge of inflation? I am not trying to make a punt on properties but in the current high inflation environment with super low real interest rate I want to safeguard that little cash that I accumulated as a PMET. I want to invest in toyota vios that later can Cinderella into a Lexus LS460 as well but as a local the LTV works against me compared to some foreigners that can afford to pay for the property entirely with suitcases of cash. Don't ask me to spend my little savings in the casino or to buy a High COE car to drive, I want to live in a Lexus LS460!
If you require a high LTV ratio loan, you are not investing your hard earned money. You are leveraging, using somebody else's money. That is always dangerous when the market turns against you.
How to safely invest to hedge against inflation in this current economic climate? I don't know. I don't think the government knows either.
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