Can through-train school work in kiasu Singapore?

[phtthp]

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2103390\" time=\"1680157310\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2103390 time=1680157310 user_id=53606]
We need to know who are the target market for TT schools.

Perhaps, those at P5 EOY who scored way clear of the borderlines? Eg somewhere between IP COP and Express COP, but excluding 1-2 points off the border? Say AL10-AL18? These are highly likely to be streamed to O level track. Would they be keen to skip PSLE and go to a TT secondary school?

Perhaps those in the mid-range of NA COPs as well?[/quote]

Target audience (students / potential customers) for TT schools
==========================

There are 2 groups of PSLE students, out here.


Those who are targeting RI, Hwa Chong, ACSI and any of the other IP schools like

(Catholic High, Victoria, National JC, Temasek JC, Dunman High, River Valley High) won't want TT. They would very much prefer to sit for PSLE, to enter into these designated IP schools.

You suggested
AL ( 10 to 18 ), suitable for TT ?

Well,
AL 10 was the Cut off point for Chung Cheng High (Main), last year PSLE batch or born in 2009 pioneering batch ?
CCHM is one of the Top O-level Secondary schools in SG, affliated to Nanyang Junior College (NYJC), whose Cut off point for JAE admission after O-level is ... nett L1R5 (5 points). And NYJC A-level performance results are ranked highly. Nanyang JC A-level performance is in the same league as (Eunoia + Victoria) Junior College, based on last year 2022 A-level batch (born 2004) .

Thus,
Students with AL 10 would also prefer to take PSLE, to enter CCHM Secondary school, instead of TT.

In the end,
end up who will want, or look forward to studying inside TT schools ?

Perhaps,
those students
whose AL score is close to 20,
Eg.
AL ( 17, 18, 19, 20)
or
anything more than 20.

[sushi88]

bbbay\" post_id=\"2103381\" time=\"1680153472\" user_id=\"175278:

Ok I see the attractiveness of this pseudo pri-sec TT in giving parents a choice of how high a stake the PSLE should be. And I imagine my child/me going thru the decision process: say at P5 my I feel my child is “not ready” for high stake PSLE exam yet. And my child gotten a AL 20 PSLE result, and all subjects at Sec school will be taken at G2 except Chinese at G3.

And we are still the current system: my child will need to go thru S1 posting exercise, and eventually posted to a sec. Sch. and do all subjects at G2 level
except Chinese at G3.

We are in the pseudo pri-sec TT system: at P5 we decided to go for TT. And my child move straight to that affiliated Sec. Sch. and do all subjects at G2 level except Chinese at G3.

So the difference btw current system and pseudo pri-sec TT, after PSLE, is TT offers certainty of which Sec. Sch. will go to and current system does not. Everything else is the same.

Since current system or pseudo pri-sec TT will not change the PSLE result, The next question for me will be, why knowing before hand for sure which Sec. Sch. the child will go to can result in the PSLE exam become not as high stake as before, if that is the intention of having a pseudo pri-sec TT?

Pls correct me if I am missing anything

A high stake exam is not just chasing a fast track for everyone, only those who are competitive, it is also about keeping up with the Jones for kids who may not be as competitive. They are dragged by the system to \"perform\" because for a large group of kids, they are all \"warned\" by the adults that they would end up at the bottom of the stack and miss opportunities for higher learning. If there is an option to go for a natural progression of pri-sec as a TT and learn under the SBB scheme in their own timing without having to be stacked in a ranking style based on the schools they are admitted to, would that not help with their mental development? Affiliation is like a LATERAL move, and a lateral move means certainty, not something unknown. Of course, if there are exceptions who need special schools, they have to be handled separately, like now, no difference. Ask parents and kids in affiliation scheme now why they like it.

Instead of running a pilot for a group of kids with uncertainty until year 10 to see the outcome in a newly structured TT, it would be better to let kids take a PSLE that is a checkpoint milestone for choosing the bands of subjects in S1. It's not high stake because people have a choice to continue from pri to secondary within the same school eco-system from their primary. Of course, this group of schools have to establish a level of closeness that kids can see their education journey from pri to sec is pretty seamless. The posting at S1 is a notification to start secondary school at designated affiliated schools(depending how MOE can design this), PSLE certificate is not even necessary.

All said and done, we still need to have hard statistics on the demand for pri-sec TT.

[Zeal mummy]

But… how are you going to determine, that the child will be AL 17-22 just when he enters primary 1? I think it’ll be easier for parents to put less emphasis on grades but more on character development.

[zac's mum]

https://i.imgur.com/j0ETJ0k.jpg\">


Picking up on the proposal for end-P5 opt-in for TT (skip PSLE):

If the demand is going to be from the AL20-AL30, bearing in mind that MOE now deems AL30 as eligible for secondary school (conditional upon AL7 or better for both EL and MA), then may I suggest…

Once they have opted out of PSLE (if they wish), these kids finish up the P6 syllabus in Semester 1 of P6 (let the others go cram for Prelims and PSLE), while they attend some sort of Sec 1 prep program to preview or get some grounding in the Sec 1 subjects. Would this give them a head-start in the secondary school journey? I do not know how the teachers will be found to do this. But just proposing a way to help these kids at the bottom 30-50% (?) of the cohort. Since the idea is to prep well for O levels. Look forward not back.

[sushi88]

Veyron\" post_id=\"2103394\" time=\"1680158179\" user_id=\"30663:

At the moment, any student or parent can also choose to take PSLE lighting and still progress to secondary school, the only caveat is that those with low PSLE scores may not get to go to their choice of secondary schools. If that doesn't bother parents or students, then its already \"TT\"

In the case of TT school, the focus seems to shift from kiasu-ism to kiasi-ism , ie. for parents to \"insure\" their kid's education pathway by securing a place in secondary school while at the same time having the option to switch schools if their PSLE result is good.

From an operational point of view, it will be difficult to operate such a secondary school because there is no certainty in their intake numbers and the TT sec schools make end up becoming a school of lazy students because those students who work hard leave schools, while those who choose to take things lightly will progress to S1. Just like in ACS, those who do well in in PSLE choose ACS(I) over ACS. (jusing this as an example of school selection pattern)

To be candid, I won't say it is about kiasi-ism...then the group of people enjoying affiliation for years are the kiasi bunch? :? I do not think of them that way.

Let's just say it would be fairer for more of the 12 yos not to suffer that kind of undue stress instead of some have it easier than others This change should put the mental development of the kids at a more level playing field.

[bbbay]

Best to work on own mindset, then will not need to 看别人的脸色 to live our life.


Those in the pseudo Pri/Sec TT, during P5 that opt for continue thru affiliated Sec sch instead of S1 posting, may still being labelled, because that TT program are created for “buffering” reason.

[zac's mum]

bbbay\" post_id=\"2103418\" time=\"1680166002\" user_id=\"175278:

Best to work on own mindset, then will not need to 看别人的脸色 to live our life.

Those in the pseudo Pri/Sec TT, during P5 that opt for continue thru affiliated Sec sch instead of S1 posting, may still being labelled, because that TT program are created for “buffering” reason.

For the AL20-30, they are going to be labelled no matter whether opt for TT or not. So what. I think they have built thick enough skin by then.

How about my suggestion of providing some resources to headstart them into Sec 1? Nothing much they can do within that short P6 year to improve their PSLE score anyway. Work on bettering their Sec 1 outcomes is more productive.

Isnt uplifting the bottom segment the trend nowadays? Otherwise we will simply continue to see widening disparities and Gini coefficient growing worse.

[bbbay]

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2103424\" time=\"1680167142\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2103424 time=1680167142 user_id=53606]
For the AL20-30, they are going to be labelled no matter whether opt for TT or not. So what. I think they have built thick enough skin by then.
[/quote]

don’t start a new TT system if the labelling will still remain.

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2103424\" time=\"1680167142\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2103424 time=1680167142 user_id=53606]
How about my suggestion of providing some resources to headstart them into Sec 1? Nothing much they can do within that short P6 year to improve their PSLE score anyway. Work on bettering their Sec 1 outcomes is more productive.

[/quote]

If curriculum is not suited to them at present moment, continue working hard may not produce better results. This is what the sorting is for with PSLE exam. Sort them into a curriculum more suited to them at the present moment.

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2103424\" time=\"1680167142\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2103424 time=1680167142 user_id=53606]
Isnt uplifting the bottom segment the trend nowadays? Otherwise we will simply continue to see widening disparities and Gini coefficient growing worse.[/quote]

Identifying how each student can learn better (sorting) could be that systematic way to help uplift them accordingly to their current capacity. The works start as early as 13yo - after PSLE. Maybe the disparities may be worse if not for the current system of keeping almost all students in schools for as long as possible.

[zac's mum]

bbbay\" post_id=\"2103438\" time=\"1680172266\" user_id=\"175278:

don’t start a new TT system if the labelling will still remain.



If curriculum is not suited to them at present moment, continue working hard may not produce better results. This is what the sorting is for with PSLE exam. Sort them into a curriculum more suited to them at the present moment.




Identifying how each student can learn better (sorting) could be that systematic way to help uplift them accordingly to their current capacity. The works start as early as 13yo - after PSLE. Maybe the disparities may be worse if not for the current system.

I thought the point of the TT system was to alleviate the stressful juncture of PSLE. The labelling by society ties in with the allocation of stream (Exp/NA/NT), which will soon be solved by FSBB mixed form classes.

While I understand MOE has to allocate the stream for Sec 1, I do not agree that those 4 subjects at P6 level are an accurate reflection of the student’s potential / capability for the Sec 1 all 7 subjects. Even PSLE Math is markedly different from S1 Algebra method. I know students who have scored AL20 and worse. They are not necessarily all having special needs, neither are they slow in the brain or lower IQ as some may think in their preconceptions. When we peg them as needing a different curriculum, what are we really saying? Do note that MOE deems them fine for Express/NA/NT already (if u look at end-P5 score). U mean they are not suited to start on Sec 1 curriculum earlier? Why?

[Veyron]

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2103442\" time=\"1680173535\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2103442 time=1680173535 user_id=53606]
I thought the point of the TT system was to alleviate the stressful juncture of PSLE. The labelling by society ties in with the allocation of stream (Exp/NA/NT), which will soon be solved by FSBB mixed form classes.

While I understand MOE has to allocate the stream for Sec 1, I do not agree that those 4 subjects at P6 level are an accurate reflection of the student’s potential / capability for the Sec 1 all 7 subjects. Even PSLE Math is markedly different from S1 Algebra method. I know students who have scored AL20 and worse. They are not necessarily all having special needs, neither are they slow in the brain or lower IQ as some may think in their preconceptions. When we peg them as needing a different curriculum, what are we really saying? Do note that MOE deems them fine for Express/NA/NT already (if u look at end-P5 score). U mean they are not suited to start on Sec 1 curriculum earlier? Why?[/quote]

Actually psle is a good indicator of O-Level and A-Level outcome..ACSI O level is a good example.

Sec 1 is honeymoon period lots of new discovery new subject etc..no one care too much about academic. Everyone will survive Sec1 lah..