Are you ready for 7 million people on tiny Singapore?
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concern2:
Because it's such a shamelessly inane piece of writing from the WP, which basically abuses their supporters and treats them (and others) like morons.3Boys:
It's such an obvious piece of propaganda and you are falling for it?
I can also say 'Strong economic growth is in the best interest of Singaporeans'.
How, you believe me or not?
I don't get it. Why are we scrutinizing on WP's proposal? Is the White Paper very convincing? I find WP is over-doing. They don't have to propose, do they?
Yup, that's the beauty of being in the small minority opposition, you can propose something completely outrageous, safe in the knowledge that it will never get implemented, and yet people will go :goodpost: :goodpost: ..... -
3Boys:
:goodpost:
It's sad you do not hold any value to traditional family values, including sanctity of marriage.WeiHan:
What is wrong with a more liberal attitude towards sex?
What is so good about traditional family values for us to cling to it?
Are countries with more permissive sex attitude really worse than us in a broad spectrum of measures?
I say, there is no concrete proofs that a victorian sex attitude leads to stronger society so why the need to cling to it?
Figures show that children from normal 2-parent families do better in school, have higher self esteem, and are more successful in adult life. Not to say that those from broken homes don't make it, but the odds are slightly stacked.
If a free-for-all is supposedly superior, then why, even in the most permissive societies, are there laws that allow for divorce on the grounds of adultery?
Because like it or not, there are boundaries when it comes to sex and relationships. Like it or not, those boundaries are what we call values.
Even the most permissive societies value families, and have laws that protect them. And if it is not values that define a family, that what does? If values do not define human behaviours, then what does?
Just because you do not believe in or have experienced the power of 'traditional family values', does not mean that it does not exist of has no value for the rest of us. -
3Boys:
Because it's such a shamelessly inane piece of writing from the WP, which basically abuses their supporters and treats them (and others) like morons.concern2:
[quote=\"3Boys\"]
It's such an obvious piece of propaganda and you are falling for it?
I can also say 'Strong economic growth is in the best interest of Singaporeans'.
How, you believe me or not? I don't get it. Why are we scrutinizing on WP's proposal? Is the White Paper very convincing? I find WP is over-doing. They don't have to propose, do they?
Yup, that's the beauty of being in the small minority opposition, you can propose something completely outrageous, safe in the knowledge that it will never get implemented, and yet people will go :goodpost: :goodpost: .....[/quote]Shameless? Propaganda?
I think it is still way better than a policy that has been tried out in the past decade, failed miserably but the proposer still insists stubbornly in going down the same path.
and is ironical...it is PAP supporters that always :goodpost: for whatever they say just like the one immediately below your post. -
WeiHan:
:yikes:What is wrong with a more liberal attitude towards sex?
What is so good about traditional family values for us to cling to it?
Are countries with more permissive sex attitude really worse than us in a broad spectrum of measures?
I say, there is no concrete proofs that a victorian sex attitude leads to stronger society so why the need to cling to it?
Ok I must be terribly outdated..... :sad: -
dorisp:
You are not alone, dear.... count me in! :sad:
:yikes:WeiHan:
What is wrong with a more liberal attitude towards sex?
What is so good about traditional family values for us to cling to it?
Are countries with more permissive sex attitude really worse than us in a broad spectrum of measures?
I say, there is no concrete proofs that a victorian sex attitude leads to stronger society so why the need to cling to it?
Ok I must be terribly outdated..... :sad:
(Couldn't resist to post to agree with you that we must be freaking \"outdated\"; you got 15 votes here, my dinner guests they are...)
:sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:
All of us are as :sad: as you... -
3Boys:
Children from families that both parents work day and night did equally bad.
Figures show that children from normal 2-parent families do better in school, have higher self esteem, and are more successful in adult life. Not to say that those from broken homes don't make it, but the odds are slightly stacked.3Boys:
Adultery isn't in my definition of liberal. Adultery hurts someone feeling and it is a breech of trust.If a free-for-all is supposedly superior, then why, even in the most permissive societies, are there laws that allow for divorce on the grounds of adultery?
3Boys:
In fact, there are more fundamental values to adhere too. For me, Compassion will be one of them. Wathever one does should not harm another being. According to my definition, consensual adult sex (involving adults that are not already someone else spouse), outside of marriage, is acceptable.
Because like it or not, there are boundaries when it comes to sex and relationships. Like it or not, those boundaries are what we call values.3Boys:
See aboveEven the most permissive societies value families, and have laws that protect them. And if it is not values that define a family, that what does? If values do not define human behaviours, then what does?
3Boys:
Outside traditional values doesn't mean that there is no values. It is a different set of values. Many of the policies of those more permissive societies that you mentioned above is based on more modern humanistic value system instead of one that is prudish that many people here cherish even in the expense of becoming extinct.Just because you do not believe in or have experienced the power of 'traditional family values', does not mean that it does not exist of has no value for the rest of us.
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Parliament endorses population White Paper by 77 votes to 13. some PAP MPs talked so much but still vote to support! Can they vote against in the very first place?
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/pm-lee-makes-passionate-appeal-for-population-white-paper-in-parliament-082910512.html
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After a week-long heated debate, Parliament voted on Friday to endorse the population White Paper by 77 votes to 13, with one abstention.
Close to 6pm, Madam Speaker of Parliament Haalimah Yaacob called the House to a vote.
WP leader Low Thia Kiang stunned those in attendance by standing up to ask the Speaker for a division to the motion, effectively meaning the House could not decide to pass the paper by a verbal vote. The House doors were then locked and the assembly took to an electronic vote.
The nine Workers' Party MPs and NCMPs, Lina Chiam, along with Nominated Members of Parliament Janice Koh, Faizah Jamal and Laurence Lien all voted against the motion, while 77 voted in favour.
NMP Eugene Tan abstained from voting and later told Yahoo! Singapore that he initially planned to oppose the motion but decided to take a \"leap of faith\" after listening to PM Lee's parliament address.
\"I now have even higher expectations -- the government must not fail... I felt that the government was meeting me halfway, and for me (his vote to abstain) is a statement that I will keep an open mind.\"
Before the vote was held, PM Lee Hsien Loong had made an impassioned, emotional 90-minute plea that was broadcast live on national television, seeking to reassure Singaporeans that they remained \"at the heart of all we do\".
Saying he expects the total population in Singapore in 2030 to be \"significantly below\" the 6.9 million figure projected in the White Paper on Population last week, he urged Singaporeans to see beyond the rhetoric of the past week and understand that \"we are all in this together\".
\"So what will the total population in Singapore be?\" asked PM Lee at one point.
\"In my view in 2030, I think 6 million will not be enough to meet Singaporeans' needs as our population ages because of this problem of the baby boomers and bulge of ageing people,\" he said in a live televised address in Malay, Mandarin and finally English.
\"But I believe the total population in 2030 should be significantly below 6.9 million and beyond 2030, in the very long-term, it should not increase beyond that,\" he said.
PM Lee added that to project the population beyond 2020 was \"uncertain\" and \"for future generations to decide\" and that the 6.9 million figure that has drawn widespread criticism \"had been taken out of context.\"
He said the paper, more than being about numbers and the economy was to \"secure the future of this generation and future generations of Singaporeans\".
Recognising that many were concerned that the population in 2030 would only consist of 55% of core Singaporeans, he said, \"We will track and control so we will not be overwhelmed by the sheer flood of foreigners\".
In conclusion, PM Lee said Singapore would have to face tough choices and trade-offs in the years ahead but said \"We are all in this together, we have to go beyond the rhetoric and if we make the right choices our future is bright.\"
At one point, PM Lee was also seen choking up as he talked about the importance of retaining a \"Singapore core\" of people who have families and homes here and who were willing to defend the nation because \"we feel as one\" and \"share sorrows\" together.
Finally, he reassured Singaporeans and said \"You are at the heart of all of our policies. You are the reason why my key men and I entered politics… and we want Singapore to do well so Singaporeans can do well\" before concluding that he supported the amended motion.
The paper, which was published last week, sparked heated debate among Singaporeans both online and offline over the government’s projection that the city-state's population by 2030 could hit nearly 7 million.
It also said the country would have to continue to accept more immigrants, albeit at a slower pace than before, to sustain the country’s economic growth and offset the country’s low total fertility rate and ageing population. -
dorisp:
Define \"traditional\". Why are you so sad over something that you may not even fully grasped? I have already defined some other value system (humanistic value system) that have guided many countries policies making.
:yikes:WeiHan:
What is wrong with a more liberal attitude towards sex?
What is so good about traditional family values for us to cling to it?
Are countries with more permissive sex attitude really worse than us in a broad spectrum of measures?
I say, there is no concrete proofs that a victorian sex attitude leads to stronger society so why the need to cling to it?
Ok I must be terribly outdated..... :sad:
It is not as bad and lawless as many of you make it out to be, you know? -
Happy CNY and happy :grphug: more new Singaporeans.
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WeiHan:
Well, my DW and I are prudish, and we ain't extinct. My parents are prudes, married for 45 years, and they had 3 children.
In fact, there are more fundamental values to adhere too. For me, Compassion will be one of them. Wathever one does should not harm another being. According to my definition, consensual adult sex (involving adults that are not already someone else spouse), outside of marriage, is acceptable.
Outside traditional values doesn't mean that there is no values. It is a different set of values. Many of the policies of those more permissive societies that you mentioned above is based on more modern humanistic value system instead of one that is prudish that many people here cherish even in the expense of becoming extinct.
So much for your theory.
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