Are you ready for 7 million people on tiny Singapore?
-
Sun_2010:
I also dont know what is the hulla bulla all about. 'People have, I also want to have', regardless of whether having it is at what cost and whether worth or not - typical of human or just applicable to Singaporeans?
If a degree is lets you get a job as a temp data entry operator , then why all this hulla bulla about \" good schools\" and foreign scholars taking up uni places. Afterall that struggle they are getting worthless cert.Sun_2010:
Need to reach a compromise, a middle ground somewhere. Dont overkill.
So how? have a different population for each group? .Sun_2010:
I would say majority of our local kids are not prepared for that, too bad!If our grads have walked thru uni without an ilking of how to fend and grow in the job market, what they need to do to stay relevant and adapt to that , they should ask for a refund. Its a dog-eat-dog world out there . And if education has not prepared one for that, too bad. We will learn it the hard way.
Havent you heard enough of uni-potentials wanna to go to a certain course, such as banking, that they are interested in, but couldn't get in. So die die must go to the uni and ended up anyhow kasa a course that they could enter. After graduated, then anyhow kasa a job. In their little minds, degree is THE THING; anything else lesser is a shame!
A level results will be out soon. Many of these kids will have to 'kasa kasa' again. I dont blame the kids but lament over some parents who cannot offer them wiser choices and have to fix their eyes die die on the uni. With not-so-wise parents (even high educated ones), what can we expect from these kids?
Yawn... -
pirate:
Exactly.
I wonder how many of them actually wrote in their application letter, \"I know I am a fresh graduate with no relevant experience. However, I am eager to learn on the job. I would be pleased to be given an opportunity to start at the factory floor on a non-graduate trainee's allowance instead of graduate pay.\" Bet you that would get them at least an interview somewhere for no other reason than sheer initiative.Dora1:
For many of them. they were not even given the opportunity to go for interviews, not to talk about counter offering the pay. From my friends of the industry, fresh grads have no chance at all, which is very different from my experience in the industry 10+ years ago as a fresh grad.
These grads are here in the stat board because we are still remotely related to the industry. They still hope to go back to the industry some day, and this is the closest to experience they can get. They told me many of their friends are now in insurance or housing agents or teachers, which is totally unrelated to the industry cos they have given up looking. These young people who are trained using taxpayers money are lost to the industry forever.
And that is the problem with some of our young fresh graduates.
You have got to show the employer - employ me and I will be more productive than a lower paid and or more experienced person
Because typically employer wants value for money. You have to show you are worth it. That your lack of experience will be more than compensated by your efficiency and attitude.
After all this is the time one can afford to take risks. Not mid career with more responsibilities bogging them down. -
Dreamaurora:
If we link 'face' to how much we earn, the joy is only temporary. And having a lot of 'face' because of how much we earn does not guarantee respect from others; just see how much animosity people have towards our MPs and ministers despite them earning really a lot of money. For me 'face' is about the quality and honesty in my work. I watched Jiro Dreams of Sushi and I truly respect that kind of character. Even though he could have gone fully commercial and set up sushi chains to earn really lots of money, he choose to devote his heart and soul to his sushi creations in that single sushi shop he owns for decades. Now that is a 'face' that I would die for.
But then you are \"Dream\" :evil:
We don't work to please other people.
If only. If only. There would be more contentment, less stress related disorders ....
If 'face' is that important, why is it many high earning professionals decided to do mid-career switch to a job that is much less prestigious and lesser pay such as teaching or social work?
Only a few. They are fortunate to realise its better late than never. some dont have the courgage to take that step. Some dont even realise it. -
Actually, I do hear a lot of stories fr both new grads and over 40 Singaporeans who do find it hard to look for jobs and find themselves doing jobs that are way below their expectations. And they attribute that to FT/ FW willing to come in at lower pay and longer hours. There are 2 sides to the story.
Perhaps it’s where do we find the balance. If we really can’t have our cake and eat it, then what fraction of the cake do we eat? And as everyone’s balance, or should I say appetite, is different, perhaps taking a vote would be the most equitable. -
Government lazy or not keen to explore how to segregrate FT/WP quota needs of different industries, preferring more on one-size-fit-all.
Perhaps another possibility to restrict or release quota is to look at the working hours needs of each industry other than mere white/blue collar jobs.
For those industries, such as most banks and most jobs in non-service companies, that operate regular fixed hours (excl OT), they will have lower quota. With lower quota, perhaps more jobs can be released to our local instead of being filled by FT.
For those industries that need to work long hours and that require shift work, such as restuarants, that can drag way into the night, can have a higher quota (since one of the key words of many Sporeans is "work life balance" and therefore reluctant to work shifts, long hours, etc). -
znzyzyzx:
Sometimes is not that they are not willing to accept lower pay, but it is that hiring is 垄断 by the agencies (the HR people like to outsourse their job to agencies) , and the agencies probably have connection with overseas agencies , and may be they can make more by recommending foreigner.[/quote]That is why people are saying that the government is out of touch with the ground. We shouldn't be arguing theoretically if FTs create or take away jobs. You should go to the ground and really learn what happens. I am sure theory in their plan don't take into considerations such as human nature to employ their own kind, how about office politics and culture? If it becomes predominantly foreign, then locals (even good in skills or knowledge) may not fit into the culture anymore...and there are many more possible factors that may not be considered in the beautiful master plan theory that gov has in mind...then reality drift further and further away from theory.....pirate:
[quote=\"Dora1\"]I totally agree with you. 10+ years ago, when I was a fresh graduate, I had no problems look for a job even though I have no experience. The companies were will to give us a chance and train us. Now, in the stat board that I am in, there are 10 fresh uni grads who have technical degrees fr NUS and NTU, doing temp data entry and admin work. They said they can't find work, cos the companies all don't want to hire fresh graduates. My friends who are still in the industry say that's because for the same pay, they can hire FTs with abt 3-5 years experience.
Maybe you should ask those 10 fresh uni grads why they never take the initiative to offer to take a lower pay to undergo on-the-job training doing the front-line operations work of their desired prospective employers? Why they rather go do data-entry and low level admin work in a stat board? How they expect to get relevant experience if they not willing to get their hands dirty or their shirts sweaty or scolded by unreasonable customers? -
WeiHan:
That is why people are saying that the government is out of touch with the ground. We shouldn't be arguing theoretically if FTs create or take away jobs. You should go to the ground and really learn what happens. I am sure theory in their plan don't take into considerations such as human nature to employ their own kind, how about office politics and culture? If it becomes predominantly foreign, then locals (even good in skills or knowledge) may not fit into the culture anymore...and there are many more possible factors that may not be considered in the beautiful master plan theory that gov has in mind...then reality drift further and further away from theory.....[/quote]Did the 10 uni grads who are content doing data entry and low level admin work make the effort to take that initiative? Stop making excuses for them.znzyzyzx:
[quote=\"pirate\"]Maybe you should ask those 10 fresh uni grads why they never take the initiative to offer to take a lower pay to undergo on-the-job training doing the front-line operations work of their desired prospective employers? Why they rather go do data-entry and low level admin work in a stat board? How they expect to get relevant experience if they not willing to get their hands dirty or their shirts sweaty or scolded by unreasonable customers?
Sometimes is not that they are not willing to accept lower pay, but it is that hiring is 垄断 by the agencies (the HR people like to outsourse their job to agencies) , and the agencies probably have connection with overseas agencies , and may be they can make more by recommending foreigner. -
WeiHan:
You should go to the ground and really learn what happens. I am sure theory in their plan don't take into considerations such as human nature to employ their own kind, how about office politics and culture? If it becomes predominantly foreign, then locals (even good in skills or knowledge) may not fit into the culture anymore...and there are many more possible factors that may not be considered in the beautiful master plan theory that gov has in mind...then reality drift further and further away from theory.....
What a fairy tale. :roll:
Sad thing is that some people actually believe it.
Singaporeans have gone overseas and excelled in foreign companies in foreign lands. For the longest time, MNCs that have set up here have always had mostly staffed with HQ people to begin with.
The much vaunted world beating Singapore worker being run over in a company because of a foreign culture? :siao: -
3Boys:
Fairy tale? Just because you never experienced it does not mean the above situation does not exists. This is very real in the IT industry.WeiHan:
You should go to the ground and really learn what happens. I am sure theory in their plan don't take into considerations such as human nature to employ their own kind, how about office politics and culture? If it becomes predominantly foreign, then locals (even good in skills or knowledge) may not fit into the culture anymore...and there are many more possible factors that may not be considered in the beautiful master plan theory that gov has in mind...then reality drift further and further away from theory.....
What a fairy tale. :roll:
Sad thing is that some people actually believe it.
Singaporeans have gone overseas and excelled in foreign companies in foreign lands. For the longest time, MNCs that have set up here have always had mostly staffed with HQ people to begin with.
The much vaunted world beating Singapore worker being run over in a company because of a foreign culture? :siao:
Of course, The singaporean work culture and ethics is still very much in demand... In indonesia and vietnam..... -
WP’s Chen Show Mao takes fire in Parliament over 5.9 million projection
Hougang-Aljuined MP Chen Show Mao faced a volley of questions in Parliament on Tuesday over the Worker’s Party’s ‘5.9 million instead of 6.9 million’ projection for Singapore’s population.
Entering into the current hot topic debate over the White Paper, Chen said that the Worker’s Party did not agree with the recommendations of the Paper.
“We believe that we should emphasise on growing the Singapore core. To use this policy which by its nature is a uni-directional policy tool - reversing this policy will require great effort and may erode human rights,” said Chen.
“When we have 6.9 million people we will have even less space for making mistakes. I would urge the government to think three times before we move.”
Instead, he urged the government to encourage more Singaporeans to join the workforce. Citing labour statistics that 1.06 million Singaporeans were not working in 2012, Chen said that the emphasis should be on getting this group of people to re-enter the workforce – and not bringing in more foreign labour.
In particular, Chen said that the ageing population should not be considered dependents or hindrances to a dynamic Singapore, but rather a ‘triumph of development’, many of whom still have much to offer our country.
He ended his speech by empathically opposing the motion, drawing questions and criticism from other MPs.
MOS for Manpower Tan Chuan Jin reminded Chen that the Paper’s 6.9 million number was a ‘projection, not a target’ and that boundaries had been clearly spelled out, which, unlike WP’s proposal, had concrete ideas and initiatives to provide support for Singaporeans.
“Our objective is about the people – the quality of life that can be provided at that stage. But the stepping stones – the state of the economy, level of population growth that is needed – we are more interested in the methods to get there – we do have many initiatives, we have the advantage scheme, the SEC which has worked very well,” said Tan.
PAP MP Vikram Nair asked Chen for a breakdown of the immigration numbers under the WP’s proposed plan for a 5.9 million plan by 2030.
He also asked if the WP hires foreign workers to work in their Town Councils through their managing agents.
Chen responded that he would look into providing the breakdowns.
“Like many TCs, the Aljunied-Hougang TC is managed by a managing agent who in turn helps the TC subcontract a lot of it’s functions to service provides, including cleaners. Yes, they have foreign workers on their staff although I understand from them they are making every effort to reduce that number,” said Chen in answer to Nair’s second question.
MP Janil Puthucheary questioned WP’s plan to increase labour participation for the elderly, requesting for specific information like their proposed average retirement age, what proportion of the ageing population WP would target, and how many workers it would add to the workforce.
Chen replied that WP was not counting only on increases in the labour participation rate to hit boost Singapore’s workforce and that WP expects the resident labour force to grow at one per cent over the next few years, contributing to numbers.
Reported with Jeanette Tan at Parliament
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