Any Updates As To When PSLE T-Scores Will Be Scrapped?
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zulu:
To say that \"student leaders get selected based on biasness, connection and favouritism\" is not exactly a fair statement. Similarly, how can you say that the student leaders are not selected based on their own merits - if this is indeed the case, wouldn't the \"naughty boys\" be selected as well? Also, why should it be equal numbers from each gender if the girls indeed fare better in this area (own merits like GEP, just different qualities measured)? Isn't your call for fairness bias in this case - though the boys are not performing as well as the girls in this area, they should be chosen whilst the better performing girls should give way to ensure there are x number of boys in the student leader group?
Er... a bit sweeping, your statement about student leader selection.bggb:
GEP and Prefect selection are two different ball games altogether.
GEP - Students get in purely based on own's merit, results based and no connection of any kind.
Student Lesders - Students get \"selected\" based on biasness, connection and favoritism. Totally subjective. Therefore, this should not be used as an entry to top secondary schools.
Why end up more boys in cabinet? That's the whole problem. After giving girls so much opportunity, end of the day, they still become housewife.l (example me!!) Lol.
If your school is fair, teachers are professional and give equal opportunity to both gender, good for the students there but sad thing is majority of the coed schools are not like this.
Yes, may be the selection criteria is not so open and seem not so objective - that may be an area MOE needs to address. -
Many parents can’t be sure where their kids will be in 20years time, Minister or industry leaders. But right now, leadership position at PSLE when choosing sec sch becomes important (if indeed it becomes part of sec sch selection under non-academic achievement).
Right now, I am not surprised that the majority of prefects and head prefects in primary schools are girls because at this young age, girls tend to be more mature and better behaved than boys. And what kind of "leadership qualities" do you expect from a young kid? At most, selection is based on maturity (thus perceived will be more responsible). That’s why what works well for O’level students may not be appropriate for young children.
T-score is straight forward, objective and transparent, worked well for us for the past 30 years, albeit with some negative points. Parents complained and asked for something else, what if the new process is now more subjective and opaque? Blame who? -
lee_yl:
T-score is straight forward, objective and transparent, worked well for us for the past 30 years, albeit with some negative points. Parents complained and asked for something else, what if the new process is now more subjective and opaque? Blame who?
That's why I say just ballot everybody in the same band. No need to blame anybody. :evil:
But wait... composition marking can also be subjective... :siam: -
bggb:
As parents with boys in coed primary schools, we are just asking for equal opportunity and fairness to be given to boys in the leadership roles. This is even more important now if “leadership” is being considered in secondary school admission. If there are 7 to 8 prefects in a class, why only 1 or 2 are boys? Why every year, only girls are chosen be head prefect? Why the need to have the same girl playing the dual roles of prefect and monitor at the same time instead of giving the opportunity to another student to learn and pick up the skill?
At least in my child’s class, I know of some boys who are well behaved and relatively good in their studies but no opportunity! It is definitely not about education at home but a need for boys to attend some courses to teach them how to behave appropriately to create an impression and score points, just like the girls.
Talking about cabinet, majority of the ministers/ ex-minister were from all boys’ school. No?
Why is that so? Why so few from coed schools? The answer is obvious. Boys are being discriminated and hardly an opportunity for them to take up the role.
This is all true account of what is happening in my child’s school and not make-up stories. If MOE officers/ press visit some of these schools and check it out, you know what I mean! Having said this, using “leadership” to enter top secondary schools should be scrapped unless we are advocating biasness and “connection”.
Some present/ ex ministers that I know of:
Teo Chee Hean – SJI
Tharman Shanmugaratnam – ACS
Ng Eng Hen – ACS
Ong Ye Kung – Maris Stella
Tan Chuan Jin – ACS
Goh Keng Swee – ACS
Vivian Balakrishnan – ACS
Lim Swee Say – CHS
Gan Kim Yong – CHS
Tony Tan – SJI
George Yeo – SJI
Mah Bow Tan – SJI
Lee Yi Shyan – Maris Stella
:?
Errr, the above only shows their secondary schools izit? But you are talking about unfairness in selection of student leaders in primary schools now, yah? :scratchhead:
Could any of these male Cabinet ministers be from co-ed pri schools, before they were posted to an all-boys secondary school?
AFAIK, Minister in PMO Chan Chun Sing was from a co-ed primary school in MacPherson and he was class monitor and prefect for a few years. Ong Ye Kung was from Nanyang Pri. Ng Chee Meng from Huayi (should be co-ed too).
Btw, your list isn't updated...There should be a few office-holders (also considered as LEADERS) from co-ed secondary schools TK Tech, Bt Panjang Govt, DHS. But that's not what you're upset about.
IMO, such leadership hats are usually given to candidates that both disciplinary committee and FT/Co-FT unanimously concurred that they stand a high chance in DSA-ing into an IP school. It is to boost their DSA chances or give them a 'leg-up' (锦上添花）, if I'm not wrong. The shortlisted candidates probably already have a couple of non-academic talents or CCA under their belt that other pupils don't possess, despite that the latter did relatively well in their school exams. Perhaps from the teachers' point of view, even if you give to the HA who has zero CCA and extraordinary DSA-able talent, it won't help him much?
A friend of mine has a DD who was given this prefectorial hat at the start of P6 when the school felt she had contributed much by winning a couple of sports titles. She was a 240 scorer throughout her pri school years and zero musical/art talent, but with this last minute \"booster\" bestowed upon her, she had little effort sailing into the top IP girls school. :rahrah: -
jetsetter:
:imanangel:
pirate: That other Min for Education is in charge of Higher Education & SkillsFuture only. -
lee_yl:
i thought majority of parents hope for a lighter syllabus for pri kids, to have more happi learning culture , true joy of learning, more excursions, less tests/exams etc this type of holistic/ new chg is never in my radar .in fact i was caught by surprise - by the way the authority is adding more ingredients to the not so simple psle ( kids told me is : pls stop learning, ever ... :faint: )Many parents can't be sure where their kids will be in 20years time, Minister or industry leaders. But right now, leadership position at PSLE when choosing sec sch becomes important (if indeed it becomes part of sec sch selection under non-academic achievement).
Right now, I am not surprised that the majority of prefects and head prefects in primary schools are girls because at this young age, girls tend to be more mature and better behaved than boys. And what kind of \"leadership qualities\" do you expect from a young kid? At most, selection is based on maturity (thus perceived will be more responsible). That's why what works well for O'level students may not be appropriate for young children.
T-score is straight forward, objective and transparent, worked well for us for the past 30 years, albeit with some negative points. Parents complained and asked for something else, what if the new process is now more subjective and opaque? Blame who?
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I am not putting the girls down. Unfortunately, this is exactly what is happening in my son’s coed school and I am sure it is not the only coed school that discriminate against boys for such roles. If “leadership” is allowed to be used to gain entry to top secondary schools, the process resolving around the whole selection criteria should be transparent to parents, unbiased and ideally, it should be based on “voted in” by students themselves. For example: If there are 8 prefects per class, form teacher and co form-teacher will shortlist 12 potential students. 6 boys, 6 girls (not 1 or 2 boys and 10 girls!). Do not reprieve our boys of their chance. The class will then vote base on who they think should be their student leaders. Classmates know best who are the deserving ones, real well-behaved and always lending a helping hand to them. They will not vote for someone who are only good in putting an act in front of the teachers.
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pirate:
woah! I am not the only one to thinks that way !lee_yl:
T-score is straight forward, objective and transparent, worked well for us for the past 30 years, albeit with some negative points. Parents complained and asked for something else, what if the new process is now more subjective and opaque? Blame who?
That's why I say just ballot everybody in the same band. No need to blame anybody. :evil:
But wait... composition marking can also be subjective... :siam:
Had a long heated argument discussion with DH and DD, and they dismissed me as being impractical and foolish. Apparently no one in their right mind would even accept my suggestion
My stand was that no matter what measures MOE puts in , resourceful parents will game the system - you want leadership, I enroll my kids into camps and enrichment centres , you want CCA ,I will start training for the kid from the cradle, you want kids with community involvement - SPCA, old age homes, Vietnam, Cambodia, here I come with my toddler. Don't underestimate the power of a determined parent .
CCA / leadership in Secondary and primary are two different ball games. Secondary schools, external trainings/coachings plays a small part and the individual's talents and abilities play a larger role. But in primary levels - the environment, coaching, early exposure , head start etc will show a significant difference in performance, so it benefits the well off and the well informed.
The only way out is balloting within that band. Some get lucky and get into higher tier school in that band range. others who dont will go get into one tier lower in that band range. And they will help pull up the lower school standard and change mindsets about that school. Because how good a school is, in Singapore context, is predominantly going to be determined by the students who get in. In a few years the schools will start being of a similar caliber within ranges.
As a parent what worries is not that my child will not get into the best school, infact I wouldn't want my child to get into a school where he will struggle to keep pace. My worry is that he/she is rejected by a school she is capable of handling but gets rejected because the number of seats are less.
No matter what MOE does, as long as demand and supply don't meet somewhat, there will be pressure and stress on the kids and the parents. And that will skew it because the resourceful ones will gain an advantage, the less resourceful will feel stressed and try the best, the not resourceful will lament and lose out. -
Sun_2010:
Yep, I've come to the same conclusion that the end result of this is balloting.....
woah! I am not the only one to thinks that way !pirate:
That's why I say just ballot everybody in the same band. No need to blame anybody. :evil:
But wait... composition marking can also be subjective... :siam:
Had a long heated argument discussion with DH and DD, and they dismissed me as being impractical and foolish. Apparently no one in their right mind would even accept my suggestion
My stand was that no matter what measures MOE puts in , resourceful parents will game the system - you want leadership, I enroll my kids into camps and enrichment centres , you want CCA ,I will start training for the kid from the cradle, you want kids with community involvement - SPCA, old age homes, Vietnam, Cambodia, here I come with my toddler. Don't underestimate the power of a determined parent .
CCA / leadership in Secondary and primary are two different ball games. Secondary schools, external trainings/coachings plays a small part and the individual's talents and abilities play a larger role. But in primary levels - the environment, coaching, early exposure , head start etc will show a significant difference in performance, so it benefits the well off and the well informed.
The only way out is balloting within that band. Some get lucky and get into higher tier school in that band range. others who dont will go get into one tier lower in that band range. And they will help pull up the lower school standard and change mindsets about that school. Because how good a school is, in Singapore context, is predominantly going to be determined by the students who get in. In a few years the schools will start being of a similar caliber within ranges.
As a parent what worries is not that my child will not get into the best school, infact I wouldn't want my child to get into a school where he will struggle to keep pace. My worry is that he/she is rejected by a school she is capable of handling but gets rejected because the number of seats are less.
No matter what MOE does, as long as demand and supply don't meet somewhat, there will be pressure and stress on the kids and the parents. And that will skew it because the resourceful ones will gain an advantage, the less resourceful will feel stressed and try the best, the not resourceful will lament and lose out.
...then affiliation priority how? -
They also need to equalise the scores of those who’ve been exempted from Mother Tongue.
3 subjects vs 4 subjects.
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