Are you ready for 7 million people on tiny Singapore?
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sunflower:
With regards to defence, let’s just say that we do not wish to be in a situation like Kuwait, where Iraq could just march in and take over within 2 days. Even the allies were unable to respond in time. People in Kuwait had to suffer for months before US forces were able to render help to deliver them.
You cannot really compare Singapore to Kuwait.
Kuwait's military expenditure just before Iraq invasion was around 8-10% of GDP (just check this data in the link I provide). It didn't stop Iraq from running over kuwait in 2 days.
Fast forward today, Kuwait just spend 4.4% of GDP in military expenditure despite the lesson they got. But the lower% in spending didn't attract another aggressor.
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?page=4 -
Just relax:
The comments on cyber warfare reminds me of this....One of the world’s largest underground spy centres in the USA (under Utah desert) will be opened next year. The use of D-Wave One quantum computer makes crunching data super duper fast and efficient.
…
The defence spending of Asian countries will go up for a variety of reasons. I had mentioned not only hostile military action but also terrorism. I however forgot to mention cyber warfare. Many countries military are expanding their electronic warfare capabilities to deal with cyber warfare and it appears that it is the military in the various countries that are tasked with the defence against cyber warfare. Protection of the electronic networks of airports, television and radio stations, power stations, MRT, ports, banks, etc. require the expertise and involvement of the military.
My point is, humans are able to invent such powerful computers for spying purposes, and I’m sure if we invest enough time and resources, super robots or machineries can be created to help humans do a lot of mundane stuff and boost productivity, that ultimately, we may not need THAT many people in a country’s population.
All it takes is some out-of-the-box thinking, creativity with technology expertise to produce innovations that’ll amaze the world. Just an example, 50 years ago, who would have imagined that palm-sized smart phones would be used by so many people now?
I feel that we should not possess only one-way-track thinking that increasing population is the ONLY way to achieve desired growth. With re-structuring, re-engineering, creative innovations etc, who knows, (and may Singapore be the first to be able to prove it), we may be able to overcome the problem of population dilemma after all! -
sunflower:
Growing through innovation and increased productivity isn't a new idea. Easy way out by increasing population isn't something new and creative too.
My point is, humans are able to invent such powerful computers for spying purposes, and I’m sure if we invest enough time and resources, super robots or machineries can be created to help humans do a lot of mundane stuff and boost productivity, that ultimately, we may not need THAT many people in a country’s population.
All it takes is some out-of-the-box thinking, creativity with technology expertise to produce innovations that’ll amaze the world. Just an example, 50 years ago, who would have imagined that palm-sized smart phones would be used by so many people now?
I feel that we should not possess only one-way-track thinking that increasing population is the ONLY way to achieve desired growth. With re-structuring, re-engineering, creative innovations etc, who knows, (and may Singapore be the first to be able to prove it), we may be able to overcome the problem of population dilemma after all!
S. Korea with one of the world lowest fertility rate and the fastest aging population did not succumb to using wanton immigration policy to\"bypass\" their problem. In their version of \"population white paper\" , immigrants will only constitute 6% of their population by 2030 compare to 2% presently. They too have business lobby pressurising their government to open the floodgate for cheaper labors but their government is sensible enough not to betray the majority by pleasing minority elites. Instead, they ambarking on a path of innovation and increase productivity with minimal augmentation from carefully selected immigrants.
http://singaporemind.blogspot.sg/2013/02/s-korea-growing-economy-through.html -
WeiHan:
Well, I’m not a military expert and I’m not going to argue about what’s the best GDP expenditure for defence.sunflower:
With regards to defence, let’s just say that we do not wish to be in a situation like Kuwait, where Iraq could just march in and take over within 2 days. Even the allies were unable to respond in time. People in Kuwait had to suffer for months before US forces were able to render help to deliver them.
You cannot really compare Singapore to Kuwait.
Kuwait's military expenditure just before Iraq invasion was around 8-10% of GDP (just check this data in the link I provide). It didn't stop Iraq from running over kuwait in 2 days.
Fast forward today, Kuwait just spend 4.4% of GDP in military expenditure despite the lesson they got. But the lower% in spending didn't attract another aggressor.
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?page=4
All I’m saying is that our SAF better be adequately prepared, whether it’s in terms of spending, re-structuring, training, or even investing in cyber warfare, so that we would not end up in a situation like Kuwait.
In any case, our geographical positioning with respect to the neighbouring countries is quite similar to Kuwait. In fact, I was surprised that Iraq would even invade a country of their own kind, their close ally during the Iraq-Iran war.
As for Kuwait's reduced GDP military expenditure, well, don't think they need to spend as much as before. In addition to having US forces around the region, Iraq had been badly hit by the US. With sanctions and what not, am not sure whether Iraq is even able to restore their military strength to before the invasion. -
JannettLee:
I don't understand your logic of using Taiwan as an example. No country would attack Taiwan as that would be like attacking China. So please use a more logical example. I believe you understand the 1 country 2 system concept that China uses for Taiwan, HK and Macau. If not I will provide a link for u to understand that concept.Just relax:
In 2010 Brunei with a population of 405,000 had 3.2% of GDP, Singapore with a population 10x Brunei had 3.7% in 2010. That is why % of GDP is inaccurate. A small country like Brunei living in the same part of the world spends proportionately more than Singapore. There must be a reason. Deterrence.
I gave you 2012 data and you die die still want to use 2010 data! LOL
OK, it's ok since the number does not change much.
Isn't Taiwan's population about 5X Singapore's, 0.015% China's and yet they are in the war threat zone all the time but they had only 2.1% GDP which is same as China's % of GDP. Singapore is not even close to any of the same situation as Taiwan but spend 3.6% in 2012. Why le? Our so called neighbors (by 3Boys's definition) spend lesser than Singapore and even little amount as compared to their population!
As for Brunei, whether it is 2010 or 2012 is irrelevant. The point is Brunei is prepared to spend to protect its small nation of 405,000, why should we expect our government to do any less for our 4 million?
I am not bothered about % of GDP and neither am I bothered about what Korea, etc spend. I am not Korean, Taiwanese etc, I am Singaporean and understand the threats this country faces, economically or otherwise and what the country needs to do to survive.
Everybody can talk till the cows come home about minimum spending but it is nothing more than the blind leading the blind. Better to talk about something that everybody can actually talk sensibly with personal knowledge or an idea of what is actually happening out there. :rotflmao: -
Just relax:
I don't understand your logic of using Taiwan as an example. No country would attack Taiwan as that would be like attacking China. So please use a more logical example. I believe you understand the 1 country 2 system concept that China uses for Taiwan, HK and Macau. If not I will provide a link for u to understand that concept.JannettLee:
[quote=\"Just relax\"]In 2010 Brunei with a population of 405,000 had 3.2% of GDP, Singapore with a population 10x Brunei had 3.7% in 2010. That is why % of GDP is inaccurate. A small country like Brunei living in the same part of the world spends proportionately more than Singapore. There must be a reason. Deterrence.
I gave you 2012 data and you die die still want to use 2010 data! LOL
OK, it's ok since the number does not change much.
Isn't Taiwan's population about 5X Singapore's, 0.015% China's and yet they are in the war threat zone all the time but they had only 2.1% GDP which is same as China's % of GDP. Singapore is not even close to any of the same situation as Taiwan but spend 3.6% in 2012. Why le? Our so called neighbors (by 3Boys's definition) spend lesser than Singapore and even little amount as compared to their population!
As for Brunei, whether it is 2010 or 2012 is irrelevant. The point is Brunei is prepared to spend to protect its small nation of 405,000, why should we expect our government to do any less for our 4 million?
I am not bothered about % of GDP and neither am I bothered about what Korea, etc spend. I am not Korean, Taiwanese etc, I am Singaporean and understand the threats this country faces, economically or otherwise and what the country needs to do to survive.
Everybody can talk till the cows come home about minimum spending but it is nothing more than the blind leading the blind. Better to talk about something that everybody can actually talk sensibly with personal knowledge or an idea of what is actually happening out there. :rotflmao:[/quote]China has declared that they will launch military attack if Taiwan dare to declare independent! What say you?
This is something to do with face and principle to China!
Overall. :slapshead:
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Brunei has oil, though. Singapore doesn’t have any natural resources.
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Mdm Koh:
Brunei has oil, though. Singapore doesn't have any natural resources.
The Brunei Times reported in 2011 that Brunei's oil and gas will last for another 80 years based on a survey done. So what is the point of having oil?
You still see Brunei prepared to spend 3.2% GDP in 2010 to protect 405,000 people. Although as I mentioned earlier the correlation with GDP is irrelevant. The point is small countries in ASEAN who can afford it will try to create a deterrent defence. There is no magic number as to what % GDP should defence be. Who knows? -
Mdm Koh:
Brunei has oil, though. Singapore doesn't have any natural resources.
I agree. Brunei has oil and that makes it an attractive and extremely lucrative target. Singapore has nothing except skyscrapers and if the aggressor shell bomb all skyscrapers down, they will have nothing but a big ruin to clear.
As someone mentioned, there is a heartware issue. By 2030, less than half of population are citizens. Asking them to sacrifice to defend the country that is majority foreigners, defend what? They just lose out in an opportunity for job interview because of a reservist training.
Most people experience for NS is that they spend 25% of the time in real action, maybe 25-40% of the time in maintenance of equipment, training and preparing including rest, the remaining time is spend waiting for something to happen (waste of time). That is why I said, more efficient manpower alone maybe able to bring the spending down by a fraction of a percent to 1%. -
r2learn:
I have one quarrel with this article. At times, the author seems to confuse first/second generation Singaporeans with expats/foreigners.This article by Adam Khoo ... is a nice read that states about
eventually 'Expats will rule Singapore \" if we as Singaporeans don't change our ways!
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