Is GEP really necessary?
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Mawar:
there are at least 4500 places in IP schools, based on average intake of mostly 450 per school, plus some intake at 200, for a total of 11 IP schools.Is GEP really necessary?
If it's designed to cater to kids with special needs, yes.
If the intention is to groom leaders or specialists in a developing country to raise the quality of the human resource, yes. But Singapore has progressed beyond this need.
Unfortunately, the GEP is used as a guaranteed passport to an elite education. This is the grand prize that pushes all parents to overdrive.
So much is invested in so few, and these few are given the best tools and resources. And at the end of P6, the same students fight an unfair placement fight with the GEPpers given an almost confirmed DSA. The leftover places in coveted secondary schools forces parents to a feeding frenzy.
GEP students == even if all get into IP schools, form only about 500, boys and girls added up ..... not even 20% of the available places in IP schools. Definitely no feeding frenzy.
Frenzy to get into the top 10% of each PSLE cohort could be true .... but then this is normal distribution curve liao ....PSLE is a placement exam, not a test of academic prowess or knowledge -
2ppaamm:
For his case, I believe the GE branch or the school should have done more to put him into a better school. After all, in those days, there were probably only a handful of independent schools and there were still many good schools normal fee.
Ok, not IP school. School which school fees was $200+ then. Independent school?
I'll share a little about what he said.
He told me he felt out of place all these years in GEP because he was gifted in Humanities and not Science and Math. It exasperated the teachers, he could not cope at all with those subjects. But wow, his humanities was like really fantastic. So his teachers had wanted him to drop out of GEP at secondary school because of his science /maths subjects. However, he comes from a very poor family, and if they were to remove him from GEP, he would have to go to a neighbourhood school, because the school fees in his school was $200+, and his family could not afford that. So his teachers help him stay in GEP until Sec 4.
This student then went and signed on with SAF after A levels. He returned to school after his contract to finish his tertiary education after he earned enough to put himself through university.
As true as it can get.
Anything else to pick?
In today's world, he will have no chance of GEP, go to an independent school, but making it to uni? Maybe, if he did not go astray. -
toddles:
Perhaps the question then should not be whether or not the GEP should exist, but whether the \"corrupting\" elements can be weeded out.
Er... but IQ tests can definitely be prep. Easily. Just do and do and do lots of IQ tests. There are standard ways of doing IQ tests, just like GA tests.2ppaamm:
[quote=\"Trapwithin\"]
I do not think GEP is required to let a gifted child excel, have seen many gifted kids that excel extremely well in University though they were not in GEP. However, GEP does provide interesting curriculum for gifted kids to keep their minds stretched and stimulate their thinking.
IMHO, almost all GEP Prep classes .. are marketing gimick. They filtered their intake and displayed the success rate based on the GEP Screening Test rather than Selection Test, which is the top 10% of the cohort. GA papers in GEP selection Test are similar to IQ test though not totally. GA cannot be prep or drill like most IQ Test. You either see the question and understand or you don't.
The only part that can probably be prep are the EL and Maths paper which contribute to 50% of the Selection Test. Yet these papers are benchmark way beyond the kids level. With such elevated level, the kids themselves will need to have the ability to understand these higher level concept. Not all kids can handle concepts or principles beyond their level.
So technically, you can't really prep for GEP.
Just as IQ Test cannot really be prep, so GEP Selection Test is the same.
While it is agreed that you cannot gear a child who is at the bottom of the class to a GEP level, preparations can definitely help differentiate and give an edge to who passed the screening test get through. Those who prep will certainly have an edge over those who didn't.
For instance, it's not the fault of the GEP that kiasu parents make their kids go for GEP prep classes.
Perhaps the distillation process can be refined - throw in interviews? to separate the muggertoads from those who really have different needs.
parents will always be parents. there will be the show-offs (recall the first Amy Chua's Joy Luck Club?), sour-grapes etc, perhaps even more so since we are a very asian society. But we should aspire to rise above such behaviour in and of itself... it's really nothing to do with getting rid of the GEP to eradicate such behaviour. a bit of throwing baby out with bathwater, no?[/quote]smurf:
Like I mentioned earlier, having parents go into a GEP prep class frenzy is not a good enough reason to abolish the GEP.but this will result in parents putting their children into those GEP-preparation class...to 'force' their kids to be GEP-ers. can't blame them, its rat race after all.
if u r gifted, you are gifted, why need preparation class?
If the problem is with fake-hot-housed \"GEP\" kids taking up spaces when they are just muggertoads instead of truly special needs gifted, then better selection processes might be it? Like I mentioned earlier, perhaps throw in an interview? Afterall, it's somewhat a scholarship with taxpayers money and all the other scholarships require face to face interviews.
Another suggestion to refine the selection / admission process. Instead of requiring more, require LESS. If we are prepared to be really drastic, and deal the tuition industry a significant overall blow, make GEP admission conditional on having the parents and the child sign a declaration that they have not undergone ANY FORM OF TUITION since P1.
In the old days, most GEPers had zero tuition anyway.
Like smurf said, if you're gifted, you're gifted, should be in the least need of tuition.
Although I do acknowledge that tuition these days are geared towards coping within the crazy MOE testing system. So for those who are truly gifted whose parents are brave enough to eschew the whole system, just go the no-tuition route, and qualify when the time comes.
For those kiasu hot-house loving parents, they might also die die want a chance to be GEP elite mamas and papas, so they might risk not having any tuition to qualify.
And after the declaration if there is any evidence to show that they child had tuition, then like false declaration of address for P1 registration, there must be severe penalties.
how? like my suggestion or not? -
if a child doesn’t attend any external tuition centre, don’t forget there are parents out there who are teachers themselves. They can still "tuition" their own kid at home.
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phtthp:
if a child doesn't attend any external tuition centre, don't forget there are parents out there who are teachers themselves. They can still \"tuition\" their own kid at home.
now THAT would be hard to negate.
what to do? can't quite institutionalise everyone in orphanages. -
Was wondering aloud, If the gep tests are a good selection tools, how can the ‘hothouse’ kids take up the place of those gifted one, yes iq questions can be trained but those gifted ones somehow will still manage the tests n ace them unless there is a quota in gep then it will be a different story altogether. So let give those parents that desperate to get their kids into the programme some due respect too. After all we should respect individual choice. There is no right and wrong n parents being parents all have the best intention for their kids …
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:goodpost:
Suz855:
I am actually pro GEP( my kid in mainstream ), these kids love independent work n show great passion in the area they are interested in. They need facilitator n not teachers. However, high ability or hardworking kid like my girl, they still need to be taught the fundamental to help them see lights... Throwing them project n independent work (teach less learn more) simply stress us .
:goodpost: This will surface when they enter IP programme in sec school. -
toddles:
Donch like that part on interview.
how? like my suggestion or not?
We adults also donch like interview so why put these young kids thru it? Also, some of them may be 'thinkers' more than 'talkers', so u will also lose some truly gifted in this process. -
toddles:
Love your suggestion.
Like I mentioned earlier, having parents go into a GEP prep class frenzy is not a good enough reason to abolish the GEP.
If the problem is with fake-hot-housed \"GEP\" kids taking up spaces when they are just muggertoads instead of truly special needs gifted, then better selection processes might be it? Like I mentioned earlier, perhaps throw in an interview? Afterall, it's somewhat a scholarship with taxpayers money and all the other scholarships require face to face interviews.
Another suggestion to refine the selection / admission process. Instead of requiring more, require LESS. If we are prepared to be really drastic, and deal the tuition industry a significant overall blow, make GEP admission conditional on having the parents and the child sign a declaration that they have not undergone ANY FORM OF TUITION since P1. In the old days, most GEPers had zero tuition anyway.
Like smurf said, if you're gifted, you're gifted, should be in the least need of tuition.
Although I do acknowledge that tuition these days are geared towards coping within the crazy MOE testing system. So for those who are truly gifted whose parents are brave enough to eschew the whole system, just go the no-tuition route, and qualify when the time comes.
For those kiasu hot-house loving parents, they might also die die want a chance to be GEP elite mamas and papas, so they might risk not having any tuition to qualify.
And after the declaration if there is any evidence to show that they child had tuition, then like false declaration of address for P1 registration, there must be severe penalties.
how? like my suggestion or not?
2 birds with one stone - no prepped students in GEP and lower P students not forced into tution.
During the interview just ask the child. Most children cant lie under scrutiny. -
Nebbermind:
The interview should not be access intelligence, more pschycological.
Donch like that part on interview.toddles:
how? like my suggestion or not?
We adults also donch like interview so why put these young kids thru it? Also, some of them may be 'thinkers' more than 'talkers', so u will also lose some truly gifted in this process.
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