Smart but lazy?
-
Sun_2010:
Now the question is should I blame my parents for not administering -
Random Intermittent and Variable Punishment ?
Well, 35 yrs of age is the expiry date of the \"its all my mom's fault\".
So hmmm...
Btw, I will warn all my frinds plannng to have kids - first get that degree in Human Pschycology first.
Just Kidding
-
Reading the reviews made me laugh and with relief haha! Cos it seems almost everyone including us adults used to be like them
But seriously I could not even recall anything about myself :lol:
And yes, I agree that she is the kind of child that sees bigger pictures with surprisingly unexpected imagination. At times the things she says or does really amazes me a lot. I do think she is a genius but when it comes to carelessness and the lack of focus part, it really annoys me. (which parent doesn't? ;P)
My husband is someone who doesn't encourage caning or any physical punishments, only raising his voice, sends her to face the wall or grounds her from her favorite activities (but he doesn't adhere long enough!).
As for me, I do cane her palm but not reckless beating sort. I am however an impatient person (strange, cos I actually have patience with other people's kids!) and a pretty a**l perfectionist myself, so if there are any nitty gritty mistakes, I would have a big reaction. Sigh...
Come to think of it I have worked with children with special needs before and studied psychology but when it comes to my own kids, I am at a loss.
-
Chenonceau:
*LIKES* :ugogirl:
On the MBTI personality scales, our whole family test out to be Intuitives. Intuitives see patterns, not details. If your child is careless, there is a good chance that he/she is intuitive on the MBTI scales. There is reason to rejoice because MBTI Intuitives are the visionaries of the world. They can think conceptually, see patterns where others miss them.cherrygal:
Girls and boys behave differently and usually, it's the boys that can't focus in their early years.
I know my DS knows his stuff coz he practically got everything correct in his worksheets. Yet he got a lousy comment from the teacher who wrote \"He should pay more attention in class.\" Maybe he is just bored with what she's teaching coz he already knows them?
Unfortunately they miss details right in front of their noses. These children can copy numbers wrongly from working to answer box. Little Boy does it all the time. The Husband and I used to do it too.
I started by telling Little Boy that he was born careless because he is an Intuitive, and that this is a trait he shares with both his parents. Both The Husband and I were very careless, and till today, I will get another to read my work because I am certain to make errors that I fail to see no matter how often I read. This ensured that Little Boy felt loved despite his failing. \"Welcome to the family, son. You are careless. So are we. BUT it is still no excuse because Daddy and I fixed it. We expect you to as well.\"
I spent Primary 1 and 2 gently reminding him about his carelessness. In Primary 3, we had a series of more serious discussions. In Primary 4, I was desperate. So, I turned to something psychologists call Behavioral Modification Theory.
Okay... please don't flame me for the rest of what I am about to write.
(1) I tied every 2 careless mistakes to one stroke of cane.
(2) I communicated the link very clearly. There is nothing wrong with you. It's the behavior that needs to go.
(3) The first practice paper he did after that contained 5 mistakes. That was worth 2 strokes of cane.
(4) I showed The Husband the careless mistakes and he agreed to the caning.
(5) It was administered to bare butt in the privacy of the bedroom with no one but The Husband and I present.
(6) I hit AS HARD AS I COULD (but I am not very strong). This is important because if you don't make the pain memorable, you'll end up having to do it more often. I did not want to do it too often because after the first caning episode, I ran downstairs and trembled for a good 5 minutes. If you're built like Arnold Schwarzenegger, you may wanna go a bit easy.
(7) In the next practice paper, there was one careless mistake... I let it go.
( 8 ) In the next one, there were three careless mistakes... I said \"Give you chance. No cane.\"
(9) After that there were no more for a couple of papers. So I praise and hug and make a big fuss.
(10) Then came one paper with 3 mistakes. I gave 1 stroke but allowed him to wear a few briefs and his shorts.
(11) Then came a few with 1 or 2, and I gave chance again.
(12) Then, I administered another 1 stroke to bare butt.
This is called Random Intermittent and Variable Punishment. If you punish regularly (or cane too often) the child gets used to the pain, and once you stop caning regularly, the undesirable behavior also comes back.
However, if the child knows he should be punished, expects to be punished but doesn't know exactly WHEN it'll happen, he/she will keep on trying to extinguish the undesirable behavior just in case.
Summary
It is thus important to not cane too often... to keep it random... to tie the stroke clearly to the undesired behavior... to ensure the memory of unpleasantness is more unpleasant than the actual punishment. It is the memory that is deterrent. The intensity of remembered pain can be worse than that of actual pain.
I fixed Little Boy's carelessness in 3 sessions of caning. Session 1: 2 strokes to bare butt. Session 2: 1 stroke to protected butt. Session 3: 2 strokes to bare butt. Don't cane when angry. And when you cane, have a witness. Immediately after, please sayang the child. Keep to the principle of random, variable and intermittent. Make sure the child knows that it is the behavior that is bad, not him. Lastly, give the child years to improve before you cane. P1 is too early. It might turn him off school. Give him a nice experience of school in lower primary first... This problem can be fixed later.
Also, this is something to use only in instances where the behavior is ingrained or very unnatural. I was a careless child myself. I know how unnatural it is for me to not make careless mistakes. And later when I was being trained in personality profiling, I learnt that it is part of one's personality. You are correcting an inborn trait. That is very hard.
If you don't wanna cane, you can do something else. But whatever it is needs to be very unpleasant because carelessness is part of a personality disposition and to overcome it is not easy because it is not natural to that personality type. Create the expectation but keep the actual punishment random... and errrr... painful.
Thank you for the valuable advice
-
chic_savvy:
There is a difference between abnormal psychology (special needs kids) and normal psychology. I know very little about abnormal psychology. I'm an industrial organizational psychologist and we look into the kinda things that make normal people tick... Actually, for people interested in personality profiling a book by Paul D. Barron-Tieger and Barbara Tieger is useful and an easy read. \"The Art of SpeedReading People\".Reading the reviews made me laugh and with relief haha! Cos it seems almost everyone including us adults used to be like them
But seriously I could not even recall anything about myself :lol:
And yes, I agree that she is the kind of child that sees bigger pictures with surprisingly unexpected imagination. At times the things she says or does really amazes me a lot. I do think she is a genius but when it comes to carelessness and the lack of focus part, it really annoys me. (which parent doesn't? ;P)
My husband is someone who doesn't encourage caning or any physical punishments, only raising his voice, sends her to face the wall or grounds her from her favorite activities (but he doesn't adhere long enough!).
As for me, I do cane her palm but not reckless beating sort. I am however an impatient person (strange, cos I actually have patience with other people's kids!) and a pretty a**l perfectionist myself, so if there are any nitty gritty mistakes, I would have a big reaction. Sigh...
Come to think of it I have worked with children with special needs before and studied psychology but when it comes to my own kids, I am at a loss.
It gives a fast and superficial appreciation of the MBTI.
Caning is not a preferred method in our house. Apart from carelessness, I have come across no other behavior that cannot be corrected through other means. So yeah... your husband may be right. -
I used cane something, but my boy told me that I'm a bad mother.
I only cane mostly because of his behaviour, when he extremely naughty. I dun cane when he doesn't do his work, coz he is just p1. -
I have taught Maths to hundreds of students before, and I think that caning is the worst method to help a child who is careless.
I have helped my maths students improve to grade A from D. Definitely not by advising parents to cane them. That is the worst thing that you can do to a child. -
tamarind:
It would be nice to know other effective methods of helping careless children...I have taught Maths to hundreds of students before, and I think that caning is the worst method to help a child who is careless.
I have helped my maths students improve to grade A from D. Definitely not by advising parents to cane them. That is the worst thing that you can do to a child.Chenonceau:
I am sorry if you strongly disagree but please do be gentle with me when putting forth your dissenting views. Don't stick your tongue out even if you disagree? Please?Okay... please don't flame me for the rest of what I am about to write.
Thanks.
-
Since so many people agree with your methods in this thread, I am not going to waste my time writing what should be the correct way of teaching kids.
To all parents who think that caning is the way to go, you will definitely regret it when your kids are older. I know this because I have taught up to levels above secondary school. -
Chenonceau:
I am sorry if you strongly disagree but please do be gentle with me when putting forth your dissenting views. Don't stick your tongue out even if you disagree? Please?
Thanks.
I'm a special needs therapist.
I can't agree with caning a child over grades, esp it's about a few marks.
It's about sending the wrong signals that a few marks is worth a few strokes of cane.
I work with kids with special needs - some with very low and high IQs.
It is possible to modify behaviours without caning SUCCESSFULLY. Negative or aversive consequences are sometimes necessary. You just need to find the right \"punishment\" for the kid.
Personally, I'm comfortable with a child losing up to 10 marks (5 mistakes) due to \"carelessness\". A child's self-esteem is worth more than 10 marks.
Some parents cane but are \"fairly balanced\" in being positive. But quite a lot of parents cane readily but are hardly positive or don't really know/ understand their children.
I think Tamarind is referring to latter group. As educators, we should not agree to caning as we don't know who's reading/mis-reading the message.
*Lastly, many children with special needs, esp dyslexics, are known to be \"careless\" or are very inconsistent. Some are not diagnosed as there're no symptoms apart from \"carelessness\" and common grammatical errors in compositions. Many do not require treatment as their condition is mild. Caning may work for some but I think parents are sending the wrong signals.
Well, my kid is only 2 years old. I hope to stick by these principles
-
It is \"scary\" isn't it? Having to know and learn about the different disorders in our modern era now. In the past, the inability to recognize or spelling words wrongly are accused as careless or even stupid, kids who were overly active were deemed as uncontrollable and naughty. Now, at least we know these behaviors are actually more than that and are able to give the extra attention and appropriate treatments.
Anyways, yeah my husband ain't the caning sort because he himself had a traumatized childhood that's why he has swore he would never implement beating or physical punishments to his kids. That traumatized childhood had led him astray in his teen years instead. I think it was also because his father had overly done it and that had caused the adverse effect.
Every parents will want to have their own way of educating and nurturing their children and we can't say who's right or wrong but whatever it is, remember there will always be a consequence at later.
Back to the topic, my girl was exceptionally good today (and some other times), she did her revisions without us reminding, her work was done nicely and blah blah blah.. ONLY TODAY lah. Seriously our kids are driving us nuts! :stupid: And that at times they are pain in the a***.
Hubby is trying to cultivate her to be more independent like we don't even need to remind her to do things. She comes back from school, take her lunch and shower, check for homework, take a nap, playtime, shower and goes to sleep WITHOUT US TELLING HER (hmm).
Btw, just like to hear some opinions here. Any parents' kids here are ultra naughty and active at home but when she/he is at school (playgroup, primary, kindergarten), they become quiet, well-behaved... I know some parents like me might say \"I'd rather them be naughty at home than being naughty outside!\" Normal?
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login