Are you ready for 7 million people on tiny Singapore?
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1. It’s not the size of the dog in fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog…so are we defensible…yes if we have a whole country of 3boys…no if we have a whole country of janettelee…simple…
2. Where does the government get their revenue? Taxes…one way or another…which one do you prefer?? Income tax or consumption tax? Your choice…so don’t keep asking to reduce one tax but never think of which other tax to raise… -
Moonsun55:
We all know? Who is we?No country in the region? why you talk of region like China, Russia not in Asia region? Furthermore, If any country want to invade, they can come from anywhere. We all know the singapore's military is wayang, it can never stop a big powerful country from taking it down, & that is a fact that even if Singapore spend >20% of GDP on defense, it will not make much difference. I rather we minimize defense budget to focus on efficiency & transfer this money to healthcare in view of aging population needs.
3Boys:
I must say I feel a little disappointed that not more people weighed in against the ridiculous notion that our island is not defensible.
Having dutifully served NS and ICTs over the years, and having held some positions of responsibility in that time, I have no doubt that there is no country in the region that can mount a successful invasion of Singapore, and it is down to the professionalism and strength of our armed forces, not the presence of foreigners. If you are not familiar, here is a good book to read.
http://www.questia.com/library/98854885/defending-the-lion-city-the-armed-forces-of-singapore
Anyone familiar with our history, will realize that our present state of economic development, international standing, and indeed, independence, owes a whole lot to the strength of the SAF.
To have an uninformed individual come in and make the preposterous statement that we owe our peace to the presence of foreigners, on Feb 15th no less, is singularly OFFENSIVE!
No one who knows or values our soldiers, our independence, should grant this notion any quarter whatsoever. Rather than standing on the sidelines and chomping popcorn, it'd be nice if there were more than a few would speak up here to disabuse the uninformed of such an egregious notion, forcefully.
I suggest you speak for yourself.
Nobody says we can fight China or Russia or the US. In any case, of the 3, only the Us at this time has any ability to project forces so far, should they choose to do so. So your example is just a big red Herring.
So we scale our forces to deal with the proximate and realistic threats, we don't roll over an play dead. -
3Boys:
If you refer 'someone' is me. I can tell you I have never changed my opinion but rather you have tendency to read the first sentence and the form your own opinion (without finishing the whole passage) and then treat your formed opinion as my opinion. If you go back to my old postings back (a few posting before this one). I can tell you that I have been saying cutting NS duration to 1 year since yesterday. I had kept saying I 'm NOT asking to abolish the defence but asking to cut the defence cost to minimum. My mistake was I didn't elaborate more about what I meant by cut defence budget to minimum (and you already jumped to abolishing the defence by the way!).
Thanks!toddles:
Kee chiew! I am weighing in agst egregious notions! Our beloved nation is definitely defensible, by many men who do truly believe in staying and doing so.
I have no beef with spending on the best technology that money can buy. But there is much slack that can be tightened up, not least with the sheer waste of manpower resources. Ask any male. Esp those on ICT.
Agree that there his some slack and inefficiencies in the NS system, and we can definitely do better. Shortening NS is a possible step. I have 3 boys, that would be great news to me!
But that's not to say we trim the budget to a minimum or that Singapore is not defensible, is it?
Someone is shifting positions again (not you toddles), better stop before I get accused of putting words in mouths. -
3Boys:
We all know? Who is we?Moonsun55:
No country in the region? why you talk of region like China, Russia not in Asia region? Furthermore, If any country want to invade, they can come from anywhere. We all know the singapore's military is wayang, it can never stop a big powerful country from taking it down, & that is a fact that even if Singapore spend >20% of GDP on defense, it will not make much difference. I rather we minimize defense budget to focus on efficiency & transfer this money to healthcare in view of aging population needs.
[quote=\"3Boys\"]I must say I feel a little disappointed that not more people weighed in against the ridiculous notion that our island is not defensible.
Having dutifully served NS and ICTs over the years, and having held some positions of responsibility in that time, I have no doubt that there is no country in the region that can mount a successful invasion of Singapore, and it is down to the professionalism and strength of our armed forces, not the presence of foreigners. If you are not familiar, here is a good book to read.
http://www.questia.com/library/98854885/defending-the-lion-city-the-armed-forces-of-singapore
Anyone familiar with our history, will realize that our present state of economic development, international standing, and indeed, independence, owes a whole lot to the strength of the SAF.
To have an uninformed individual come in and make the preposterous statement that we owe our peace to the presence of foreigners, on Feb 15th no less, is singularly OFFENSIVE!
No one who knows or values our soldiers, our independence, should grant this notion any quarter whatsoever. Rather than standing on the sidelines and chomping popcorn, it'd be nice if there were more than a few would speak up here to disabuse the uninformed of such an egregious notion, forcefully.
I suggest you speak for yourself.
Nobody says we can fight China or Russia or the US. In any case, of the 3, only the Us at this time has any ability to project forces so far, should they choose to do so. So your example is just a big red Herring.
So we scale our forces to deal with the proximate and realistic threats, we don't roll over an play dead.[/quote]I learnt new thing today! I didn't know that we can defense Nuclear Weapon from Russia and China. :yikes: I always thought that they don't even need to come out 一兵一卒can already 轻而易举拿下 those countries which do not have any nuclear weapon. They have Nuclear Weapon but still are not considered to have ability to project forces ? :skeptical: -
I’m PAP supporter but that does not mean that I agree wholeheartedly with all their policies. 3Boys have been very defensive about all PAP policies and I’m interested to know whether he is 100% agreeable with all those existing policies.
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3Boys:
Really? Me thinks the army really has some work to do to educate or convince their own men in believing so.The point of NS is that we are serious about defence and we fight to win. Right now, there is no one in the region that can come in and beat us, NO ONE.
Please quit embarrassing yourself.
I must have been talking to the minority tho. Just about every of these men who has dutifully served his NS and reservist tells me he will be the first to run away if there ever is a war because Singapore army is no fight to anybody, and NS and reservist are a complete waste of his time, and sometimes money if he is a self-employed.
I asked them,\"If even people like you, who are trained and prepared for war, run away? What hope is there for people like us?\"
They are such an embarrassment to the army aren't they? -
toddles:
And I suspect with more efficiency in man power planning alone, we maybe able to cut spending in defence from 4% to 3% of GDP. That is still higher than countries such as South Korea that are in war zones with constant threat all the time. There is no need to use stones and arrows at all.Kee chiew! I am weighing in agst egregious notions! Our beloved nation is definitely defensible, by many men who do truly believe in staying and doing so.
I have no beef with spending on the best technology that money can buy. But there is much slack that can be tightened up, not least with the sheer waste of manpower resources. Ask any male. Esp those on ICT. -
rains:
Whatever. Lets just say I don't find you credible. You can return the compliment if you like and that's fine with me.
Really? Me thinks the army really has some work to do to educate or convince their own men in believing so.3Boys:
The point of NS is that we are serious about defence and we fight to win. Right now, there is no one in the region that can come in and beat us, NO ONE.
Please quit embarrassing yourself.
I must have been talking to the minority tho. Just about every of these men who has dutifully served his NS and reservist tells me he will be the first to run away if there ever is a war because Singapore army is no fight to anybody, and NS and reservist are a complete waste of his time, and sometimes money if he is a self-employed.
I asked them,\"If even people like you, who are trained and prepared for war, run away? What hope is there for people like us?\"
They are such an embarrassment to the army aren't they? -
JannettLee:
If you refer 'someone' is me. I can tell you I have never changed my opinion but rather you have tendency to read the first sentence and the form your own opinion (without finishing the whole passage) and then treat your formed opinion as my opinion. If you go back to my old postings back (a few posting before this one). I can tell you that I have been saying cutting NS duration to 1 year since yesterday. I had kept saying I 'm NOT asking to abolish the defence but asking to cut the defence cost to minimum. My mistake was I didn't elaborate more about what I meant by to the minimum (and you also jumped to abolishing the defence by the way!).[/quote]And my question to you is why even bother with 1 year of NS if we are not willing to spend and invest in enough equipment and infrastructure to put up a credible defence? Tell me, what is your 'minimum'? Is it 0.5% of GDP? 1%, 2%, 3%? G'ment spends 3.6% of GDP on defence in 2012, that too much for you?
Thanks!3Boys:
[quote=\"toddles\"]Kee chiew! I am weighing in agst egregious notions! Our beloved nation is definitely defensible, by many men who do truly believe in staying and doing so.
I have no beef with spending on the best technology that money can buy. But there is much slack that can be tightened up, not least with the sheer waste of manpower resources. Ask any male. Esp those on ICT.
Agree that there his some slack and inefficiencies in the NS system, and we can definitely do better. Shortening NS is a possible step. I have 3 boys, that would be great news to me!
But that's not to say we trim the budget to a minimum or that Singapore is not defensible, is it?
Someone is shifting positions again (not you toddles), better stop before I get accused of putting words in mouths. -
WeiHan:
And would 3% be acceptable to you? 3% is fine with me. But don;t tell me we can't defend Singapore and therefore we give up.
And I suspect with more efficiency in man power planning alone, we maybe able to cut spending in defence from 4% to 3% of GDP. That is still higher than countries such as South Korea that are in war zones with constant threat all the time. There is no need to use stones and arrows at all.toddles:
Kee chiew! I am weighing in agst egregious notions! Our beloved nation is definitely defensible, by many men who do truly believe in staying and doing so.
I have no beef with spending on the best technology that money can buy. But there is much slack that can be tightened up, not least with the sheer waste of manpower resources. Ask any male. Esp those on ICT.
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