The State of the Nation
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Busymom:
d American Indians look more oriental than Caucasians.
The blacks and the hispanics are as American as the white American. If you want to go that far back in history, then the only natives are the American Indians.verykiasu2010:
the non-whites are mostly recent immigrants, are't they ? from latin america, and if you trace farther, they (the americans) are ALL immigrants from England & elsewhere. Ya, there are some red indians, and also some KKK.
We hv to ask vk2010 how far back in history he wants to go. LOL.
I only learn many years after school dat we were con into
believing dat Christopher Columbus 'discovered' d Americas. -
qizai:
I think many ppl can see d big picture or some parts of d big picture......
Sometimes, all we want is a little empathy from family and society in general and very often, the government can set the tone for that.
In trying to stay ahead in d race, we must also take care of those left behind, yes?
If u abandon/neglect those injured soldiers in battles, u expect loyalty
n more ppl to join u for future battles?
A nation must also hv a soul. -
Busymom:
I think you are missing my point.
the non-whites are mostly recent immigrants, are't they ? from latin america, and if you trace farther, they (the americans) are ALL immigrants from England & elsewhere. Ya, there are some red indians, and also some KKK.verykiasu2010:
[quote=\"Busymom\"]
You mean Americans are only the whites?
Isn't is the same as Singapore ? Everyone is an immigrant, less than 200 years history...there is no one truly a son of the soil here
so are our service staff, from all over the place....we just have to get used to it
the point is, all these service staff are mostly recent immigrants
The blacks and the hispanics are as American as the white American. If you want to go that far back in history, then the only natives are the American Indians.
Most of the service staff here should be on permit, no? Do you think they are immigrants?
If you are an employer, and assuming there is a minimum wage that you need to pay, say $2000 per month for a shop sale assistant, would you rather employ someone locally who is able to speak both English and Mandarin, or someone whom you need to bring in from another country (i.e. need to apply permit, find accommodation, etc.) and can only speak either English or Mandarin, but not both?[/quote]$2000 per month for a shop sale assistant plus CPF plus medical etc etc = all the retailers in Singapore can close shop and everyone can troop over to JB to shop. don't waste time setting up stores in Singapore
wah, you think retailers can afford $2000 per month shop assistant salary? what a joke -
it is easy to sing the patriotic song of job protection
if you are running a business - it is your capital protection FIRST before job protection, get real
please ponder why so many local enterprise / SME has either died or have shifted out of Singapore ? the alarm bell for this has been ringing in the EDB since the 90s, fyi
what can the singapore companies do ? they are supporting the MNCs here, and once they decide to move out, you either move with them or you close shop. if you want to stay in SG and hope to supply to this moved-out MNC, you have to compete with the local cost of the new location of the MNCs. And Singapore economy has been largely built up and invested by the MNCs. BTW, Temasek and GIC does NOT invest in Singapore.
you think it is just so simply a matter of job competition in Singapore ?
assuming you can mark up your cost of goods to cater to your $2000 per month sale assistant salary, I can tell you many people will be jetting to HK and Bangkok to shop - that was the norm in the 80s, 90s…and it is not unheard of even these days - more so with $100 air ticket by the budget airlines. at the end you still close shop and lose your capital
as for the manufacturers, it is a global competition, you are competing with the Foxconn and Asustek and the likes of them - plenty of them in PRC
and even PRC is losing out to Vietnam, Ukraine, estonia etc etc -
Way2GO:
ordinary soldiers are in no position to address any of the above, all are too busy preparing for PSLE? :roll:
I think many ppl can see d big picture or some parts of d big picture.qizai:
.....
Sometimes, all we want is a little empathy from family and society in general and very often, the government can set the tone for that.
In trying to stay ahead in d race, we must also take care of those left behind, yes?
If u abandon/neglect those injured soldiers in battles, u expect loyalty
n more ppl to join u for future battles?
A nation must also hv a soul. -
dunnoleh:
ordinary soldiers are in no position to address any of the above, all are too busy preparing for PSLE? :roll:[/quote]I agree most people are micro in their views of life. Government will have to be macro but they have to take one more step to help the people map the macro to the micro because it is hard for \"micro\" people to see \"macro\". In other words, largely, there is no point preaching macro and appealing to people to change to see, however, it is an art of the government to know how to present the macro with micro benefits to the people to retrofit the macro picture. Are you lost now? :rotflmao:
I think many ppl can see d big picture or some parts of d big picture.Way2GO:
[quote=\"qizai\"] .....
Sometimes, all we want is a little empathy from family and society in general and very often, the government can set the tone for that.
In trying to stay ahead in d race, we must also take care of those left behind, yes?
If u abandon/neglect those injured soldiers in battles, u expect loyalty
n more ppl to join u for future battles?
A nation must also hv a soul. -
ksi:
I agree most people are micro in their views of life. Government will have to be macro but they have to take one more step to help the people map the macro to the micro because it is hard for \"micro\" people to see \"macro\". In other words, largely, there is no point preaching macro and appealing to people to change to see, however, it is an art of the government to know how to present the macro with micro benefits to the people to retrofit the macro picture. Are you lost now? :rotflmao:[/quote]agreed
ordinary soldiers are in no position to address any of the above, all are too busy preparing for PSLE? :roll:dunnoleh:
[quote=\"Way2GO\"]
I think many ppl can see d big picture or some parts of d big picture.
In trying to stay ahead in d race, we must also take care of those left behind, yes?
If u abandon/neglect those injured soldiers in battles, u expect loyalty
n more ppl to join u for future battles?
A nation must also hv a soul.
the education part from the government needs lots of improvement wrt this economy / foreign worker issue
those unionised workers would likely be better informed due to the annual collective agreement bargaining, and in the process of it, lots of educating has taken place
those non-unionised companies will face lots of difficulties in explaining the cost issue. The workers in such companies, they would only think \"why replace me with cheap labour\"....\"and the company is still around wat.....\" -
ksi:
I agree most people are micro in their views of life. Government will have to be macro but they have to take one more step to help the people map the macro to the micro because it is hard for \"micro\" people to see \"macro\". In other words, largely, there is no point preaching macro and appealing to people to change to see, however, it is an art of the government to know how to present the macro with micro benefits to the people to retrofit the macro picture. Are you lost now? :rotflmao:[/quote]too chim for \"micro\" me,
ordinary soldiers are in no position to address any of the above, all are too busy preparing for PSLE? :roll:dunnoleh:
[quote=\"Way2GO\"]
I think many ppl can see d big picture or some parts of d big picture.
In trying to stay ahead in d race, we must also take care of those left behind, yes?
If u abandon/neglect those injured soldiers in battles, u expect loyalty
n more ppl to join u for future battles?
A nation must also hv a soul.
better just study for PSLE la...
-
verykiasu2010:
$2000 per month for a shop sale assistant plus CPF plus medical etc etc = all the retailers in Singapore can close shop and everyone can troop over to JB to shop. don't waste time setting up stores in Singapore
I think you are missing my point.Busymom:
[quote=\"verykiasu2010\"]
the non-whites are mostly recent immigrants, are't they ? from latin america, and if you trace farther, they (the americans) are ALL immigrants from England & elsewhere. Ya, there are some red indians, and also some KKK.
Isn't is the same as Singapore ? Everyone is an immigrant, less than 200 years history...there is no one truly a son of the soil here
so are our service staff, from all over the place....we just have to get used to it
the point is, all these service staff are mostly recent immigrants
The blacks and the hispanics are as American as the white American. If you want to go that far back in history, then the only natives are the American Indians.
Most of the service staff here should be on permit, no? Do you think they are immigrants?
If you are an employer, and assuming there is a minimum wage that you need to pay, say $2000 per month for a shop sale assistant, would you rather employ someone locally who is able to speak both English and Mandarin, or someone whom you need to bring in from another country (i.e. need to apply permit, find accommodation, etc.) and can only speak either English or Mandarin, but not both?
wah, you think retailers can afford $2000 per month shop assistant salary? what a joke[/quote]I said \"assuming\" in my post, not implying that should be the pay.
Now, the real numbers:
- DH met some full-time taxi drivers in the course of his community service work. The take-home pay is from $1200-2000 per month.
- a staff at Bee Cheng Hiang outlet earns $900 a month.
- the security guards at my place work 12-hour shift. Including night shift work, their pay is about $1000, otherwise their basic pay is only about $700 a month. These are locals by the way.
- If our domestic helpers are willing to come here to work at a starting salary of $350- $380 (heard some are still $330), how much does it cost to find foreigners from the same country to come here to be shop assistants? -
Busymom:
Thanks for your sharing
I said \"assuming\" in my post, not implying that should be the pay.
Now, the real numbers:
- DH met some full-time taxi drivers in the course of his community service work. The take-home pay is from $1200-2000 per month.
- a staff at Bee Cheng Hiang outlet earns $900 a month.
- the security guards at my place work 12-hour shift. Including night shift work, their pay is about $1000, otherwise their basic pay is only about $700 a month. These are locals by the way.
- If our domestic helpers are willing to come here to work at a starting salary of $350- $380 (heard some are still $330), how much does it cost to find foreigners from the same country to come here to be shop assistants?
I really salute the people quoted by you who are willing to accept the low low pay. I am sure it is tough on them and their family
These are the people who really feel the competition from the foreign workers, as I think this is where the economics is. Any higher price / wages will mean the service providers got to charge higher price for their products. For example, are we will willing to pay S$70/kg for that bakkwa (present price S$48/kg) ? When the selling price goes up, those who are still willing to buy will dwindle and it means closing shop faster. As it is now, many prefer to shop for grocery in JB.
For taxi driver, you know that every 10 cent increase will cause a flood of complaint letter to the press and the MP's meet the people session will be full of complaint too....are we willing to pay S$5 for the flag down fare and S$0.40 per 385 meter (now is $0.20) ? Actually, only citizens and PR are allowed as taxi drivers - it is a vocation, not an employee-employer relationship. Taxi drivers are hirers who rent the taxi to make a living. How much he earns is up to his own hard work and \"luck\". I am told picky taxi drivers have less \"luck\" because he refuses short distance trips from airport and refuses to go to Jurong industrial estates
\"how much does it cost to find foreigners from the same country to come here to be shop assistants\" - probably similar cost, not only shop assistants, but also waiter, waitresses, pump attendants, chamber maids, cleaners at hawker centres, kitchen helpers in restaurants, etc ...their all in cost to the employers are probably in the region of $800 to $1000 (levy, accommodation, medical, insurance, wages etc) before overtime pay and night shift allowances. When they get OT pay and shift allowances, it makes it attractive for them to work - and this is another area where the local shun : overtime and night shift
and since the basic pay is lower, it is easier for the employer to pay the OT rates (1.5x, 2x, and 3x) and the shift allowances. They are willing to travel in lorry than in an aircond coach....that is also cost difference here
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