Unfair treatment in Math

[Picolo]

skyjuice:

Thanks, all!

skyjuice, I'm sure your son will make it to a better class next year. Jia you!

[Picolo]

buds:

skyjuice:

In DS's school, higher ability classes learn more Math in terms of more challenging work and content. But at the end of the day, the whole level is tested on the same paper. Without doubt, lower ability classes can't handle the chellengers cos they were not taught them in the first place! I wonder if other schools experience this?

Brenda10:

May be. In DD school the top two classes are using the more challenging workbook/worksheet than the others classes.

In my DDs' school as well. On top of more challenging books, separate
higher ability Math worksheets as well. Naturally when tested on same
level playing field, the higher ability students tend to score full marks
or if not, at the very least i observed.. they're somewhere around 95.

That said, i do empathize with skyjuice's DS since the marks for that
shortfall is A LOT. :hugs: Like what the others have shared, as parents
we can provide the additional support with external resources and guide
our children with as much as they can handle.

Heard from many tutors and parents, Andrew Er's Math Books are pretty
challenging. There's also another publication from SAP, if you're keen to
check them out, skyjuice.

Good post, buds! :lol:

We all do need to empathise more with people who are caught in unpleasant situations.

[Brenda10]

Picolo:

Picolo:

Theoretically there's nothing wrong. But for those parents whose kids are in these classes, they need to know what's actually happening in the school system to help their kids realise their true potentials.

Yes. It’s important for our awareness and necessary action. .

Take another subject CL for example, during the CL Exam both the HCL and Normal CL students have to sit together for the same CL exam test paper although they attend in different classes and using the HCL text book and CL Text Book respectively.

My DD is not taking HCL but I also bought the HCL text book and activity book for reference.

[tamarind]

Picolo:

verykiasu2010:

[quote=\"skyjuice\"]In DS's school, higher ability classes learn more Math in terms of more challenging work and content. But at the end of the day, the whole level is tested on the same paper. Without doubt, lower ability classes can't handle the chellengers cos they were not taught them in the first place! I wonder if other schools experience this?

if the non-high ability were to be taught also the more challenging math, then they may end up not able to master the basic as well as not able to handle the challenging questions.

which you you prefer ? to be able to handle well the basic question and miss out the marks for the challenging questions ? or to be \"half pail of water\" for all the topics and take the risks of not scoring in all sections ?

then another grumble will be why not let them concentrate on the basic and ignore the FEW challenging questions ?

I used to analyse this logically like you. My kids are in better classes and I didn't know what exactly are being done in the average/mixed ability classes. But when so many other mums with kids from different levels and classes started describing how 'bo-chap' the Math Teachers are in the average classes, I start to realise that this has become quite a serious problem for the poor kids in the average classes. The teachers just do the bare minimal math worksheets required by the schools, with no time dedicated to some varied 'challenging/ interesting' questions. When the kids do past years' papers, the teachers just give them the answers without explanation! I used to dismiss these complaints from other parents, but when I hear similar feedback from so many others, I am beginning to believe that there is a vicious cycle for the poor kids in the average math classes. Maybe the direction of the schools are reasonable - if you are a 2.4 l car, you go faster and so I let you go more miles, learn everything etc. but you and I know you need to be exposed to all kind of road conditions in order to win the race, right? I wonder if the principals really know what are happening in the average classes? Whatever it is, I know that if my kids ever go into an average class one day, I make sure I expose them to different kinds of questions that are reasonable to appear in PSLEs.[/quote]
I have experience teaching maths in a class of mostly average students (above O levels). My only concern is to make sure that every student pass. In a class of 30+ students, I have no choice but to focus on the weaker students, whose maths are really poor. I have to repeat the basic questions many times so that they can understand. Those who have not taught students like them will not be able to understand how difficult it is to teach them.

There were 2 or 3 students who were slightly above average. They started to blame me for not helping them to get \"A\".

What can I do ? Help 2 or 3 students get \"A\", or help 20+ weak students pass ? If a student fails, he may be kicked out of school.

Average students do best when given one to one attention, especially at primary school levels. Parents have to teach them at home, or employ private tutors for them. We really cannot depend on the school teachers.

In fact, I spent all my free time giving one to one lesson to the weakest students. There are so many of them ! I honestly do not have time to give one to one lesson to help a student improve his grade from C to A.

[Lynn2]

Tamarind

Well said.
I agreed most children at home are either taught by private tutor or parents.There again, different children also source for different kind of tutors as in the ability to teach.

A teacher is not able to focus on all students in a class unless a smaller class is possible in school

tamarind:

Picolo:

[quote=\"verykiasu2010\"]if the non-high ability were to be taught also the more challenging math, then they may end up not able to master the basic as well as not able to handle the challenging questions.

which you you prefer ? to be able to handle well the basic question and miss out the marks for the challenging questions ? or to be \"half pail of water\" for all the topics and take the risks of not scoring in all sections ?

then another grumble will be why not let them concentrate on the basic and ignore the FEW challenging questions ?

I used to analyse this logically like you. My kids are in better classes and I didn't know what exactly are being done in the average/mixed ability classes. But when so many other mums with kids from different levels and classes started describing how 'bo-chap' the Math Teachers are in the average classes, I start to realise that this has become quite a serious problem for the poor kids in the average classes. The teachers just do the bare minimal math worksheets required by the schools, with no time dedicated to some varied 'challenging/ interesting' questions. When the kids do past years' papers, the teachers just give them the answers without explanation! I used to dismiss these complaints from other parents, but when I hear similar feedback from so many others, I am beginning to believe that there is a vicious cycle for the poor kids in the average math classes. Maybe the direction of the schools are reasonable - if you are a 2.4 l car, you go faster and so I let you go more miles, learn everything etc. but you and I know you need to be exposed to all kind of road conditions in order to win the race, right? I wonder if the principals really know what are happening in the average classes? Whatever it is, I know that if my kids ever go into an average class one day, I make sure I expose them to different kinds of questions that are reasonable to appear in PSLEs.

I have experience teaching maths in a class of mostly average students (above O levels). My only concern is to make sure that every student pass. In a class of 30+ students, I have no choice but to focus on the weaker students, whose maths are really poor. I have to repeat the basic questions many times so that they can understand. Those who have not taught students like them will not be able to understand how difficult it is to teach them.

There were 2 or 3 students who were slightly above average. They started to blame me for not helping them to get \"A\".

What can I do ? Help 2 or 3 students get \"A\", or help 20+ weak students pass ? If a student fails, he may be kicked out of school.

Average students do best when given one to one attention, especially at primary school levels. Parents have to teach them at home, or employ private tutors for them. We really cannot depend on the school teachers.

In fact, I spent all my free time giving one to one lesson to the weakest students. There are so many of them ! I honestly do not have time to give one to one lesson to help a student improve his grade from C to A.[/quote]

[tutormum]

IMHO, it boils down to the ability of individual students and their attitude. I have a class of high ability students who scores above 88 and obviously they have no problem with the standard lessons given and work at a faster pace, thus can be challenged. They complete all assignments on time without any reminders and I even sense that they are silently competing among themselves to be in the top league. I have another class of average students most of whom are not interested in the lessons at all and I have to stop now and then to draw their attention back to the board. :x :x In the end, a simple topic has to be repeatedly taught before they understand the BASIC concept. On top of that, they can’t work out the problems on their own and don’t even bother do any homework given. :x :x However, their attitude improve when they find that they are able to understand the concept and it’s not really that difficult at all.

To help a child in Maths, my suggestion is to catch him/her when he/she is young. Once the child is interested in Maths, everything else is easy. If not, tuition and extra lessons given will not make a child do better esp when they have been doing poorly and don’t see the point in putting in effort. Not only will their initial interest is eroded, they’ll hate Maths more and more when they see their score getting lower and lower.

[skyjuice]

buds:

Heard from many tutors and parents, Andrew Er's Math Books are pretty
challenging. There's also another publication from SAP, if you're keen to
check them out, skyjuice.

Thanks, Buds DS has been doing more Onsponge Conquer Problem Sums, Casco's Problem Sums and Fabian Ng's book. They are quite comprehensive in covering challengers too.

[Picolo]

tamarind:

Picolo:

[quote=\"verykiasu2010\"]
if the non-high ability were to be taught also the more challenging math, then they may end up not able to master the basic as well as not able to handle the challenging questions.

which you you prefer ? to be able to handle well the basic question and miss out the marks for the challenging questions ? or to be \"half pail of water\" for all the topics and take the risks of not scoring in all sections ?

then another grumble will be why not let them concentrate on the basic and ignore the FEW challenging questions ?

I used to analyse this logically like you. My kids are in better classes and I didn't know what exactly are being done in the average/mixed ability classes. But when so many other mums with kids from different levels and classes started describing how 'bo-chap' the Math Teachers are in the average classes, I start to realise that this has become quite a serious problem for the poor kids in the average classes. The teachers just do the bare minimal math worksheets required by the schools, with no time dedicated to some varied 'challenging/ interesting' questions. When the kids do past years' papers, the teachers just give them the answers without explanation! I used to dismiss these complaints from other parents, but when I hear similar feedback from so many others, I am beginning to believe that there is a vicious cycle for the poor kids in the average math classes. Maybe the direction of the schools are reasonable - if you are a 2.4 l car, you go faster and so I let you go more miles, learn everything etc. but you and I know you need to be exposed to all kind of road conditions in order to win the race, right? I wonder if the principals really know what are happening in the average classes? Whatever it is, I know that if my kids ever go into an average class one day, I make sure I expose them to different kinds of questions that are reasonable to appear in PSLEs.

Average students do best when given one to one attention, especially at primary school levels. Parents have to teach them at home, or employ private tutors for them. We really cannot depend on the school teachers.
[/quote]Totally agree. That's why I cannot expect the school teachers to improve the grades of my ds2, who is easily distracted in class. I have to put in more efforts teaching my ds2 at home.

[corneyAmber]

In many scenarios in life, not just Math, the excellent and the weakest will get the most attention. Unfortunately, the in between-band will tend to be neglected and they will tend to be left on their own to fend for themselves.


If there is forum to provide feedback or ask question, may be good to check with the school.

[Pen88n]

I know there are schools that does subject banding for the average classes. This will also help that students of certain strengths are grouped together so that they can further their strong subjects and not be held back by students weaker in the subject.


Having said that, nothing beats an "analysis" whereby the kid’s strengths and weaknesses are recognised - strengths should be "exploited" further, weaknesses can be gaps that needed to be "filled". I see this as the job of the parents who are hands-on and can coach and guide their kids along. Outsouorcing this task to tutor(s) may / may not work as tutor(s) do not know or understand the kid as well.