How to develop self motivation in children?

[Chenonceau]

rosemummy:

Chenonceau:

[quote=\"rosemummy\"]I'm not sure if it's universally true that paying people enough money is sufficient.

Hi hi... is it the same video you watched 'cos my video says that paying people is insufficient to motivate them? Can I clarify that that is what you meant?

I'm referring to the last part where he talk about paying people enough to get money out of the equation.[/quote]Rosemummy... eh sorry... I'm still a bit confused. I don't quite see your point. You agree or disagree with the notion that you gotta pay people enough money to stop them worrying about basic needs?

I agree with the fella that you gotta pay people enough to get money worries outta the way. BUT that is not enough to motivate. It's like saying to kids \"I feed you enough so I am motivating you to like school\". It is necessary to pay enough, but cannot expect HUGE motivational force through pay alone.

Is that what you mean?

[Chenonceau]

rosemummy:

Chenonceau:

[quote=\"rosemummy\"]It's not that there's no punishment for undesirable behavior. In fact, it's a well-oiled bureaucrecy with very well laid out precedures for such cases. There's even a department with about 10 people to just look at the process and update the rule book. Unfortunately, the practice is otherwise.

I suppose that is as good dun have... could you possibly have created your own RIVP then? One of my clients was in roughly the same situation. She found her own way to muscle the fellow (about 50-ish and stubborn and underperforming Head of Something) into an early retirement. Everyone else shaped up after that. The big headache left. She promoted others and transferred others in... culture changed... organisational energy went up and KPI improved quite a bit.

I guess there are some crossovers to parenting because whichever the branch of psychology, you're still reading and drawing components from the same body of basic research. Tee hee! RIVP is RIVP no matter if you're caning or sacking someone.

I guess a little tough then. They pay about the same bonus for everyone, regardless of performance. And I wasn't senior enough then. But I did extend the probation of a new staff who joined them in what they were doing. They did sit up a little after that, but not much. They knew they were long serving, confirmed staff and it's hard for me to justify doing anything to them if they were not found to be unacceptable in the previous 20 years. And honestly, I personally didn't want to have them sacked - they're rank and file staff, middle age men with a family to support. I was hoping to be able to help them to move up instead of ending up in the state they eventually find themselves in.[/quote]Oh yucks then... but well... you were new too and all... we can't win 'em all I guess not.

[rosemummy]

Chenonceau:

I guess there are some crossovers to parenting because whichever the branch of psychology, you're still reading and drawing components from the same body of basic research. Tee hee! RIVP is RIVP no matter if you're caning or sacking someone.


It's interesting that you raise the issue of crossover. I'm sorry I didn't think of that. Too focused on helping Tisha with her P6 child... I suppose the idea we can transfer over to children is that punishment does have its place in our panoply of strategies to manage children/staff. We may not like it. It seems evil. But sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. If my client hadn't managed the person out... so many others would have suffered, and some who would have suffered would have been innocent and needed help. After all, it WAS civil service.

If we don't RIVP our kids, then they mayn't grow up right, and then we do them a disservice.

There is no need to over use such awful measures but they have to be available and used properly when absolutely necessary.

Would we interesting to discuss further how our professional experience can be used to motivate our children. At the end of the day, we're preparing them for the real world after all the exams.

[Chenonceau]

wonderm:

I still remember one day before his prelim, he asked \"am I really going to be ok if I just carry on doing this way?\" I reassured him. The entire process of getting ready for PSLE was almost stress-free and enjoyable and the bonding between us certainly improved.

This is such a heartwarming tale... :love: :love: If you think of anything else, do share... because I really think Tisha needs help. It's no fun being a P6 parent!! :stupid: :stupid: :stupid:

[rosemummy]

Chenonceau:

rosemummy:

[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]
Hi hi... is it the same video you watched 'cos my video says that paying people is insufficient to motivate them? Can I clarify that that is what you meant?

I'm referring to the last part where he talk about paying people enough to get money out of the equation.

Rosemummy... eh sorry... I'm still a bit confused. I don't quite see your point. You agree or disagree with the notion that you gotta pay people enough money to stop them worrying about basic needs?

I agree with the fella that you gotta pay people enough to get money worries outta the way. BUT that is not enough to motivate. It's like saying to kids \"I feed you enough so I am motivating you to like school\". It is necessary to pay enough, but cannot expect HUGE motivational force through pay alone.

Is that what you mean?[/quote]I believe what he says is that up to a certain level, money doesn't or is insufficient to motivate. I agree that this is the case for some, or possibly quite a lot of people. But money, and lots of it, had been a huge, in fact, the sole, motivating factor in investment banking. That's greed and there's also a lot of people who are greedy. To some people, money is never enough. What is considered a luxury to some may be considered basic to others. The amount needed to get money worries out of the way varies greatly between different people. A recent study shows that this amount to comfortably retire could be in the region of US$8 mil.

[Chenonceau]

rosemummy:

Chenonceau:

[quote=\"rosemummy\"]
I'm referring to the last part where he talk about paying people enough to get money out of the equation.

Rosemummy... eh sorry... I'm still a bit confused. I don't quite see your point. You agree or disagree with the notion that you gotta pay people enough money to stop them worrying about basic needs?

I agree with the fella that you gotta pay people enough to get money worries outta the way. BUT that is not enough to motivate. It's like saying to kids \"I feed you enough so I am motivating you to like school\". It is necessary to pay enough, but cannot expect HUGE motivational force through pay alone.

Is that what you mean?

I believe what he says is that up to a certain level, money doesn't or is insufficient to motivate. I agree that this is the case for some, or possibly quite a lot of people. But money, and lots of it, had been a huge, in fact, the sole, motivating factor in investment banking. That's greed and there's also a lot of people who are greedy. To some people, money is never enough. What is considered a luxury to some may be considered basic to others. The amount needed to get money worries out of the way varies greatly between different people. A recent study shows that this amount to comfortably retire could be in the region of US$8 mil.[/quote]Oic... makes sense... when I consult, it is always on the assumption that organisational resources are limited. Usually, that is a safe assumption. If you compete on money/pay/promotion, you lock yourself into a situation where you gotta keep paying MORE and MORE, because people are addicted to the MONEY (that's greed) not to their jobs. If you have limited resources, then getting people addicted to money will only create a strong back lash of inertia when people realize that the pay ain't going up anymore... or going up as fast as it used to. So, I tell my clients to set up situations where you have a basket of OTHER motivators that make a job worth living.

Extrinsic motivation undermines intrinsic motivation. This is a robust finding. Parents who use rewards/punishments all the time cannot build self-motivation. When the external motivator is gone, so also is motivation. My own research examines intrinsic motivation - ways to increase that. Actually, I question the notion that extrinsic motivation is true motivation because the drive is provided by external factors such as money.

[rosemummy]

Chenonceau:

Oic... makes sense... when I consult, it is always on the assumption that organisational resources are limited. Usually, that is a safe assumption. If you compete on money/pay/promotion, you lock yourself into a situation where you gotta keep paying MORE and MORE, because people are addicted to the MONEY (that's greed) not to their jobs. If you have limited resources, then getting people addicted to money will only create a strong back lash of inertia when people realize that the pay ain't going up anymore... or going up as fast as it used to. So, I tell my clients to set up situations where you have a basket of OTHER motivators that make a job worth living.

Extrinsic motivation undermines intrinsic motivation. This is a robust finding. Parents who use rewards/punishments all the time cannot build self-motivation. When the external motivator is gone, so also is motivation. My own research examines intrinsic motivation - ways to increase that. Actually, I question the notion that extrinsic motivation is true motivation because the drive is provided by external factors such as money.

Very interesting perspective. As employers, our objective is mostly to get the job done with maximum profit. But parenting is a little different. We want our kids to be intrinsically motivated to do well even when we are no longer around to provide them with the motivation. And most of the time, we're not benefitting directly from what they do, save the pride and joy as parents.

I do agree with you that extrinsic motivation is not really motivation - it's more of a transaction. But in the world of business, everything is, in some sense, transactional. You just need to pay to keep or attract good people. The situation of having to pay more and more is inevitable in a competitive environment - you got to at least match what your competitors are offering. Yes, organisational resources are limited. That's why it's difficult to compete if you have less resources compared to your competitors. With other motivators, you may be able to get away with paying a little less, but not much less. The only other extrinsic motivator that work the same way as salary is share option or giving the employees a stake in the company - but that's also money, with some contingency built into it. But having other motivators would definitely make happier employees.

[rosemummy]

Chenonceau,


On the issue of RIVP which we talked about before, it just occurred to me that the FED was actually using RIVP when they allow Lehman to fail. But the punishment caused a lot of pain to others who are not supposed to be the object of the punishment.

[metz]

Hi Chenonceau ,


I just want to update you on my son's progress. Your recommended motivational strategies have proven most effective for my son. While he has not turned into a habitual writer overnight, he no longer finds writing a chore. In fact, he now gladly works on his weekly writing. No more pushing or naggings required, just a gentle reminder would set him off to his task.

However, he is still not open to unfavourable comments yet, so I am holding my tongue at the moment. Hopefully, I can resolve this in time to come.

Once again,
:thankyou:

[MummyThreeStreams]

This is a wonderful discussion! Thank you everyone for contributing your views and experience.


In relation to what Chenonceau said about extrinsic/intrinsic motivation ...

Chenonceau:

Extrinsic motivation undermines intrinsic motivation. This is a robust finding. Parents who use rewards/punishments all the time cannot build self-motivation. When the external motivator is gone, so also is motivation. My own research examines intrinsic motivation - ways to increase that. Actually, I question the notion that extrinsic motivation is true motivation because the drive is provided by external factors such as money.

So does this mean the sticker-chart (and other similar reward systems) and time-out systems will undermine self-motivation?