Presidential Election 2011
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ksi:
You can also write on the one you hate \"I hate you\" and that would be counted too!
If based on GE guidelines, it is valid, even if you draw a \"tortoise\" on it.Way2GO:
mummyo, question on spoilt vote.
If voter puts a tick instead of a cross,
would d vote be considered spoilt or still valid?
this entry is written by one of the GE vote counters:
http://yawningbread.wordpress.com/2011/05/08/counting-agent-me/
It's quite an interesting read. -
3Boys:
Totally agree with you. I'm puzzled by comments that suggest the committee gave out more COEs this time to make it easier for TT to win, when there were hardly any contenders in the last 2 PE. It's almost like saying that both TKL and TJS were asked to run in this PE by MIW. Had TJS been denied the COE to run, wouldn't the outcry from the pro-opp be even louder in that instance?
Yeah, I'm pretty sour that TCB lost by 0.34%, but is it the fault of the PEC? How else would you expect them to choose candidates? -
Angelight:
Agree :hi5:After reading thru all 170 pages of mostly interesting and sometimes heated exchanges here, I just wanna sum up my thoughts and personal feeling of this PE.
Now that the dust has settled, I agree with JR that we shld respect the new elected president and give him a chance to 'heal the divided nation'. He had said in the post-election interview that he wants to \"reach out to all singaporeans, including those who didn't vote for him\". Give him the benefit of the doubt to do that. Let's not judge him even before he has the chance to do his part as our president.
I also agree with Chenonceau that our g'ment is not all that bad. And I'm speaking this not becos I belong to the minority elite group in spore, nor do I belong to the low-income group that often receive handouts from the g'ment. In fact, I'm from the oft neglected middle-income group that often falls thru the cracks of many g'ment policies. But seriously Spore is where it is today becos of our g'ment. At least we shld be glad that we don't have a g'ment like N Korea and Myanmar.
And I also agree with Chenonceau that we shld refrain from insulting or giving derogatory names to our g'ment or president, no matter how much grouses or dissatisfaction we have. Tolerance and grace are the first steps towards healing a divided nation. So hopefully we can begin with this.
I too belong to the 'neglected' group. However, IMO, I sincerely believe our govt is not that bad, at least the majority and the more needy ones are being taken care of. I am also thankful for what we have today.....I would consider Singaporeans as a fortunate lot as compared to so many countries that are suffering. Do give the govt & President a chance to prove themselves and not be so eager to 'catch' them. It's not easy to please a whole nation.......
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mummyo:
I would hv spoilt my votes too if that is the case..
The spolit votes are mostly spoilt intentionally. Means these people did not think that any of the 4 candidates should be the president or some couldn't decide so decided to spoil the vote.
If the choice was between TCB and TT, I would have spoilt my vote and maybe some of those who voted for TJS and TKL would have done the same. It doesn't necessarily mean that TCB will have won if TJS and TKL hasn't ran.
But, I would hv believed that TCB might win if TJS didn't run. Coz those who voted TJS is highly unlikely to vote for TT while a significant percentage might vote for TCB. Hence, the split of the 25% shd be favourable to TCB.. less the spoilt votes. -
Way2GO:
I reply based on what I read from forums from pple who are counting agents.mummyo, question on spoilt vote.
If voter puts a tick instead of a cross,
would d vote be considered spoilt or still valid?
It would be valid, as the intention is clear.
A signature would be invalid, as it could led to identification of the voter.
A tortoise would be invalid, as intention is not clear.
A cross in TT box + \"Good luck\" is valid, as intention is clear.
A \"I hate you\" is not valid as intention is not clear.
In any case, the ARO has the final say and his/her decision is final and binding.ksi:
Based on what I read from other forums, GE guidelines doesn't apply 100% to this PE.
If based on GE guidelines, it is valid, even if you draw a \"tortoise\" on it. -
concern2:
And Chenonceau, care to share how they track you down, har? Thru your computer IP address or you simply dare to publish using your real name?
In any case, Chenonceau, how did you feel when you got 'tracked down' har? Just curious - did they ask you whether you got 'personal agenda'? -
limlim:
the counting agent did say a tortoise is a valid vote - checked with a counting agent (not a tortoise) on the polling date ... but too bad I did not practise drawing tortoise ..... sigh !
I reply based on what I read from forums from pple who are counting agents.Way2GO:
mummyo, question on spoilt vote.
If voter puts a tick instead of a cross,
would d vote be considered spoilt or still valid?
It would be valid, as the intention is clear.
A signature would be invalid, as it could led to identification of the voter.
A tortoise would be invalid, as intention is not clear.
A cross in TT box + \"Good luck\" is valid, as intention is clear.
A \"I hate you\" is not valid as intention is not clear.
In any case, the ARO has the final say and his/her decision is final and binding.ksi:
Based on what I read from other forums, GE guidelines doesn't apply 100% to this PE.
If based on GE guidelines, it is valid, even if you draw a \"tortoise\" on it. -
limlim:
From what i've observed this PE (note that I've no clue what happened during GE as I wasn't a Counting Agent then), ANY sort of marking will count towards the Candidate if that is the ONLY marking on the ballot paper. Eg, even if you write a curse word, draw a tortoise, put a tick, draw a circle, heart whatever as long as it is not a signature, it is counted as going towards that Candidate. Mind you, this marking can be on the name of the candidate, his photo, his symbol. Does not even need to be in the box where the cross is supposed to be in. They will allow it as long as there's no any other marking on other candidates strip.
I reply based on what I read from forums from pple who are counting agents.Way2GO:
mummyo, question on spoilt vote.
If voter puts a tick instead of a cross,
would d vote be considered spoilt or still valid?
It would be valid, as the intention is clear.
A signature would be invalid, as it could led to identification of the voter.
A tortoise would be invalid, as intention is not clear.
A cross in TT box + \"Good luck\" is valid, as intention is clear.
A \"I hate you\" is not valid as intention is not clear.
In any case, the ARO has the final say and his/her decision is final and binding.ksi:
Based on what I read from other forums, GE guidelines doesn't apply 100% to this PE.
If based on GE guidelines, it is valid, even if you draw a \"tortoise\" on it.
Signature is spoilt vote as that identifies the voter. I heard in the GE that if there's a tick on one and cross on the other, some award it to the tick as intention is clear but some award it to the cross as the rightful marking is a cross.
However, this time I observed that once there is any sort of marking on 2 different candidates area then it is void. I've seen crosses that are in between 2 candidates strip on the ballot paper and those are void. Also void are crosses that are out of the box that eats into the other candidates strip. Although during the recount, the respective agents might have argued that the MIDDLE point of the cross should determine which candidate gets the vote.
Basically, there's no hard and fast rule and although most of the residing officers are VERY fair, there are some iffy ones and it also depends on how many counting agents there are. PAP will usually mobilised all the the RC and PA members to be Counting Agents. Each team/candidate can field one agent at each table and in every counting place there are about 3 to 5 tables.
For eg. for this PE, TT has one agent at each table (a total of 5 agents) at my counting centre whereas TJS has only 2 agents and TKL had NONE. As we rely on volunteers to come forward to help, this time we just didn't have enough agents to field 5 at each location so I had to run from table to table the whole night when the Residing Officer are alloting the iffy votes. Sometimes they just went ahead without all representatives present so I might have lost out some votes for TJS in those instances. And it's strength in numbers, you know what I mean, if all gang up, tell the RO that that vote is for them and no representative to fight for TKL then who do you think will get that iffy vote? :evil: :evil:
But thank goodness everybody was gracious at my centre so I can say that the process is very fair. I wasn't back for the recount as it didn't really change things for TJS. For all I know, things might have gotten ugly between TT and TCB's agents. From what I saw, I knew TCB couldn't have gotten round the 7000 vote deficit. As it was very fair, there would be no way they could have found 7000 iffy votes that were \"wrongly rejected\" and awarded them to TCB. -
Anyway..
http://www.elections.gov.sg/pdf/Guide%20for%20Counting%20Agents.pdf
5.10
As for whether the \"intention\" is clear.. that would be subjective thou.. esp in the case of tortoises.. -
JonC:
Practically everybody I know who would give me truthful answer (just under 20 people) cast their vote for TCB, and practically all of them said they would not have voted for TJS. I grant you, it is a small sample, but very telling, I feel, of what folk of my type of demographic would have voted.
Disagree with ...would not... statement, this will never happen, there are fence sitter who are slight pro PAP and some pro Opp.3Boys:
... if TCB did not stand, Dr TT's vote share would have been much higher as I believe many of those who voted for TCB would not have switched their votes to TJS or TKL.
...
At best TT will get similar statistic like the GE or maybe less for some unpopular things done after GE.
At the end of the day, despite all the sound and fury, TJS did WORSE at this PE than for the GE, where he got nearly 40% of popular vote as part of Holland-Bukit Timah GRC SDP team.
I.e., where there is a moderate alternative, like a ex-PAP stalwart (TCB), with some semblance of independence, he would be the preferred candidate as opposed to a strident opposition voice.
TCB drew far more votes away from TT than he did from TJS, no question in my mind.
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