How to develop self motivation in children?

[Chenonceau]

rosemummy:

Chenonceau:

[quote=\"rosemummy\"]
I'm referring to the last part where he talk about paying people enough to get money out of the equation.

Rosemummy... eh sorry... I'm still a bit confused. I don't quite see your point. You agree or disagree with the notion that you gotta pay people enough money to stop them worrying about basic needs?

I agree with the fella that you gotta pay people enough to get money worries outta the way. BUT that is not enough to motivate. It's like saying to kids \"I feed you enough so I am motivating you to like school\". It is necessary to pay enough, but cannot expect HUGE motivational force through pay alone.

Is that what you mean?

I believe what he says is that up to a certain level, money doesn't or is insufficient to motivate. I agree that this is the case for some, or possibly quite a lot of people. But money, and lots of it, had been a huge, in fact, the sole, motivating factor in investment banking. That's greed and there's also a lot of people who are greedy. To some people, money is never enough. What is considered a luxury to some may be considered basic to others. The amount needed to get money worries out of the way varies greatly between different people. A recent study shows that this amount to comfortably retire could be in the region of US$8 mil.[/quote]Oic... makes sense... when I consult, it is always on the assumption that organisational resources are limited. Usually, that is a safe assumption. If you compete on money/pay/promotion, you lock yourself into a situation where you gotta keep paying MORE and MORE, because people are addicted to the MONEY (that's greed) not to their jobs. If you have limited resources, then getting people addicted to money will only create a strong back lash of inertia when people realize that the pay ain't going up anymore... or going up as fast as it used to. So, I tell my clients to set up situations where you have a basket of OTHER motivators that make a job worth living.

Extrinsic motivation undermines intrinsic motivation. This is a robust finding. Parents who use rewards/punishments all the time cannot build self-motivation. When the external motivator is gone, so also is motivation. My own research examines intrinsic motivation - ways to increase that. Actually, I question the notion that extrinsic motivation is true motivation because the drive is provided by external factors such as money.

[rosemummy]

Chenonceau:

Oic... makes sense... when I consult, it is always on the assumption that organisational resources are limited. Usually, that is a safe assumption. If you compete on money/pay/promotion, you lock yourself into a situation where you gotta keep paying MORE and MORE, because people are addicted to the MONEY (that's greed) not to their jobs. If you have limited resources, then getting people addicted to money will only create a strong back lash of inertia when people realize that the pay ain't going up anymore... or going up as fast as it used to. So, I tell my clients to set up situations where you have a basket of OTHER motivators that make a job worth living.

Extrinsic motivation undermines intrinsic motivation. This is a robust finding. Parents who use rewards/punishments all the time cannot build self-motivation. When the external motivator is gone, so also is motivation. My own research examines intrinsic motivation - ways to increase that. Actually, I question the notion that extrinsic motivation is true motivation because the drive is provided by external factors such as money.

Very interesting perspective. As employers, our objective is mostly to get the job done with maximum profit. But parenting is a little different. We want our kids to be intrinsically motivated to do well even when we are no longer around to provide them with the motivation. And most of the time, we're not benefitting directly from what they do, save the pride and joy as parents.

I do agree with you that extrinsic motivation is not really motivation - it's more of a transaction. But in the world of business, everything is, in some sense, transactional. You just need to pay to keep or attract good people. The situation of having to pay more and more is inevitable in a competitive environment - you got to at least match what your competitors are offering. Yes, organisational resources are limited. That's why it's difficult to compete if you have less resources compared to your competitors. With other motivators, you may be able to get away with paying a little less, but not much less. The only other extrinsic motivator that work the same way as salary is share option or giving the employees a stake in the company - but that's also money, with some contingency built into it. But having other motivators would definitely make happier employees.

[rosemummy]

Chenonceau,


On the issue of RIVP which we talked about before, it just occurred to me that the FED was actually using RIVP when they allow Lehman to fail. But the punishment caused a lot of pain to others who are not supposed to be the object of the punishment.

[metz]

Hi Chenonceau ,


I just want to update you on my son's progress. Your recommended motivational strategies have proven most effective for my son. While he has not turned into a habitual writer overnight, he no longer finds writing a chore. In fact, he now gladly works on his weekly writing. No more pushing or naggings required, just a gentle reminder would set him off to his task.

However, he is still not open to unfavourable comments yet, so I am holding my tongue at the moment. Hopefully, I can resolve this in time to come.

Once again,
:thankyou:

[MummyThreeStreams]

This is a wonderful discussion! Thank you everyone for contributing your views and experience.


In relation to what Chenonceau said about extrinsic/intrinsic motivation ...

Chenonceau:

Extrinsic motivation undermines intrinsic motivation. This is a robust finding. Parents who use rewards/punishments all the time cannot build self-motivation. When the external motivator is gone, so also is motivation. My own research examines intrinsic motivation - ways to increase that. Actually, I question the notion that extrinsic motivation is true motivation because the drive is provided by external factors such as money.

So does this mean the sticker-chart (and other similar reward systems) and time-out systems will undermine self-motivation?

[tisha]

chamonix:

Hi Chenonceau ,


I just want to update you on my son's progress. Your recommended motivational strategies have proven most effective for my son. While he has not turned into a habitual writer overnight, he no longer finds writing a chore. In fact, he now gladly works on his weekly writing. No more pushing or naggings required, just a gentle reminder would set him off to his task.
However, he is still not open to unfavourable comments yet, so I am holding my tongue at the moment. Hopefully, I can resolve this in time to come.

Once again,
:thankyou:

Chamonix,
Thanks for sharing.

Chenonceau, Chamonix :grphug:

chamonix:

In fact, he now gladly works on his weekly writing. No more pushing or naggings required, just a gentle reminder would set him off to his task.

This in itself calls for a celebration. :celebrate:
Give yourself a pat on the back for following the suggestions and making it work for your DS. :rahrah: :rahrah: :rahrah:

[pixiedust]

It is really a big motivation to me to read the success stories.

Well done ! and do keep us posted along the way.

I have the same question as MummyThreeStreams about about sticker-chart/reward system.

[Chenonceau]

chamonix:

Hi Chenonceau ,


I just want to update you on my son's progress. Your recommended motivational strategies have proven most effective for my son. While he has not turned into a habitual writer overnight, he no longer finds writing a chore. In fact, he now gladly works on his weekly writing. No more pushing or naggings required, just a gentle reminder would set him off to his task.

However, he is still not open to unfavourable comments yet, so I am holding my tongue at the moment. Hopefully, I can resolve this in time to come.

Once again,
:thankyou:

:rahrah: :rahrah: :rahrah: This is great news!!

[Chenonceau]

pixiedust:

It is really a big motivation to me to read the success stories.

Well done ! and do keep us posted along the way.

I have the same question as MummyThreeStreams about about sticker-chart/reward system.

Generally, stickers/chops aren't very attractive in themselves. Unlike iPODS, handphones, Barbies etc... These THINGS are very attractive in themselves, and when given as rewards for good performance will attract ALL the positive association that goes with meeting and achieving goals. Actually, when you achieve a goal, you already feel happy AND you know that it's because you achieved something. You throw an iPOD into the situation and all that happy gets attracted to the iPOD and your child would have worked hard, achieved a goal... and missed out on the opportunity to build a mental connection between goal achievement and happiness. He makes an association to the iPOD instead.

Stickers and chops, if not attractive to the child in or for themselves, are not as harmful to instrinsic motivation. They are like praises and hugs. I use plenty of both with my kids.

But you know, it really depends on the situation. Some parents don't praise a lot. My husband doesn't. So, when he says something is ok... both my kids are elated. In previous generations, people feared that praises would attract the jealousy of evil spirits, so they made sure they did NOT praise the child. However, in gesture and look, they showed pride and approval. So, if you aren't like me (equipped with a squeal-y voice and so-in-love with hugs) then you can use stickers to communicate approval. Why not?

Then also, if your net worth is 100billion USD, and an iPOD to your kid is inconsequential, then you can start an iPOD reward chart for your kid. No harm done 'cos the iPOD isn't that attractive to your kid anyway.

Conversely, if you live in the slums and your kids have NO toys, then a sticker could well be attractive on its own, and then your kid would end up working hard for the stickers... no more stickers, no more effort.

It is tempting again to judge the strategies. Just because extrinsic undermines intrinsic does not mean that extrinsic motivation is a complete throwaway and is bad. There are situations where you can and MUST use extrinsic motivators.... praises and hugs and parental approval are (strictly speaking) extrinsic motivators too you know. The difference is that they aren't things, are fleeting. The happiness that lingers behind has a higher chance of attaching itself to the goal attained than to the hug or the nod of approval.

This said, there are SOME situations where a nod of approval holds so much attraction for the child that it effectively undermines their pleasure vis-a-vis the school subject. If the nods aren't forthcoming, then they're not interested. The human psyche is complex. Anything can happen and every situation requires a targeted response.

It could well be that sticker charts work in your specific situation.

Actually the rewards/punishment schedules many parents use arise from OB Mod theory, the same theory that gave us RIVP and RIVR... It is a well-researched and well-supported theory. It would not be wise to completely cut out rewards/punishment from parental toolbox of motivational strategies. They are useful in some situations. Salt aggravates high blood pressure, but we still have it in our kitchens. Some people cannot eat it... is all. People all different. Situations all different.

Just don't over use any strategy.

Praises if overused will have negative effects. If you allow kids to choose freely all the time, there will also be negative effects. They're all tools. Only tools. No good. No bad. Just keep 'em in toolbox and use them when the situation requires it. Dun have to throw away any.

[pixiedust]

Ah, okay okay…I see some light.


Over the past 1 day, I pondered over the insights shared in the post.
Have to say the char kway teow analogy is firmly stuck in my head !

Thanks heaps !

Now I have to think further and see if we can execute something…tough tough…