Is Algebra allowed for PSLE Math?

[lassie girl]

The ministry’s published statement has said as much - if u can reach the final destination (ie correct answer), they won’t question how u got there (eg whether u crawled or u walked the journey) and u will get your full marks as having accomplished the “task”. What if u force them for the “how”, because u used a different method learned elsewhere but didn’t reach the final destination? Can u request for them to award marks for the distance u covered by walking or maybe running? :?


If the answer is yes, then the floodgates will be opened. We will soon see eager parents with time and resources teaching or sending their children to tuition centers offering algebra classes (not saying which method is better or easier). So what then should the schools do? Do they now teach algebra as well? If they don’t, the ones with lesser resources will be disadvantaged… I always wonder if they fast forward and teach algebra in primary school, will the future cohorts end up with having to do A math in S1 or S2? Why crawl when u can run to your destination? :evil: are we ready for this “fast-track”? :heresmyfish:

Is the intention then to force them to say no? :siam:

To ensure a fair test, the “skill” (or method) that is being taught is the one they are testing - to find out if a group of students are responding well to the education provided. That’s why marks are given for the “skill” they have learned, no matter how far they have gone using the methods taught (in their workings). But I thought they are also flexible enough to award full marks to those who can master algebra well (ie must be correct final answer).

Good luck for your query.

[phtthp]

What action then, can u possibly take ?



Proposal / suggestion
===================

to all parents with kids sitting for Psle this year 2023, next year 2024 or in subsequent, future years :-
============================


1) dig out all those past year PSLE Maths qns that you think can be solved, for the past decade (10 years), using Algebra method.

You provide the step by step solution(s) clearly,

using either one unknown x or 2 unknown (x and y), depending on how the qn asked.

Don’t just dig out and practise merely one qn only.
But,
dig out as many past year qns as possible, that can be solved, using this Algebra method.

Then ,
collate ALL these qns solved using the Algebra method at one shot and email to 2 different group of people, for help.


1) email to your own primary school.

Email and show to your kid’s primary school Maths HOD, at the same time also cc your kid’s class Maths Teacher

+

2) email also to
that specific SEAB Officer in charge, or the Head of Invigilation overall in charge of marking several thousands of P6 students’ PSLE Maths answer scripts.

Ask them this question :-

If my P6 son or daughter were to use Algebra method (x or y), to solve this qn during this coming year end 2023 PSLE Maths,
can u please
help to mark his answer, and let us (parents) know how many marks will he get ?

Be concise, be specific in your question. And wait for these 2 group of people, to reply you.

Once u get their answers, u may come to this forum, share your findings or post your findings into "Straits Times", so that other p6 parents and children, can also benefit from your sharing / finding.

Also,
do remember to
paste the reply obtained, from SEAB + your primary school’s Maths HOD (if u wish to).

We are more concerned, with the reply from SEAB, because after all, they are the markers, in our kids’ PSLE answer scripts. As PSLE AL score, is the ultimate decision marker, to decide which Secondary school your P6 child gets posted into, out of his list of 6 choices Secondary schools submitted, during the S1 posting exercise.

[phtthp]

fionachia0034\" post_id=\"2104085\" time=\"1680511102\" user_id=\"201257:

I wish this were a theoretical question bandied about as a philosophical exercise.

This is actually affecting my son's and some of his classmates' learning.

I will refrain from sharing too many details as we are considering bringing this to the attention of MOE.

Fiona Chia,

You may take the proactive step, as been suggested. And see how SEAB mark those past years' PSLE qns, for those students who had solved using the Algebra method.

[sushi88]

phtthp\" post_id=\"2104163\" time=\"1680582507\" user_id=\"35251:

Proposal / suggestion
===================

to all parents with kids sitting for Psle this year 2023, next year 2024 or in subsequent, future years :-
============================


1) dig out all those past year PSLE Maths qns that you think can be solved, using Algebra method.

You provide the step by step solution(s) clearly,

using either one unknown x or 2 unknown (x and y), depending on how the qn asked.

Don't just dig out and practise merely one qn only.
But,
dig out as many past year qns as possible, that can be solved, using this Algebra method.

Then ,
collate ALL these qns solved using the Algebra method at one shot and email to 2 different group of people, for help.


1) email to your own primary school.

Email and show to your kid's primary school Maths HOD, at the same time also cc your kid's class Maths Teacher

+

2) email also to
that specific SEAB Officer in charge, or the Head of Invigilation overall in marking thousands of P6 students' PSLE scripts.

Ask them this qn :-

If my P6 son or daughter were to use Algebra method (x or y), to solve this qn coming this year 2023 PSLE Maths, can u please help to mark his answer, and let us (parents) know how many marks will he get ?

Be concise, be specific in your question. And wait for these 2 group of people, to reply you.

Once u get the answers, u may come to this forum, share your findings or post your findings, into Straits Times, so that other p6 parents and children, can also benefit from your sharing / finding.

Don't ask parents to go on a wild goose chase when they do not understand the issue at hand in detail. Their kids may not have encountered the same issue and the samples they produce could return with the same answer from both parties and that may leave a ?? in their heads why you ask them to do something like that and waste everyone's time to simulate something their kids do not even know how to and confuse them? And the fact that you can suggest them to do something like that means you are not understanding the issue parent fionachia0034 has described. :slapshead:

Let parent fionachia0034 make her query because she has a specific situation encountered with real experiences and examples of solutions together with some of the parents in the same school. It is sufficient for them to make a case of query and I believe in MOE/SEAB to address this clearly with a rationale as PSLE is a major national exam.

Also, I re-read Ms Ho Peng's reply from MOE:
\"Other than the model drawing approach, pupils are also taught different problem solving methods. They are encouraged to try different approaches and have the flexibility to choose the method that works best for them in solving the problems. They are also encouraged to present their solutions clearly so that these can be understood.\"

[phtthp]

sushi88\" post_id=\"2104169\" time=\"1680584803\" user_id=\"100857:

Don't ask parents to go on a wild goose chase when they do not understand the issue at hand in detail. Their kids may not have encountered the same issue and the samples they produce could return with the same answer from both parties and that may leave a ?? in their heads why you ask them to do something like that and waste everyone's time to simulate something their kids do not even know how to and confuse them? And the fact that you can suggest them to do something like that means you are not understanding the issue parent fionachia0034 has described. :slapshead:

Let parent fionachia0034 make her query because she has a specific situation encountered with real experiences and examples of solutions together with some of the parents in the same school. It is sufficient for them to make a case of query and I believe in MOE/SEAB to address this clearly with a rationale as PSLE is a major national exam.

Also, I re-read Ms Ho Peng's reply from MOE:
\"Other than the model drawing approach, pupils are also taught different problem solving methods. They are encouraged to try different approaches and have the flexibility to choose the method that works best for them in solving the problems. They are also encouraged to present their solutions clearly so that these can be understood.\"

sushi88,

You know
who will take the proactive step, of my proposal / suggestion written above?

I better clarify my stand, outfront here.


Definitely not you, if u do not have anymore kid sitting for PSLE. And Is also clearly not for any Tom, Dick or Harry who are in P6, too.

Why ?

Because

As mentioned much earlier before, those P6 students who DONT even grasp the concept of Algebra at all, inspite of being taught or exposed to this Algebra concept. Because their brain remain closed up, cannot see. Only those advanced students who are able to grasp the concept of x or y in their mind, then they can do this.

And also, at this point, I better clarify my definition of \"what do i mean by Algebra concept ? \"
Just in case u all don't know what am I talking about.

I am definitely NOT refering to the \"Units and Parts\" method, which is also a form of Algebra already ! Moreover, this \"Parts & Units\" method is DEFINITELY come under Primary School Maths. This \"Parts and Units\" : ALL P6 students, are expected to know, and expected to apply, because
it is WITHIN your P5 And P6 Maths syllabus.


No, No, No.
I am NOT referring to this \"Units and Parts\" Primary school Algebra method.


I am refering to the LOWER Secondary 1 Algebra method, where students can solve equations, using just one single x or combined both \"x and y\" method, depending on the question that came out in PSLE. Because this method is very powerful, especially. Under very tight time constraint exam condition. However, there is a drawback here. Because not every P6 student, is able to grasp this Algebra concept. Many still cannot. Only minority, can.

Because there are some P6 students, especially the GEP students or Top Mainstream students, who are very advanced in their Maths, and they often excel in Maths. They always do very well, in their school Maths tests, assessments. Like close to full marks, that type of calibre of students. As such, they always DSA into Top IP schools, using domain \"Maths\" DSA path.

Why ?

Because in their GEP Mathematics curriculum, being advanced, they have been taught some of the Lower Secondary 1 concepts, inside their GEP Maths curriculum.

So please hor, all parents out here, who have read my proposal. You all know your own P6 child very well, because you are the one, that give birth to your own kid.

Because every child is different ! Some kids are just average, while others are faster, in learning. You ought to know your own child very well. Where is he or she exactly, in learning P6 Maths ?

If your son or daughter is already or still struggling with \"Parts and Units\" Algebra concept or still struggling with the core, basic, fundamental Maths concepts, please exercise discernment. Do NOT add un-necessary burden or stress, to your poor kid.
Kindly ignore my proposal.
You can treat it as nonsense written, because it doesn't apply to your child at all.


My proposal, is for those :-


1) whose P6 child Is able to follow or able to understand the \"x\" or \"the x and y\" form of Algebra equations, in their mind. Because they are advanced, in their Maths learning.


2) for those parents, who are also able to understand Lower Secondary 1 Algebra equation

AND

Their P6 children are also able to comprehend. And these parents can guide their children.

So, I hope I have made myself clear now.

For those who up to now, still DONT understand what I am trying to say. Never mind. Treat it that I am writing or babbling nonsense. Pls ignore me, totally.

Thank you, for your understanding.

[sushi88]

phtthp\" post_id=\"2104182\" time=\"1680591752\" user_id=\"35251:

sushi88,

You know
who will take the proactive step, of my proposal / suggestion written above?

I better clarify my stand, outfront here.


Definitely not you, if u do not have anymore kid sitting for PSLE. And Is also clearly not for any Tom, Dick or Harry who are in P6, too.

Why ?

Because

As mentioned much earlier before, those P6 students who DONT even grasp the concept of Algebra at all, inspite of being taught or exposed to this Algebra concept. Because their brain remain closed up, cannot see. Only those advanced students who are able to grasp the concept of x or y in their mind, then they can do this.

And also, at this point, I better clarify my definition of \"what do i mean by Algebra concept ? \"
Just in case u all don't know what am I talking about.

I am definitely NOT refering to the \"Units and Parts\" method, which is also a form of Algebra already ! Moreover, this \"Parts & Units\" method is DEFINITELY come under Primary School Maths. This \"Parts and Units\" : ALL P6 students, are expected to know, and expected to apply, because
it is WITHIN your P5 And P6 Maths syllabus.


No, No, No.
I am NOT referring to this \"Units and Parts\" Primary school Algebra method.


I am refering to the LOWER Secondary 1 Algebra method, where students can solve equations, using just one single x or combined both \"x and y\" method, depending on the question that came out in PSLE. Because this method is very powerful, especially. Under very tight time constraint exam condition. However, there is a drawback here. Because not every P6 student, is able to grasp this Algebra concept. Many still cannot. Only minority, can.

Because there are some P6 students, especially the GEP students or Top Mainstream students, who are very advanced in their Maths, and they often excel in Maths. They always do very well, in their school Maths tests, assessments. Like close to full marks, that type of calibre of students. As such, they always DSA into Top IP schools, using domain \"Maths\" DSA path.

Why ?

Because in their GEP Mathematics curriculum, being advanced, they have been taught some of the Lower Secondary 1 concepts, inside their GEP Maths curriculum.

So please hor, all parents out here, who have read my proposal. You all know your own P6 child very well, because you are the one, that give birth to your own kid.

Because every child is different ! Some kids are just average, while others are faster, in learning. You ought to know your own child very well. Where is he or she exactly, in learning P6 Maths ?

If your son or daughter is already or still struggling with \"Parts and Units\" Algebra concept or still struggling with the core, basic, fundamental Maths concepts, please exercise discernment. Do NOT add un-necessary burden or stress, to your poor kid.
Kindly ignore my proposal.
You can treat it as nonsense written, because it doesn't apply to your child at all.


My proposal, is for those :-


1) whose P6 child Is able to follow or able to understand the \"x\" or \"the x and y\" form of Algebra equations, in their mind. Because they are advanced, in their Maths learning.


2) for those parents, who are also able to understand Lower Secondary 1 Algebra equation

AND

Their P6 children are also able to comprehend. And these parents can guide their children.

So, I hope I have made myself clear now.

For those who up to now, still DONT understand what I am trying to say. Never mind. Treat it that I am writing or babbling nonsense. Pls ignore me, totally.

Thank you, for your understanding.

phtthp, I know you are doing this out of good intent but you are barking up the wrong tree.
Kids very well-versed in the higher order algebra are not going to simulate that scenario deliberately.

I actually can understand why the teacher/HOD is so strict in this and start to see their POV as I reply in this thread.
And if MOE/SEAB is of the same stance, I can understand why.

[Liew Nga Wing]

Just state your opinion, no need to be too personal. I think the discussion there is on whether could use algebra for PSLE Maths.

[ChiefKiasu]

Sigh... I was about to go to sleep... didn't know that this topic can generate so much hot discussions. Please cool down and stick to the topic instead of each other, or I would be forced to remove posts despite its useful contents.


PS: Action taken to remove unhelpful posts.

[bbbay]

On why modelling:


https://www.schoolbag.edu.sg/story/does-maths-have-to-be-so-difficult

[kaisuism]

fionachia0034\" post_id=\"2103726\" time=\"1680362237\" user_id=\"201257:

My son's Pri.5 teacher told the class that Algebra is strictly NOT allowed in her class, or else else no marks will be awarded for the workings.

I quote the teacher :

\"If I see let 'x' be oranges and 'y' be bananas, no method mark. If I see equations '2x + 3y = 50' also no method mark. If you use Algebra and you get correct, only answer marks will be given.\"

Is this true? I have been teaching my son Algebra since young and his Pri.3 and Pri.4 teacher did not make any such comment previously.

A few parents complained to the school, but the HOD backed the teacher. The HOD said that MOE officially accepts Algebra for use in the PSLE Math exam, but during the marking of the PSLE Math paper, no method marks will be credited if the final answer is wrong. In other words, the student has only 2 possible outcomes if they use Algebra, either get full marks or zero marks for the question. That is why the HOD set a policy to blanket ban Algebra.

Should we make an official complaint to MOE?

Some school teachers will enforce this rule because they are trying to get the students to learn model method but fear not, Algebra is allowed in PSLE. You just have to respect the teacher's wish and just make sure your child uses model method when it comes to this teacher's school or homework. In the meantime you can get your child to use algebra to check the answers. You make a big hooha will not help your child at all. We are all from older generation of course we prefer algebra. My child prefers algebra too. FYI I learn model method from my child and I find it useful and I did incorporate into helping my child solving math problem. So it is good to learn as many methods because same as in real life, sometimes we need more than one way to solve problem.