Property Views

[sushi88]

Estéema\" post_id=\"2060855\" time=\"1646708848\" user_id=\"66413:

@sushi88 I think if one goes to the neigbourhood HDB office, they will likely just go by the process as most wld in a bureaucratic system - owner have the privilege to apply for unit to be rented out or terminate at will so long as all other regulations complied with (e.g. quota, etc). The TA is a private doc btwn 2 parties, without HDB in the pic except to abide by local laws & regulations.

I wld hv brought this errant LL/Agent up to the main HDB office to catch the owner with proof of the TA, as looking at the case of expiry in May 2022 & eviction in Jan 2022, owner alr flouted HDB rules for entering into a 3-year TA with non-M’sian or Sporean.

Unfortunately, many of us are very peace keeping folks, and when suddenly faced with the presence of police, we wld comply rather than stay to argue.

Not related to tenancy but I admire a frd who got her garden plot vandalized & many of her neigbor’s got their labor pilfered, when NParks bureaucratically reply they will not put up fences nor put up CCTVs, she went to the press! So, I’m just wondering if social media will surface tenants’ plight w/o jeopardizing their identities or jobs. Thinking this might wake both CEA & HDB to catch errant Agents & plug the loophole for owners?

I know they can apply and terminate but it is the regulations now we need to look into and highlight to HDB. Renting out a terminated unit violates the law but she escaped that craftily with quick action from police and termination letter.

Yes, don't shy away from media if there is real injustice done and let the scammer get away scott-free.

[lee_yl]

starlight1968sg\" post_id=\"2060851\" time=\"1646708510\" user_id=\"14025:

Maybe see the MP if a recourse can be sought.

Tenants don’t hold pink IC, no voting rights.
No point to see MP.

[lee_yl]

sushi88\" post_id=\"2060849\" time=\"1646707915\" user_id=\"100857:

Ah sorry, I thought the case was ongoing so there was a pressure of time to act quickly...So it's like a SCAM case study now. You have to tell the police, it is NOT a TA dispute, it is a SCAM. There was no dispute in the TA, the TA was crystal clear in the Ts and Cs of rental, except the foreigner tenants were ignorant of her cunning ways to abuse the HDB system and the police to commit the SCAM.

The tenants were ignorant and harassed by her to move out so the second point became invalid if you cannot provide proof of forced exit now. Can the police evict the tenant with a TA in place??? :yikes: In any case, if you can prove that they had a forced exit, then the TA duration would serve as the proof of rental period and she was terminating the rental approval to frame the SCAM. Then she was breaching the HDB rule of renting an apt that was not approved by her self-termination action. HDB cannot be condoning a LL to do this with a TA in place, if it's a loophole, they have to set tighter rules for this otherwise any LL can happily go to the portal to terminate a rental approval and evict their tenants! :yikes:

CEA has to know it's a SCAM and act on it fast as it is moving on to others.

I just read 5 days later the unit was up for rental, please collect this proof and send to HDB, how was it possible for a unit to be issued a termination letter and 5 days later approved again for rental and advertised after evicting tenants? Is this a playground?? :? Does it mean the portal is failing to do what a human can do, detecting fraudulent activities? If she advertised without getting an approval from HDB, she has violated the HDB rules again, this is the 3rd errant behaviour.

I told police to write down “intention to cheat” hoping the IO would investigate. But the police offer insisted this should be under TA dispute, and police wouldn’t be able to do much. Police officer told me bluntly what next-door neighbor said about this incident not the first time that the LL has done such a thing is just “hearsay”. I mean for goodness’ sake, isn’t it police’s responsibility to investigate right? Lol.

According to HDB, once the flat has been rented out, LL can go online to register for approval to rent, HDB would check whether LL is eligible, if yes, they would simply approve again. They don’t care if you have previously used the termination letter to evict tenants. I personally think that such loopholes should be closed like once terminate, LL must wait for at least 3-6 months before they can reapply to rent out, in order to stop LLs from using this technique to forcibly evict tenants.

Anyway, I have said my part, let’s see how HDB reply in 2 weeks’ time.

[lee_yl]

lee_yl\" post_id=\"2060415\" time=\"1646268802\" user_id=\"17023:

Loophole in HDB Rental policy?

Recently I came across an interesting case. This unscrupulous landlord confiscated tenant’s 3 month deposits (for a 3 year lease). The landlord went to HDB to terminate the approval to rent out the full unit, citing that she wanted to move back to the flat for her own stay, and then forcefully evicted the tenants on pretext of reclaiming the unit with the help of Police resources and a locksmith in tow. The landlord then withheld the deposit on various grounds.

One week later, the very same unit was advertised on Property Guru asking for 40% more in rental.

The tenant did write in to HDB to highlight landlord’s intention to cheat but HDB’s reply was factual but not helpful, basically HDB doesn’t care about tenancy dispute, tenant needs to find lawyer. Unfortunately, the tenant is a foreign healthcare worker and has no money to sue landlord in court.

But to me, this is not just a tenancy dispute but a loophole in HDB’s rules, if a landlord can use it over and over again to prematurely terminate a tenancy agreement and cheat tenant’s of the deposit using different reasons. Plus, the landlord can then turn around to rent out the entire unit with HDB seemingly unaware that the approval to terminate was only a week ago and now the unit is back on the rental market.

What was shocking, was that the tenancy agreement was signed for 3 years to a foreigner not of Malaysian origin which already breached the rental guidelines. Informed HDB, also no reply. If a regulator doesn’t enforce, it’s just a paper tiger.

Update:

HDB has replied my earlier email which asked about the potential loophole of using termination of approval to rent out whole unit to evict tenants and the landlord’s contravention of HDB’s rules and regulations by renting to foreigners not of Malaysian origin for more than 2 years. To my utter surprise, HDB’s reply was totally off, it just stated that
1).HDB was not responsible for any premature termination of a tenancy agreement. 2). Landlord had applied and obtained approval first before renting out the whole unit, so LL has not broken any terms and conditions. The replies were totally off my questions. In the first place, renting out a HDB unit for 3yrs to foreigners not of Malaysian origin is already a contravention.

The killer statement was in the last sentence when HDB stated that it would not be responding to any of my subsequent emails on the matter.

I scratched my head and wondered whether my English was poor that’s why HDB misunderstood my queries. I re-read my emails and I had been very clear about my concerns. Which then makes me feel sad that HDB had deliberately chosen to ignore real issues and decided to be defensive. What’s worse, even though a clear contravention of HDB’s own rules and regulations was reported, HDB had chosen not to exercise its power as a regulator to investigate the matter.

For the next step, I am likely to write to Minister(National Development) to see what else could be done. Open for any suggestions that could help. I already running out of ideas.

[starlight1968sg]

Which Min doies HDB report to? Write to this Min via email or his/her FB? Write to ST Forum?

[sushi88]

lee_yl\" post_id=\"2064030\" time=\"1649569975\" user_id=\"17023:

Update:

HDB has replied my earlier email which asked about the potential loophole of using termination of approval to rent out whole unit to evict tenants and the landlord’s contravention of HDB’s rules and regulations by renting to foreigners not of Malaysian origin for more than 2 years. To my utter surprise, HDB’s reply was totally off, it just stated that
1).HDB was not responsible for any premature termination of a tenancy agreement. 2). Landlord had applied and obtained approval first before renting out the whole unit, so LL has not broken any terms and conditions. The replies were totally off my questions. In the first place, renting out a HDB unit for 3yrs to foreigners not of Malaysian origin is already a contravention.

The killer statement was in the last sentence when HDB stated that it would not be responding to any of my subsequent emails on the matter.

I scratched my head and wondered whether my English was poor that’s why HDB misunderstood my queries. I re-read my emails and I had been very clear about my concerns. Which then makes me feel sad that HDB had deliberately chosen to ignore real issues and decided to be defensive. What’s worse, even though a clear contravention of HDB’s own rules and regulations was reported, HDB had chosen not to exercise its power as a regulator to investigate the matter.

For the next step, I am likely to write to Minister(National Development) to see what else could be done. Open for any suggestions that could help. I already running out of ideas.

Thank you for pursuing this matter. I believe for the good of the society and HDB, the Ministry should take over this investigation.

[sembgal]

lee_yl\" post_id=\"2060415\" time=\"1646268802\" user_id=\"17023:

Loophole in HDB Rental policy?

Recently I came across an interesting case. This unscrupulous landlord confiscated tenant’s 3 month deposits (for a 3 year lease). The landlord went to HDB to terminate the approval to rent out the full unit, citing that she wanted to move back to the flat for her own stay, and then forcefully evicted the tenants on pretext of reclaiming the unit with the help of Police resources and a locksmith in tow. The landlord then withheld the deposit on various grounds.

One week later, the very same unit was advertised on Property Guru asking for 40% more in rental.

The tenant did write in to HDB to highlight landlord’s intention to cheat but HDB’s reply was factual but not helpful, basically HDB doesn’t care about tenancy dispute, tenant needs to find lawyer. Unfortunately, the tenant is a foreign healthcare worker and has no money to sue landlord in court.

But to me, this is not just a tenancy dispute but a loophole in HDB’s rules, if a landlord can use it over and over again to prematurely terminate a tenancy agreement and cheat tenant’s of the deposit using different reasons. Plus, the landlord can then turn around to rent out the entire unit with HDB seemingly unaware that the approval to terminate was only a week ago and now the unit is back on the rental market.

What was shocking, was that the tenancy agreement was signed for 3 years to a foreigner not of Malaysian origin which already breached the rental guidelines. Informed HDB, also no reply. If a regulator doesn’t enforce, it’s just a paper tiger.

Hi lee_ly

Thanks for sharing this interesting loophole.
If one suspects that a landlord neighbour rented out the whole flat to a foreigner and not a Malaysian origin, where can one report this breach in rental guidelines? As there is no regulator, it is difficult to report to police or HDB.

What about those landlord that rent out whole house to Malaysian for long term and the Malaysian rent out one of the rooms to other foreigner without the landlord’s knowledge. How would HDB know and how would neighbour know who to report such unscrupulous tenant if neighbour has never seen the landlord before ?

[lee_yl]

sembgal\" post_id=\"2066566\" time=\"1651878905\" user_id=\"5559:

Hi lee_ly

Thanks for sharing this interesting loophole.
If one suspects that a landlord neighbour rented out the whole flat to a foreigner and not a Malaysian origin, where can one report this breach in rental guidelines? As there is no regulator, it is difficult to report to police or HDB.

What about those landlord that rent out whole house to Malaysian for long term and the Malaysian rent out one of the rooms to other foreigner without the landlord’s knowledge. How would HDB know and how would neighbour know who to report such unscrupulous tenant if neighbour has never seen the landlord before ?

Can rent whole HDB flat to foreigners of non-Malaysian origin (e.g. PRCs on EP) but only up to a maximum of 2 years.

Yes, in theory, HDB is the regulator. For the case I shared, I reported to HDB that a LL signed a 3-year contract to tenants of non-Malaysian origin but HDB didn’t say will investigate.

If the Malaysian rents the whole house and rent out a room to other foreigners without LL’s knowledge, it is already an offence. If you have any doubt and cannot get hold of the landlord, easiest is to report directly to HDB.

[phtthp]

lee_yl\" post_id=\"2066592\" time=\"1651889411\" user_id=\"17023:

If the Malaysian rents the whole house and rent out a room to other foreigners without LL’s knowledge, it is already an offence. If you have any doubt and cannot get hold of the landlord, easiest is to report directly to HDB.

How do u find out that the tenants who rented the whole house, in turn rent out one room to other foreigner ? This is insight, personal info, unless you really know your tenant neighbours very well

[lee_yl]

phtthp\" post_id=\"2066616\" time=\"1651896061\" user_id=\"35251:

How do u find out that the tenants who rented the whole house, in turn rent out one room to other foreigner ? This is insight, personal info, unless you really know your tenant neighbours very well

True. As a neighbor, I probably won’t know whether the main tenant has sublet a bedroom to a foreigner. One possible tell tale sign is, the unit keeps having new faces coming to and fro.

If you suspect/worry that your main tenant may be subletting a bedroom to others, then what you can do as a LL is to conduct surprise checks. But I am not sure how many LLs conduct regular surprise checks on the tenants. Usually nobody complains / makes noise, nobody cares.