MrsKiasu\" post_id=\"2041913\" time=\"1634019047\" user_id=\"43981:

There are many shops esp the older estates have row of shops of almost everything we want to buy. Supermarkets in mall still can go?

Supermarkets also have quite a few outside the mall.

Supermarkets in malls cannot go. Anyway I also try not to go supermarkets during this time. 90% of my grocery is ordered from Amazon. The other 10% I just quickly drop by Cold Storage and M&S near closing time to get their clearance stuff.

starlight1968sg\" post_id=\"2041919\" time=\"1634019480\" user_id=\"14025:

lee_yl\" post_id=\"2041914\" time=\"1634019274\" user_id=\"17023:

Maybe all those vaccinated and passed on due to COVID, 100% took Pfizer? This area, I can say Malaysia is more transparent than SG.

In this way, as a layman, we can sense which is more helpful in preventing an infected vaccinated from dying of covid.

Data seems to point out to Moderna as the better vaccine. Considering to take that as a booster shot.

pirate\" post_id=\"2041885\" time=\"1634014196\" user_id=\"66252:

Dreamaurora\" post_id=\"2041875\" time=\"1634011574\" user_id=\"38907:

[quote=pirate post_id=2041848 time=1634005011 user_id=66252]
Citation please.

Might as well say that the scores of dead vaccinated people in Singapore would probably disagree with vaccination altogether, with that kind of politically motivated logic.

Thank you for helping to spread vaccine disinformation.

It was reported in Straits Times.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/indonesia-reports-record-number-of-doctor-deaths-from-covid-19-in-july

I don't deny that unfortunately even the MRNA vaccines do not guarantee Covid survival, but there's a reason why the neighboring countries immediately administer MRNA vaccines as booster to their healthcare workers as soon as they are available.

I do agree that the government should have given the option of non-MRNA much earlier. Less protection is still better than no protection. But you and me know PAP is very much risk averse and only implement policies after they gather datas from other countries.

I knew you were going to refer to that Straits Times article. So where in the article does it say how many of the doctors who died were fully vaccinated and how many were not, never mind with which vaccine?

The last numbers were 20 out of 401 of doctors who died were vaccinated, with 95% of medical personnel vaccinated back on 18 July 2021. Then the MSM gave up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/25/world/asia/indonesia-covid-sinovac.html[/quote]The NYtimes article was dated June and the Straits Times article was dated 18 July. By end of June probably safe to assume that maybe close to 90% of the doctors were fully vaccinated with Sinovac. Even so, there was a spike of 114 doctors who died from early July to 17 July, and probably quite a few more by the end of July (no article to back this up though) coinciding with the spread of Delta. So we can probably draw the conclusion here that Sinovac is far less effective than MRNAs. Contrast this with Singapore who only had the very first medical worker fatality a few days ago. Even assuming that this might be because Singapore's medical care is top notch, surely we expect at least one or two dead doctors or nurses jabbed with MRNA by by now right? In any case, it seems your mind is made up about MRNA vaccines, if that is what you believe than you are entitled to that opinion.

pirate\" post_id=\"2041848\" time=\"1634005011\" user_id=\"66252:

Dreamaurora\" post_id=\"2041843\" time=\"1634004493\" user_id=\"38907:

[quote=pirate post_id=2041813 time=1633994144 user_id=66252]
Unfortunately, this is the real life cost of playing vaccine politics and dragging our feet in approving non-mRNA vaccines.

Well, the hundreds of dead doctors in Indonesia who took Sinovac would probably disagree with you.

Citation please.

Might as well say that the scores of dead vaccinated people in Singapore would probably disagree with vaccination altogether, with that kind of politically motivated logic.

Thank you for helping to spread vaccine disinformation.[/quote]It was reported in Straits Times.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/indonesia-reports-record-number-of-doctor-deaths-from-covid-19-in-july

I don't deny that unfortunately even the MRNA vaccines do not guarantee Covid survival, but there's a reason why the neighboring countries immediately administer MRNA vaccines as booster to their healthcare workers as soon as they are available.

I do agree that the government should have given the option of non-MRNA much earlier. Less protection is still better than no protection. But you and me know PAP is very much risk averse and only implement policies after they gather datas from other countries.

pirate\" post_id=\"2041813\" time=\"1633994144\" user_id=\"66252:

lee_yl\" post_id=\"2041801\" time=\"1633965991\" user_id=\"17023:

Heard he is a super 养生 type person, thus no mRNA vaccine for him.

It’s not that he only wanted to stop at 1 dose, he was waiting to take his 2nd dose of Sinopharm.

Unfortunately, he caught the virus before he could be fully vaccinated (2 weeks after 2nd dose to be effective).

Unfortunately, this is the real life cost of playing vaccine politics and dragging our feet in approving non-mRNA vaccines.

Well, the hundreds of dead doctors in Indonesia who took Sinovac would probably disagree with you.

starlight1968sg\" post_id=\"2039460\" time=\"1632626893\" user_id=\"14025:

Other countries are facing the highly transmissible delta variant too. Ours seem spiral out of control.
I think besides this variant, there are certainly other factors which lead to the high number of local community cases, dorm cases etc.
Extensive testing is one factor as the more we test, the more we see new cases.
But is not testing is an apprioriate way to go, given that the current strain is highly transmissible?
More pple eat out can be another bec before 5 to dine, the number of cases was still ok.
I am no expert but I cant help to doubt on the vaccines we took; no or mild symptoms and hence carriers are not easily detected. Is this good news?

I don't think it's spiraling out of control, but rather that Singapore is probably a much more accurate indication of the transmission rate for an urban area. That is because of the aggressive testing and people's general willingness to visit GP even if they have mild symptom. My helper's entire family had contracted COVID in Philippines and all of them did not visit doctors and self-medicated at home, hence obviously they were not in the COVID tally. I imagine this is the case also for Western countries who are embracing endemic living like Denmark.

I predict the official COVID tally will actually decrease in the next two weeks. I don't think it will be because of the current imposed restrictions, but more like the country is correcting itself to follow the practices of other endemic countries, meaning only include positive PCR results that have more serious symptoms. But in reality, the actual infection rate might be even higher.

starlight1968sg\" post_id=\"2039330\" time=\"1632492280\" user_id=\"14025:

sevenseals\" post_id=\"2039327\" time=\"1632491962\" user_id=\"124401:

[quote=Zappy post_id=2039314 time=1632486142 user_id=134817]
But now we have 23 ICU cases and already we are going back to tighter restrictions. If so, when or rather, what conditions would be deemed safe enough for Singapore to get back to some form of a normal life - cases below 100/ day, and zero ICU? That's realistically never going to happen as long as this thing is around and we attempt to open up to the world.

Not true.
In fact,
Some form of normal life is happening in Denmark, Sweden, Qatar, UAE, Italy, France, Germany where they are on the mend after opening, or approaching flattening of curve.

There might be something these countries have that is missing in Sg's opening strategy

These countries hv a lot of infected cases earlier and they hv paid the price. Our cases are not a lot by comparison[/quote]Yes, a lot of Western countries had high fatalities among the vulnerable groups earlier on.

The vulnerable ones in Singapore are just beginning to be exposed to the virus and it seems like for some of them are not going to make it despite the vaccination. I am getting the feeling that the MTF is trying to find a sweet spot for a combination of restrictions that would keep the case number at a stable number instead of a continual increase. But seriously, with basically most of the world trying to go the endemic route, the virus is going to be around years from now.

starlight1968sg\" post_id=\"2039308\" time=\"1632484580\" user_id=\"14025:

Dreamaurora\" post_id=\"2039307\" time=\"1632484130\" user_id=\"38907:

[quote=Zappy post_id=2039302 time=1632481792 user_id=134817]

That is true indeed... sigh.

One problem with this yo-yo is that once things semi-open-up again on 24 Oct, everyone will be feel so cooped up that many will cheong out again to pack the restaurants etc. Then a couple of weeks later, cases start creeping up and voila, the vicious cycle continues.

Precisely lor. Western countries cases in 5 digits they really embrace that endemic living, but don’t know why MTF is kiasi.

I can understand and it is reasonable to kiasi.
If the infected are our loved ones, we wont be so calm and rational.[/quote]But eventually the cases will go up again when the restrictions are eased and the risk is still there. I also got 3 kids but I don’t want them to grow up living in fear. I just have faith that everything will be all right

Zappy\" post_id=\"2039302\" time=\"1632481792\" user_id=\"134817:

starlight1968sg\" post_id=\"2039301\" time=\"1632481634\" user_id=\"14025:

On one hand, we want to be safe and this is obvious.
One the other hand, we want to open up and this is normal bec we cant be close forever.

What left will be just to tweak the measures lor... Nothing new

That is true indeed... sigh.

One problem with this yo-yo is that once things semi-open-up again on 24 Oct, everyone will be feel so cooped up that many will cheong out again to pack the restaurants etc. Then a couple of weeks later, cases start creeping up and voila, the vicious cycle continues.

Precisely lor. Western countries cases in 5 digits they really embrace that endemic living, but don’t know why MTF is kiasi.

lee_yl\" post_id=\"2039215\" time=\"1632439274\" user_id=\"17023:

starlight1968sg\" post_id=\"2039214\" time=\"1632437835\" user_id=\"14025:

What measures can the govt implement to stop the current deadly wave?

For elderly, can impose temporary ban on dining in for those above 60yo regardless of vaccination status.

Restrict dining in to 1pax only. This will limit the time when mask is off.

27th Sep HBL will start for P1 to P5, so not too bad.

Dormitories that side, the authorities have to further tighten lor.

Finally… Complete lockdown HA/CB for at least 3 weeks to bring the numbers down, but of cos, we try to avoid that, if not, forever we will be stuck in this cycle.

The economic and social impact of lockdowns/CBs are too great at this point. Last year already the suicide rate among elderlies are at record high. I wager the lockdowns indirectly killed more elderlies than the COVID itself. I think pretty sure you will need more than 3 weeks to bring down the number, and then when the number spikes again when economy and travel open up must keep repeating the cycle to keep the number in check. If government does that, I am pretty sure they are going to lose a sizable amount of votes in the next election. Easy to ask lockdown when you are sure your job is not affected but for me any lockdown means loss of income. I got no money from government from the last 2HA so I sure as hell do not want any more lockdown.

I guess everybody's getting the jitter because it's the first time the case numbers have shot up dramatically. Those in Western countries have experienced the worst so they are actually glad life has somewhat return the normal despite their cases still in 5 or 6 digits a day.