2021 PSLE Discussions and Strategies (Children born in 2009)
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brfish\" post_id=\"2048465\" time=\"1637855626\" user_id=\"102306:
I came up with a simpler example.
Yours is a tricky scenario. It would have been easier for me if School A and B are actual school names so that I don’t have to keep recalling which one is SAP and which is not.iRabbit\" post_id=\"2048461\" time=\"1637854356\" user_id=\"51587:
[quote=brfish post_id=2048447 time=1637852916 user_id=102306]How does the tie breaker work exactly?
I understand how the sequence and everything. But that's in single school situation. How does it work when there are multiple students and multiple schools?
Let's say there are two students, Joe Al 8D and Jill AL 8M. There are two schools, A and B, each with 1 seat left. A is SAP school and B is not. Joe and Jill are the only people competing for the last seat.
Joe's choices are:
1. RI (COP 6 so he didn't get in)
2. School B
3. School A
Jill's choices are:
1. School A
2. School B
From school A perspective, Joe is ahead with D in HCL. From school B perspective, both students are the same so need to ballot.
So will Joe places into A first, then Jill gets into B without need to ballot. Or do they ballot for school B first, and the one not getting it go to School A?
Also note in this situation the COP for school A would be different...
My interpretation is that both will need to ballot for school B if 8M is not good enough for school A. Mabbe others can confirm my understanding as this scenario is slightly mind boggling.
Suppose two students, one local and one foreigner, competing for last seat in Dunman High and Victoria.
The foreigner has AL 8D and his choices are
1. Victoria IP
2. Dunman High
The local student has AL 8M and his choices are
1. Dunman High
2. Victoria
Who goes to which school?
From Dunman High perspective, 8D is better than 8M so 8D should get it. From Victoria perspective, local student has priority so the local student should get it.
Or, MOE can let both students go to their first choice and everyone is happy[/quote]Feels that this is simpler.
Foreigner will get into Dunman High, and local student will get into Victoria IP.
Thoughts:
* From Victoria perspective: 2 AL8 students (foreigner with 1st choice v local with 2nd choice) -- local get in first.
* From Dunman perspective: AL8D beats AL8M. Foreigner will get in based on merit.
* No balloting required
Imagine the case in which the local student gets into Dunman High with AL8(M) . This means system will not be consistent, since based on merit, AL8(D) beats AL8(M). The AL8(D) may appeal, when COP of Dunman High is released to be AL8(M). -
CCK2008\" post_id=\"2048234\" time=\"1637822227\" user_id=\"26004:
Actually the offer for ESIS is under section C of the same form as the selection of school, it will only appear on the form for those students who are in the top 3%. The form is structured in this way:
I see, so the eligibility for the scholarship is only offered on psle results day. I understand about the DSA part. i was just thinking if it could be due to the fact that it's being offered to DSA students posted to independent schools First cos they r confirmed going into indep schools. As for the cut off, do they merely look at AL5/6 or the raw scores?jkorompis\" post_id=\"2048212\" time=\"1637818200\" user_id=\"193874:
[quote=Luxedream post_id=2047985 time=1637771077 user_id=98340]
If the child is eligible for ESIS, the child will be informed on PSLE results day, NOT upon posting to independent school. The part about DSA is just saying that regardless whether the child enters the independent school via S1 posting or DSA, the child will be eligible for ESIS as long as the results meet the ESIS cut off.
Section A: selection choices for 6 sec school
Section B: Option for third language (only appear for cohort top 10%)
Section
Option for ESIS (only appear for cohort top 3%)[/quote]Yes I do know ESIS is on the same form received as my DD has been offered and she is DSA student as well. I was just not sure if others posted to independent schools may receive later after S1 posting. Apparently many parents here have explained its only given out on same form on PSLE day, regardless of whether the kid already knew about where he/she is being posted to (indep or not)
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CCK2008\" post_id=\"2048414\" time=\"1637849746\" user_id=\"26004:
St Nicks has 5 IP classes currently.
Can try. Look at history, cop for RGS and NYGH always took turn to be no 1. So sometimes RGS had higher cop, sometimes it was NYGH. That is why they are top 2 schools, cop are generally higher than their male counterparts. One advantage is that both had 12 classes, cohort size is large, can be up to 400 per cohort, but usually about 380.siokhoon\" post_id=\"2048368\" time=\"1637843059\" user_id=\"122732:
My girl has AL6M, am thinking of this order:
1. RGS (COP = 6)
2. NYG (COP = 7M)
3. St Nick IP (COP = 7M)
4. NJC (COP = 7)
5. SCGS (COP =
6. Dunman / Cedar Girl (COP =
She is only interested in RGS so though chance of balloting is high, I think should at least try. And I am prepared that NYG will also have no chance.
Will she be safe for St Nick / NJC?
However for st nick ip and njc, cohort size is small, maybe 4 classes ip in st nick and 6 or 7 classes in Njc. They are also popular schools, putting them at 3rd or 4th position there is a risk they had filled up in 1st and 2nd choice, even you have AL6.
Just note that popular schools will get filled up in 1st or 2nd choice. You also need to look at cohort size. Also note that both rgs and nygh can take in 30% DSA. More than other schools as they are popular with DSA students from GEP, bilingual etc. -
SpongyBobs\" post_id=\"2048471\" time=\"1637856709\" user_id=\"196018:
Feels that this is simpler.
I came up with a simpler example.brfish\" post_id=\"2048465\" time=\"1637855626\" user_id=\"102306:
[quote=iRabbit post_id=2048461 time=1637854356 user_id=51587]
Yours is a tricky scenario. It would have been easier for me if School A and B are actual school names so that I don’t have to keep recalling which one is SAP and which is not.
My interpretation is that both will need to ballot for school B if 8M is not good enough for school A. Mabbe others can confirm my understanding as this scenario is slightly mind boggling.
Suppose two students, one local and one foreigner, competing for last seat in Dunman High and Victoria.
The foreigner has AL 8D and his choices are
1. Victoria IP
2. Dunman High
The local student has AL 8M and his choices are
1. Dunman High
2. Victoria
Who goes to which school?
From Dunman High perspective, 8D is better than 8M so 8D should get it. From Victoria perspective, local student has priority so the local student should get it.
Or, MOE can let both students go to their first choice and everyone is happy
Foreigner will get into Dunman High, and local student will get into Victoria IP.
Thoughts:
* From Victoria perspective: 2 AL8 students (foreigner with 1st choice v local with 2nd choice) -- local get in first.
* From Dunman perspective: AL8D beats AL8M. Foreigner will get in based on merit.
* No balloting required
Imagine the case in which the local student gets into Dunman High with AL8(M) . This means system will not be consistent, since based on merit, AL8(D) beats AL8(M). The AL8(D) may appeal, when COP of Dunman High is released to be AL8(M).[/quote]AL 8D wouldn't appeal in this situation. He's posted to his first choice. He can't appeal for being posted to 1st choice and not 2nd. -
brfish\" post_id=\"2048465\" time=\"1637855626\" user_id=\"102306:
I came up with a simpler example.
Yours is a tricky scenario. It would have been easier for me if School A and B are actual school names so that I don’t have to keep recalling which one is SAP and which is not.iRabbit\" post_id=\"2048461\" time=\"1637854356\" user_id=\"51587:
[quote=brfish post_id=2048447 time=1637852916 user_id=102306]How does the tie breaker work exactly?
I understand how the sequence and everything. But that's in single school situation. How does it work when there are multiple students and multiple schools?
Let's say there are two students, Joe Al 8D and Jill AL 8M. There are two schools, A and B, each with 1 seat left. A is SAP school and B is not. Joe and Jill are the only people competing for the last seat.
Joe's choices are:
1. RI (COP 6 so he didn't get in)
2. School B
3. School A
Jill's choices are:
1. School A
2. School B
From school A perspective, Joe is ahead with D in HCL. From school B perspective, both students are the same so need to ballot.
So will Joe places into A first, then Jill gets into B without need to ballot. Or do they ballot for school B first, and the one not getting it go to School A?
Also note in this situation the COP for school A would be different...
My interpretation is that both will need to ballot for school B if 8M is not good enough for school A. Mabbe others can confirm my understanding as this scenario is slightly mind boggling.
Suppose two students, one local and one foreigner, competing for last seat in Dunman High and Victoria.
The foreigner has AL 8D and his choices are
1. Victoria IP
2. Dunman High
The local student has AL 8M and his choices are
1. Dunman High
2. Victoria
Who goes to which school?
From Dunman High perspective, 8D is better than 8M so 8D should get it. From Victoria perspective, local student has priority so the local student should get it.
Or, MOE can let both students go to their first choice and everyone is happy[/quote]Someone above just made a good pt that the last student determines the COP. In this case, VS COP is 8 (it doesn’t matter what’s DHS COP). The local student will get VS (citizenship higher priority than order of choices) while foreign student will go to DHS.
Edit: see below for S1 posting priority
https://www.moe.gov.sg/microsites/psle-fsbb/posting-to-secondary-school/changes-to-s1-posting.html -
How is Eunoia JC (JC partner of St Nick)? Did they produce good A level result?
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Exactly. For that reason, my dd rather choose a good O level express sch than NJC/TJC because the CCAs offered at these jc are so limited.
MerlionInGermany\" post_id=\"2048454\" time=\"1637853187\" user_id=\"2964:
I brought it up first because everytime I see a comparison between njc/tjc, and another school (any school), my first alarm is cca. And this cca thing stems from cohort size. A nephew was in one of these, he was in the sec school section of a jc, and some ccas are taken up by dsa, couple that with fewer ccas, and then factor in your own flair/talent or lack of talent, and then your interest, you end up with almost nothing to choose. They have no uniform group. If you are not sporty and not musically inclined, nothing is left. Ok I exaggerate but this “struggle” is real.SG_KP1\" post_id=\"2048429\" time=\"1637851199\" user_id=\"188234:
I hear the arguments on cohort size but have wondered how much it really matters? I can see how it makes more CCAs available but many of them are still competitive as heck to get a spot in…
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brfish\" post_id=\"2048475\" time=\"1637857020\" user_id=\"102306:
AL 8D wouldn't appeal in this situation. He's posted to his first choice. He can't appeal for being posted to 1st choice and not 2nd.[/quote]Well, he may appeal (successfully), I suppose, but logically he will not since he is getting his first choice, like you said.
Feels that this is simpler.SpongyBobs\" post_id=\"2048471\" time=\"1637856709\" user_id=\"196018:
[quote=brfish post_id=2048465 time=1637855626 user_id=102306]
I came up with a simpler example.
Suppose two students, one local and one foreigner, competing for last seat in Dunman High and Victoria.
The foreigner has AL 8D and his choices are
1. Victoria IP
2. Dunman High
The local student has AL 8M and his choices are
1. Dunman High
2. Victoria
Who goes to which school?
From Dunman High perspective, 8D is better than 8M so 8D should get it. From Victoria perspective, local student has priority so the local student should get it.
Or, MOE can let both students go to their first choice and everyone is happy
Foreigner will get into Dunman High, and local student will get into Victoria IP.
Thoughts:
* From Victoria perspective: 2 AL8 students (foreigner with 1st choice v local with 2nd choice) -- local get in first.
* From Dunman perspective: AL8D beats AL8M. Foreigner will get in based on merit.
* No balloting required
Imagine the case in which the local student gets into Dunman High with AL8(M) . This means system will not be consistent, since based on merit, AL8(D) beats AL8(M). The AL8(D) may appeal, when COP of Dunman High is released to be AL8(M).
We can also say that the local student may appeal by losing Victoria IP to AL8 foreigner, but he wouldn't know this fact. And logically, he will not do anything as well, since he is getting his first choice as well.
If system works as what MOE explains, while assessing foreigner 1st choice, it has to assess all AL8 applicants for potential balloting. When it catches the local student choice, it will assign Victoria IP to the local student.
But I do get your points.
---------- I stand corrected.. Foreigner may not be allowed to appeal, because he was getting into his first choice. -
Veyron\" post_id=\"2048257\" time=\"1637824736\" user_id=\"30663:
Unfortunately, that is the reality of the new AL system. Under this system, 90 is the new 100, there are no extra points for anything above 90. e.g. a student with a raw score of 99 99 99 89 will still be ranked lower than 90 90 90 90 in S1 posting.
with due respect, i think it doesn't make sense if ESIS purposely impose AL5 as the cut off for top 3%. The \" TOP 3%\" in itself means total raw scores logically. otherwise it is not fair to the AL6/AL7s whose scores are better than AL5s, whose efforts need to be rewarded.jkorompis\" post_id=\"2048222\" time=\"1637821161\" user_id=\"193874:
[quote=Veyron post_id=2048060 time=1637803070 user_id=30663]
So far, no parents have reported any AL6 students getting ESIS yet. And I also doubt MOE will do anything like this to complicate the selection criteria because AL grade is now the new rating system.
Furthermore if AL6 + ESIS is better than AL6, then many parents and students go back to the old ways of chasing after 100 marks just to qualify for ESIS.
no parents here have reported AL6s getting ESIS could be the fact that they are not in this forum or prefer to be low profile.
The goal of the AL system is not to chase after every last marks, hence its unlikely MOE will use raw score marks to determine COP for ESIS., while using AL score for S1 posting. Between the 2, which do you think is more important? S1 posting or ESIS?[/quote]yes, goal of AL system is not to chase after every last mark, but ESIS is not something the general population of pupils/parents will chase after. your rationale is based on the fact that people will start chasing for last mark if ESIS is based on raw scores. it could just be an internal protocol, not made known to the cohort taking psle. -
Thinker\" post_id=\"2048478\" time=\"1637857671\" user_id=\"4205:
[/quote]Agree that CCA importance can’t be under-estimated. This is the main reason my son is loving his JC life so much.
I brought it up first because everytime I see a comparison between njc/tjc, and another school (any school), my first alarm is cca. And this cca thing stems from cohort size. A nephew was in one of these, he was in the sec school section of a jc, and some ccas are taken up by dsa, couple that with fewer ccas, and then factor in your own flair/talent or lack of talent, and then your interest, you end up with almost nothing to choose. They have no uniform group. If you are not sporty and not musically inclined, nothing is left. Ok I exaggerate but this “struggle” is real.
Exactly. For that reason, my dd rather choose a good O level express sch than NJC/TJC because the CCAs offered at these jc are so limited.MerlionInGermany\" post_id=\"2048454\" time=\"1637853187\" user_id=\"2964:
[quote=SG_KP1 post_id=2048429 time=1637851199 user_id=188234]I hear the arguments on cohort size but have wondered how much it really matters? I can see how it makes more CCAs available but many of them are still competitive as heck to get a spot in…
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