About begin to shred and therapeutically remove any evidence of PSLE from the house 🙃. Any suggestions of what to do w all that paper (apart from throwing it away) or places to donate partly used assessment books etc?

Regarding university admissions and coveted courses like Medicine. I think it’s worthwhile to note that globally the trend is that Medicine is becoming a Post Graduate degree.


In the US it is only available as a Postgrad Degree. Stanford University has a Medicine and The Muse program which is dedicated to medicine, arts and humanities. In fact, there are 10 Medical schools for non-science majors in the US where at least 19% of the entering students majored in Humanities or Social Sciences.

“Science helps us understand the fundamental workings of the human body and mind, but we need to look beyond science to make sense of things like suffering, love, hate and hope,\" he says. \"I believe the arts provide a unique window into ourselves and the human condition. This understanding provides profound benefits to us as individuals and to those we serve.” (Dean of Stanford University School of Medicine, Dr Lloyd Minor about why the Arts are important in Medicine)

Australia too is leaning this way with the University of Sydney Medicine only available as a postgraduate combined degree; Bachelor of Arts and Doctor of Medicine or Bachelor of Science and Doctor of Medicine.

In Singapore, Duke NUS Medicine also does NOT require Double Science and follows the global trend of postgraduate Med entry which values a student who has studied broadly, and holistically.

But historically, especially in Asia, there has always been the mindset of “Science vs Arts” and therefore those that have “no choice” but to choose Arts are not as “academically brilliant”. This drives traditionalists to continue to prioritize STEM subjects irrespective of whether a student is suited to it, in a hope that this keeps STEM-based careers as an option, in a misguided belief that a science-based career (like Med) carries more prestige perhaps.

It also doesn’t consider the plasticity of global university admission processes.

Entry into Medicine globally also lies in a student’s performance firstly in the BMAT or UCAT, followed by their performance in the interview round. Weightage for performance in UCAT tests and end results (IB or equivalent) is equal in most universities. Often invitations to interviews are granted before results are even released and are based purely on a student’s UCAT/BMAT result. Some degrees specify that actual results will only be considered if a student interview is successful and their UCAT/BMAT is competitive.

One needs to also keep in mind that the advertised IB/ A Level/ equivalent score is merely a minimum standard and that competition drives a much high entry point (incl IB score) in reality. So essentially, competition will always determine that elusive magic “entry point” which is not transparent, since simply hitting the “mark” is not enough for these “coveted” courses.

Following on, the reason local universities hold themselves to higher standards at admissions is not necessarily because the local course requires that level of depth, but because of the sheer levels of competition due to the high standards of MOE schools, and the need to sift out the “academically brilliant” from the higher standard of education in general. Some have argued that the “academically brilliant” would perform well in any system, and global universities recognize this. Therefore the UCAT and BMAT serve effectively as an IQ filter for entry into Med irrespective of academic results. So perhaps those that do not make it into local or overseas universities should not be arguing that the bar for entry is too high or low, or that one system is better than the other, but should look at perhaps other factors which could possibly have contributed to a rejection like intrinsic intelligence and soft skills which the UCAT/BMATs and multiple interview rounds are designed to find.

Perhaps those who have a great depth of knowledge may not have a chance to show it if they are not able to demonstrate soft skills in interviews or perform in UCAT/BMAT even to be considered. But if a student is holistic, presents well and scores well on UCAT then the potential to go deep has been proven. Perhaps a student that doesn’t have tuition is not a reflection of an easier system but that the skill of independent study has been acquired and this is evident in the vetting process for Uni admissions. Perhaps the constant reflections and essay reports for every subject (including Maths) and critical argumentative essays all have an intrinsic value which is evident in written applications for courses like Law.

For those interested in the history of independent schools and Intl schools in SG, the concept of meritocracy in the early 2000’s contributed to an exodus of talent for those that could afford to leave for alternative education. The Gov formed an Economic Reform Committee to look into education as an investment in human capital, with a view to making SG more globally competitive. Independent schools and alternative curriculums were partly introduced to retain students who were exiting for an overseas education due to the competitiveness of SG Education. Meritocracy was also seen as a barrier to entry for foreigners into local schools (Vidovich, L., & Sheng, Y. M. (2008). Global-local dynamics in expanding school choice in Singapore. na). Globalisation and neo-liberal policies also play a part.

On this contentious issue of the profile of an “academically brilliant” student. The DSA process in most IP schools involves an interview and an IQ Test, including entry into the much-maligned SOTA. So, the assumption that an Arts student is not “academically brilliant” is quite naive. Whilst the minimum requirement for entry into SOTA is to qualify for express, each year there are about 3 classes that scored roughly in the range of 240-270’s. There are many in SOTA who scored as high as 27X who entered SOTA because they are both artistically and academically gifted. In fact, there are many who are gifted in Sports and Arts and also “academically brilliant”. Kyra Poh our National Athlete who put SG on the map after winning Gold for Sky Diving at age 14 was a SOTA grad for Visual Arts. There are dancers who also represent SG for football. Those that are not suited for IB usually exit by the end of Y4, similarly, in SSP there are many who do not ultimately qualify for IB and take alternative curriculums offered by the school or are recommended to take 3 years instead of 2 years for IB.

An efficient society is comprised of a set of diversely talented people, that have come from many different pathways. We should be thankful that not everyone that scores 42 and above thus qualifying for Medicine decides to choose Medicine or the world would be much poorer for it. Even the argument that some will be most suited for one system or the other is flawed intrinsically since ironically we will never know if they are actually less or more suited to one system since one generally does not volunteer to repeat two years of schooling in an alternate curriculum just for experiment's sake. And unless one undertakes study in both systems, or has equal experience teaching both curriculums, we are all underqualified to make an assessment as to what system is \"easier\".

Personally, I feel IB allows a student to take time to mature and choose their own pathway in life, leaving more options open for as long as possible. Breadth over depth. There is a whole lifetime to go deep. The trend in Medicine to be a postgraduate degree is just one example of this. Who knows, perhaps one day in the future, instead of double science being the “Gold” standard of STEM prerequisites for coveted courses like Med, maybe it might be compulsory to do a Humanities or an Art Form.

IB allows students to choose subject combinations that are tailored to their strengths and required for the course they may be targeting for University. Stereotyping a student as a typical “Arts” or STEM” student therefore is not really relevant. I have seen subject combinations which demonstrate strength in both Arts and Science eg HL Lit, HL Maths, HL Chem and SL Music (who could easily have done HL Music but loved Literature too). For a student that wishes to keep as many options open for as long as possible, IBDP can be attractive in this regard. If you have a student however who struggles writing essays critically then perhaps they are not a suitable IBDP student.


There is also the possibility to do HL and SL Maths at two different standards (MAA (harder) and MAI) which effectively gives a choice of 4 different options. Some Universities recommend MAI and some recommend MAA. So it really depends on a student’s strengths as to what they feel will optimize their marks, their interests and what may be required for their area of interest for their particular desired Uni degree. But to the point, both Maths and Science MUST be taken by all IB students.

Also recently happened to speak to a current Med student (Y2) at NTU who was able to verbalize the skill differences btw A level and IB students. In general, she noted that the IB students, whilst rarer, are very much sought after for group projects as they have strong presenting and organizational skills, can work independently and are strong leaders in project work.

TOK and EE and CAS are all elements which also add a lot of value but require ALOT of time in IBDP. It is the skill in researching and writing the Extended Essay (EE) which can cause much stress in IB, but simultaneously well prepares them for Tertiary Ed. The discussion that the perceived lack of “difficulty” of course syllabus also minimises the importance of the multiple weighted Internal Assessments (for 6 subjects) which when combined all together add to the difficulty of the attaining the IBDP. It’s two stressful years of constant submissions and exams, versus a 100% weighted exam. Pick your poison

As an aside, I know of a few girls who scored 26X who chose to go to HC Intl simply for IB. For girls in Singapore, there is limited choice for IB. So its not quite fair to say that these 3 local intl schools are usually populated by students who may not have been able to go to JC or JC of their choice. More accurate to say that they are filled with parents that can afford an alternative to A Levels.

Glorified maid of da house\" post_id=\"2079615\" time=\"1661332880\" user_id=\"199155:[quote=\"Glorified maid of da house\" post_id=2079615 time=1661332880 user_id=199155]
My guess is that it depends on whether there are many who have received double COs for both art-forms that they've auditioned for. And also some who has received CO from SOTA have also received CO from other schools... and may choose not to proceed with SOTA.

I remember reading on earlier threads for the past years that WL has a good chance of a conversion. Good luck to your girl![/quote]

SOTA does not offer two COs. If you audition for two art forms, they will choose the Art Form they feel the student performed best in (or perhaps they need more eg the musical instrument you play is unique). So if the child has more than one area of interest, it's best for the student to pick which Art Form they prefer to use at SOTA. Otherwise, the school will decide for you.

phtthp\" post_id=\"2082451\" time=\"1663343508\" user_id=\"35251:

since your girl not interested in the other DSA school,
no need to attend their interview anymore, since she already turned down this school, in her heart.

With all due respect, I think many parents here have encouraged their children to apply to more than 1 DSA school. We discussed it with her and narrowed the choice to just two schools offering two different tracks. Ultimately it was her choice - which she clearly chose to exercise on the day itself :). She did not share with us her intentions at the time, probably because her teacher was also keen on the other school and felt obliged to attend the audition.

m3i_m3i\" post_id=\"2082635\" time=\"1663479371\" user_id=\"18745:

Which year is your DD now?
Curious as I heard that it's hard to have 2 sciences in year 5&6
With only 1 science in IB, there will be limited choices in Science/Engineering to pursue in univ

Have sent PM. There are quite a few SOTA students doing Medicine (incl Visual Arts and Music) as well as Science careers. Sota specifically invited various local institutions to explain why interdisciplinary students are valued in Science in a recent career fair. Quite well represented. Eg Duke - Nus Medicine confirmed that single science is enough (usually Chem). HL Maths is also very valued, much like an HL Science. Sota took great lengths to explain why taking Single science in IB does not limit your chance of choosing a science based career.

Mr.Clumsy\" post_id=\"2082351\" time=\"1663303685\" user_id=\"135989:

Fair point but you have to give her credit for her tenacity.

It's one of those stories which she can write about in her memoirs when she's a retired world-renowned musician

haha true - although interestingly she is not looking at an Arts based career, or at least not directly. She loves Maths and Science.

Mr.Clumsy\" post_id=\"2082348\" time=\"1663303021\" user_id=\"135989:

That's courageous of her and I'm sure it's all paid off! Well done

hmmmm well done was not quite my reaction after her audition to the other school :roll: , but I did admire her determination and ALL or nothing approach. There was no other school in her eyes and did not want to be forced into choosing btw SOTA and the other school.

Mr.Clumsy\" post_id=\"2082342\" time=\"1663301957\" user_id=\"135989:

When your child got into SOTA, did he/she apply to other schools? I'm curious what made your child decide to go to SOTA and whether he/she is happy with that decision.

Yes my child did do an audition for another school but purposely chose to underperform on the day as she didn't want to go to that school, so decided to take matters into her own hands. It was an unnecessarily risky move tbh, but she felt she had done well enough in SOTA auditions to be given a CO for SOTA. It was always a dream school for her and she immediately felt like she belonged when she arrived. Has no regrets at all, is very happy there but she has seen some drop out for various reasons, usually because of academics or disinterest in their art form after a while.

momoftwo\" post_id=\"2082340\" time=\"1663301448\" user_id=\"41669:

Oh how is it for your child? Is he/ she in performance? Choosing IBDP or IBCB? I would like to find out more.

She is in performing track doing IBDP. Loves the school, and wants to study overseas eventually hence the choice for IB. It is very tough academically in SOTA so some drop out early if not prepared for academic rigour. IB is naturally leaning towards English strong communicators, however I know of some CL first speakers who have done really well in IB, especially since the CL requires little effort for them in Sota. There is a test for Chinese to stream into HL and normal in Y1. However even if you don't do HL Chinese in Y1-4 you can still qualify for Anticipated Chinese although it may be harder to get the required marks. Since Anticipated Chinese is an SL subject, most HL Chinese kids in Y1-4 will opt to do Anticipated Chinese as its an easy 7 in the bank.