Petition to Review the Singapore Education System

[jtoh]

ksi:

jtoh:

[quote=\"sall\"]Well said! Jtoh.

But only a very small minority has this problem. The rest will adjust to the new way of learning and thrive in it.

I agree. The majority are able to adjust and thrive. In fact, I would say that most of the kids have no problems adjusting to the system and some of the top scorers continue to pull out top scores from their hats, scoring GPAs of 3.8-4.0.

Just wondering if they are doing this with normal efforts or sacrificing a lot to achieve this? I know many kids are able to pull out stellar results but at what price? If the price is nothing, then I would say there is no issue at all, case closed. [/quote]Don't think we can generalise on whether the top students are doing it with normal efforts or sacrificing a lot. There are different kids. Some are able to turn out sterling results on top of strong CCA plus leadership positions. Some are muggers who opt for the slackest CCA so they can focus on their studies. For me, a balanced and happy child is more important than grades.

[jtoh]

meinteel:

hi jtoh, I believe that many educators will agree with me when I say that all learning programs especially IP program and those genius programs at primary level are largely dependent on if your child is willing to enter as well as the learning style of the child.


If he/she has been resistant to study and spend most of his time \"mugging\" for those grades, then as parents you must seriously consider opting out for the child. These programs tend to expect the students to be self-motivated independent learners who find joy doing research and engaging in lengthly in depth discussions.

True.

[sall]

Hi Chenonceau, I’m not saying this psle system is perfect, neither am I advocating we should worship it. If you have taught in schools, there is a large number of students who are more interested to cause trouble than to learn. If we don’t pick out the best, then in the end, nobody learns anything.

If they are not separated according to academic results after P6, then when?

[Chenonceau]

sall:

Hi Chenonceau, I'm not saying this psle system is perfect, neither am I advocating we should worship it. If you have taught in schools, there is a large number of students who are more interested to cause trouble than to learn. If we don't pick out the best, then in the end, nobody learns anything.

If they are not separated according to academic results after P6, then when?

Hey... I guess we agree on some level then... I am also not saying the PSLE is all bad. Neither of us are absolutist, I don't think. I am just exploring the issue from a different angle. Truth is, we are both right because I am looking at the elephant from the side (it is flat like a wall), and you are seeing from the front (it is long like a rope). But both angles are truth and flesh out the issue better. I am really happy you gave your perspective, and I am not saying that to be nice. I mean it. You made some very very good points.

As to the question that some students just wanna play, and not study... Might it be because they were demoralized by this constant comparison that is inherent in every part of our system? When my son was in P1 and P2, (and was ranked somewhere at the bottom) he too was demoralized and was constantly trying to escape into the pleasant world of play. If there ever was a demotivated goof-around kid. My son was one.

If you're top of the heap, you feel good, and everyone praises you. Newspapers take pictures of you. You wanna try harder and keep on experiencing those good feelings. If you're not top of the heap... then...

These days, I try to ensure my son stays in the top 10 in class. I try to push him just enough for that, and if he wants to do better, he pushes himself a bit more. Why do I do that? Because as long as he is in Top 10, his self-efficacy and sense of self-worth stays high. He maintains a positive view of his studies. Let someone else's daughter or son be in the 11 to 40 places and feel bad. I dun want my kids to feel bad. So selfish right? But whatta do? The system is like that.

Our family copes, but we do see children falling off the boat into the sea. Worse thing is that since everyone is competing for places at the top, both children and parents learn to jubilate when others fare worse in exams. So mean right? Whatta do? System is like that.

In a class of 40, the top 10 feel good, the middle 20 feels a bit off... and the bottom 10 feels positively lousy. Roughly, the bottom 20 feels not great at all. They see their placement. They decide that they're lousy at studying... and of course, they dun like to study.

Put all these together in a class and they will all agree to goof around. Put all these in a school and they will goof around even more. So, what are the returns on investment? Out of 40 kids, we have 10 at the top who stay engaged and 30 at the bottom who are disengaged. 75% of emotional rejects... academically defective goods... Seems like quite a lotta wastage.

You dun need parents to compare ranking. Kids will. I told my son that no matter how badly he ranks, I would still love him. But hey... he was still not very motivated to study until he found that he had somehow topped the class in something in P3.

But in every paper, there is only ONE at the top. He/She is the ONE out of 40 to feel really good.

[vlim]

actually being the 'top' is a stressful thing too..as u might not be the top for the next exam or next next exam and u would feel even more stress if u need to upkeep to be the 'top'...Actually it depends on the kids..some kids would strive to achieve their best ...some kids don't bother (happy go lucky)... some kids feel stress when they see their parents' face expression after knowing their unsatisfactory results..

So as a parent, I think first of all, we need to know our kids character..from there we know how to motivate them and encourage them. I have 2 kids with pretty different character...till now I am still 'learning' how to motivate them accordingly though most of the time can be a bit naggy but bopian...So sometime, I got to be relax and they will also feel relax....
hope I am not off topic

[Chenonceau]

vlim:

actually being the 'top' is a stressful thing too..as u might not be the top for the next exam or next next exam and u would feel even more stress if u need to upkeep to be the 'top'...Actually it depends on the kids..some kids would strive to achieve their best ...some kids don't bother (happy go lucky)... some kids feel stress when they see their parents' face expression after knowing their unsatisfactory results..

So as a parent, I think first of all, we need to know our kids character..from there we know how to motivate them and encourage them. I have 2 kids with pretty different character...till now I am still 'learning' how to motivate them accordingly though most of the time can be a bit naggy but bopian...So sometime, I got to be relax and they will also feel relax....

My PhD was in Human Motivation. It was quite easy to turn a goof-around kid into a very driven one.

[vlim]

Chenonceau:

vlim:

actually being the 'top' is a stressful thing too..as u might not be the top for the next exam or next next exam and u would feel even more stress if u need to upkeep to be the 'top'...Actually it depends on the kids..some kids would strive to achieve their best ...some kids don't bother (happy go lucky)... some kids feel stress when they see their parents' face expression after knowing their unsatisfactory results..

So as a parent, I think first of all, we need to know our kids character..from there we know how to motivate them and encourage them. I have 2 kids with pretty different character...till now I am still 'learning' how to motivate them accordingly though most of the time can be a bit naggy but bopian...So sometime, I got to be relax and they will also feel relax....

My PhD was in Human Motivation. It was quite easy to turn a goof-around kid into a very driven one.

wow..in that case u should have no problem in motivating your children

[Suz855]

\" I suggest that your gal or yourself bring it up with the teacher. It is the teacher's responsibility to everything within the syllabus. However, we tend to skip or just summarise the the topics when the class claim that they have learnt and understand the topic. The reasoning is that we don't want to bore the students and allow them to lose interest\"


Hi Meinteel, we did sms her FT and request him to intervene ... however he seem to agree with the trainee teacher 'light speed' teaching & even told us that the class would then have more time to do challenging problem solving ... he seem to missed our point .... :slapshead: how to do challenging sums when basic Maths concept is not even there .... so needless to say .... we have to self help lor .... anyway, I am so looking forward to the day when the school can do its job well & we, parent just spend time bonding with our kids ..........

[Chenonceau]

vlim:

Chenonceau:

[quote=\"vlim\"]actually being the 'top' is a stressful thing too..as u might not be the top for the next exam or next next exam and u would feel even more stress if u need to upkeep to be the 'top'...Actually it depends on the kids..some kids would strive to achieve their best ...some kids don't bother (happy go lucky)... some kids feel stress when they see their parents' face expression after knowing their unsatisfactory results..

So as a parent, I think first of all, we need to know our kids character..from there we know how to motivate them and encourage them. I have 2 kids with pretty different character...till now I am still 'learning' how to motivate them accordingly though most of the time can be a bit naggy but bopian...So sometime, I got to be relax and they will also feel relax....

My PhD was in Human Motivation. It was quite easy to turn a goof-around kid into a very driven one.

wow..in that case u should have no problem in motivating your children [/quote]Nope... nope... nope I don't. Hee!!

I allowed the goofing off in P1 and P2 as part of a long term strategy to build internal drive. My daughter was bottom 25% of her year in P1 and P2. By the time she got to secondary school she was so driven she landed in hospital from not enough rest. It comes with its own set of problems.

But oh dear... we have gone off topic hor....
:clubmyself: Sorry! Time to stop boasting and be humble.

[Busymom]

Chenonceau:

Even if PSLE is best tool to divide children into ability groups. Why is it necessary to pick the best, and set them apart?


Does setting the best apart from others really develop their heart and their skills for leadership?

I think you can't stop this from happening. The Ivy Leagues are what they are because they pick the best. Your intention of having your son get into RI or HCI originates from the impression/realisation that these 2 best schools open up so many more opportunities/doors, right?

Actually, your current thinking is molded by what you saw your daughter experienced in the IP school. Aren't the better secondary schools also giving the same opportunity to their best? Just like in neighbourhood primary schools, the cream of the crop get special attention and are sent for all kinds of free enrichments (I have seen that from my friends' kids in neighbourhood schools).

Just my opinion, but if MOE really randomly allocates students with PSLE score of between 240-280 to a list of so-called good schools, more parents would be even more stressed. Just look at what is happening in P1 registration each year. People doing all sorts of things to get into their school of choice through the earlier phases so as to avoid having to go through balloting.

On the other hand, if you ask any parent whose child has scored above 260 or 265 in PSLE, would they agree that the system here should be one that randomly allocates their child to a list of good schools (and not forgetting one that may be far from home) that accept anyone from 240-280?

Apart from that, what are we telling our children? That it is right for one to accept what one is given (as in allocated to a school), and not work hard for what one desires? A bit similar to working in an organisation where whether you work hard or not, you receive the same bonus as everyone else in the company. :roll: By the way, this is the way most companies in Australia distribute bonus to their staff.

I don't think this can last. At some point, some parents are going to say that we need a privately-run school for those who do well in their PSLE. In that case, only those who could afford are able to attend such a school? This is like what has happened in the UK. The privately-run schools are so expensive, but some parents feel that they don't have a choice as these are the better schools.

Maybe one way to make primary school here less stressful or academically driven is to make PSLE easier to score. That way, many more students will get A* for all subjects, and there will be many who could qualify for top schools. Selection of students by schools will then have to be based not just on PSLE score, but CCA record, school colours &/or leadership qualities.

Chenonceau:

Later, in the car, I have to make sure I remind my daughter that she is the best at NOTHING as yet, except selfish studying. I make sure I bring her back down to earth.

:salute: More parents should remind their children that.