Petition to Review the Singapore Education System

[Chenonceau]

We need more signatures for the petition. Trying to get 1000.


Here are the parents' comments...
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?SgEd2011&1

I particularly like the one by Magnum Thia who wrote, \"Please add : Such stressful Education systems will also put off many couple for having more kids. Baby Bonus will have little effect if the Singapore Education Systems is not thoroughly reviewed. \"

This comment speaks personally to me because I decided against Baby #3 last year because I couldn't face another PSLE.

[janet88]

Chenonceau:

We need more signatures for the petition. Trying to get 1000.


I particularly like the one by Magnum Thia who wrote, \"Please add : Such stressful Education systems will also put off many couple for having more kids. Baby Bonus will have little effect if the Singapore Education Systems is not thoroughly reviewed. \"

This comment speaks personally to me because I decided against Baby #3 last year because I couldn't face another PSLE.

The tough education system is a big reason why couples are not having more kids. Baby bonus is no push factor...jabs, diapers, waking up nights is something parents have to go through with newborns...but after that phase, it's the education system that kills for another 10 years at least.

After my son finishes his PSLE in Sep next year, I would have to continue being on 4th gear as daughter faces SA2 (P2) and subsequently Science at P3. As it is, she does not have the luxury to enjoy honeymoon at P1 this year...dread to think of P2.

[coast]

2ppaamm:

Chen, did you see MOE's facebook page? They say T-score is not based on bell curve. I know for sure it is, unless it was changed in recent years and I have not kept updated. (Which is quite weird because my last child went through PSLE in 2009).


Then, how is T-score calculated? I know the subject grades (A*, A, B etc) are based on actual achievement and not on peer results, but T-score is.

Hi 2ppaamm,

What do you mean by \"subject grades (A*, A, B etc) are based on actual achievement and not on peer results\"? Unless there is an official statement that gives a mark range for A*, A, B, ... etc ... I think it is always \"transformed\" based on peer results. For e.g., say in PSLE 20XX,
1) For Maths, alot of students score 95 and above
2) For Science, only few students score above 90
If your child scores 91 in Maths ... he might just get an A instead of A* that year while a 80++ score could be an A* for Science. So the \"mark range\" for A*, A, B, ... etc fluctuates each year depending on the peer results for each subject.

So while MOE replies that \"SEAB also does not allow the difficulty of examinations to ratchet up every year\" ... if there are alot of students scoring very high marks for a particular subject ... a 91 is not sufficient for an A*, a 80++ could just be a B ... etc. Hence the concern that it is not a level playing field when rich kids could afford expensive enrichment/tuition which teaches what the schools don't, highly educated parents could coach their kids (assuming they have the time and patience), ... etc.

However, if the teachers and textbooks teach everything that is examinable, then at least kids from an average or low-income background would not be significantly disadvantaged. Otherwise, even if the kid does well on his own (say 91 or 80++), the \"transformed\" subject grades and the eventual T-score would not be comparable to his peers. Hence my \"shock\" when I read posts from parents here that their bright kids struggle with their tests as a significant portion is not taught by teachers.

The above is my personal understanding. To me, some parents will always send their kids to enrichment/tuition no matter what is the system. What is important is schools and teachers have to teach ALL students what is examinable in PSLE. This would mean a bright child who is self-motivated has no issues getting into top 10% of the cohort on his own while other kids would also have a chance to make it as they would realise what they know (or don't) in schools. So we need to understand the issues on why certain schools do not practise that and how MOE can help on this (teachers overload due to other tasks? syllabus too difficult to teach? lack of good resources/materials for the teachers? ...). I strongly believe that we have lots of good teachers out there who care about the kids under their guidance.

[Chenonceau]

Coast... I'm not entirely sure but I think Pam meant this (see text in blue below, taken from - http://www.tuitioncentresingapore.com/PSLE-information-psle-guide-about-the-psle.html) -----



Grading System

For the core examinable subjects, the following grading system is adopted.

Mark Range Grade
91 and above A*
75 to 90 A
60 to 74 B
50 to 59 C
35 to 49 D
20 to 34 E
Below 20 F
For the optional subjects, the following grading system is adopted. These grades are not taken into account in computing the overall aggregate score for the pupils. However, the grades would be reflected on the PSLE results slip.

Mark Range Grade
80 and above Distinction
65 to 79 Merit
50 to 64 Pass
Below 50 Ungraded
For the EM3 Stream, another grading system is adopted as the papers that are taken are different. The follow grading system is used in grading these papers.

Mark Range Grade
85 and above G1
70 to 84 G2
50 to 69 G3
30 to 49 G4
Below 30 U
Examinable Subjects of PSLE

The Primary School Leaving Examinations consists of the examination of four main subjects and two optional subjects. The four main subjects include English Language, Mother Tongue Language, Mathematics and Science. Optional examinable subjects include Higher Mother Tongue Language and Social Studies.

[Chenonceau]

coast:

To me, some parents will always send their kids to enrichment/tuition no matter what is the system. What is important is schools and teachers have to teach ALL students what is examinable in PSLE. This would mean a bright child who is self-motivated has no issues getting into top 10% of the cohort on his own while other kids would also have a chance to make it as they would realise what they know (or don't) in schools. So we need to understand the issues on why certain schools do not practise that and how MOE can help on this (teachers overload due to other tasks? syllabus too difficult to teach? lack of good resources/materials for the teachers? ...). I strongly believe that we have lots of good teachers out there who care about the kids under their guidance.

:goodpost: Referring to \"resources/materials\"... Not surprising leh... since the really good resource writers can sell their books for $40/= a pop if they LEAVE MOE and start their own thing.

Seriously, compare your official Math textbook with Onsponge... and then with your child's P5 SA1 paper and you will see that Onsponge is much better written and more in line with the exam paper. \"Some schools use Onsponge as the textbook\" said my son's Math Teacher.

Next, compare any of the school-based materials given on Model Drawing (whether to parents during workshops or to children in the form of textbooks and supplementary materials) with Math Heuristics' Model Approach to Problem-Solving: Stack and Split to Solve Challenging Problems Fast, and it is clear that Math Heuristics' $40/= book covers model drawing far more comprehensively and coherently in a SINGLE book than any school-based resource my son has received.

[2ppaamm]

deleted. Duplicate.

[2ppaamm]

coast:

2ppaamm:

Chen, did you see MOE's facebook page? They say T-score is not based on bell curve. I know for sure it is, unless it was changed in recent years and I have not kept updated. (Which is quite weird because my last child went through PSLE in 2009).


Then, how is T-score calculated? I know the subject grades (A*, A, B etc) are based on actual achievement and not on peer results, but T-score is.

Hi 2ppaamm,

What do you mean by \"subject grades (A*, A, B etc) are based on actual achievement and not on peer results\"? Unless there is an official statement that gives a mark range for A*, A, B, ... etc ... I think it is always \"transformed\" based on peer results. For e.g., say in PSLE 20XX,
1) For Maths, alot of students score 95 and above
2) For Science, only few students score above 90
If your child scores 91 in Maths ... he might just get an A instead of A* that year while a 80++ score could be an A* for Science. So the \"mark range\" for A*, A, B, ... etc fluctuates each year depending on the peer results for each subject.

So while MOE replies that \"SEAB also does not allow the difficulty of examinations to ratchet up every year\" ... if there are alot of students scoring very high marks for a particular subject ... a 91 is not sufficient for an A*, a 80++ could just be a B ... etc. Hence the concern that it is not a level playing field when rich kids could afford expensive enrichment/tuition which teaches what the schools don't, highly educated parents could coach their kids (assuming they have the time and patience), ... etc.

However, if the teachers and textbooks teach everything that is examinable, then at least kids from an average or low-income background would not be significantly disadvantaged. Otherwise, even if the kid does well on his own (say 91 or 80++), the \"transformed\" subject grades and the eventual T-score would not be comparable to his peers. Hence my \"shock\" when I read posts from parents here that their bright kids struggle with their tests as a significant portion is not taught by teachers.

The above is my personal understanding. To me, some parents will always send their kids to enrichment/tuition no matter what is the system. What is important is schools and teachers have to teach ALL students what is examinable in PSLE. This would mean a bright child who is self-motivated has no issues getting into top 10% of the cohort on his own while other kids would also have a chance to make it as they would realise what they know (or don't) in schools. So we need to understand the issues on why certain schools do not practise that and how MOE can help on this (teachers overload due to other tasks? syllabus too difficult to teach? lack of good resources/materials for the teachers? ...). I strongly believe that we have lots of good teachers out there who care about the kids under their guidance.

Coast, if you refer to MOE's page http://www.facebook.com/notes/ministry-of-education-singapore/measures-in-place-in-exam-and-admissions-systems-to-reduce-pressure-on-students-/10150302450237004, the subject grades are not transformed. So if a child gets 91, he will still get his A* even if the whole of the cohort scores above 91. This is like the 'O' levels, everyone gets A1 for scoring >75.

The T-score, on the other hand, is a transformed score. Unless they have already changed the system, what I knew it to be was:

((Your marks - mean of cohort)/standard deviation)*10 +50.

If you examine this carefully, this is the same as the normal distribution's calcuation of 'z', which is (x-mean)/s.d. Meaning, the PSLE students are put exactly on the bell curve. Know a little more about this normal distribution here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

So, a child who is exactly average, will be contributing exactly 50 to his T-score for each of his subject, making the T-score of 200 always the average T-score in any year, no matter how capable he is, his score is derived from this distribution, and against the cohort. Hence, technically, there is no max to T-score, and no min.

It also means that it is hard to tell what T-score is for top 10%, because it depends on the standard deviation that year. Typically, 68% of our students fall within one standard deviation from the mean of 200 (can be higher or lower). And, the top 10% should be about 1.5 standard deviations higher than 200. So if the standard deviation is high that year, your top 10% will have a lower T-score, if the s.d. is low, the top 10% (or cutoff for 3rd language) should be relative higher.

Unless the ministry has changed this, in which parents like us are not informed, or if there are moderations done, in which they are not revealed. Then I tend to agree with Chen that we are put on a bell curve.

Now if MOE says that T-score is not a bell curve, then they should really tell us what distribution they are using, or how this T-score is calculated (the calculation above was given to me 5 years ago by my son's school principal). Why should this be a secret? Or maybe it will take many man years to derive the forumula?

Sorry I'm a bit technical here. Just trying to put across a point. Also, don't ask me the technicalities of this statistical studies, I'm just doing this quickly. If I make a mistake in my calculation/formula, let me know. But largely, I know I should be right.

[Sun_2010]

2ppaamm,


A small point-
there seems to be a a typo in the T-score formula
it should be
((Your marks - mean of cohort)*10/standard deviation) +50
The times 10 is missing in your post.

Excellent discussion going on here , thanks ladies

[2ppaamm]

Sun_2010:

2ppaamm,


A small point-
there seems to be a a typo in the T-score formula
it should be
((Your marks - mean of cohort)*10/standard deviation) +50
The times 10 is missing in your post.

Excellent discussion going on here , thanks ladies

Oops, changed that already. I am just doing this from memory... Thanks for the reminder, so looks like the formula is still in force, aye? So our children are put on a bell curve.

[jenao]

coast:

The above is my personal understanding. To me, some parents will always send their kids to enrichment/tuition no matter what is the system. What is important is schools and teachers have to teach ALL students what is examinable in PSLE. This would mean a bright child who is self-motivated has no issues getting into top 10% of the cohort on his own while other kids would also have a chance to make it as they would realise what they know (or don't) in schools. So we need to understand the issues on why certain schools do not practise that and how MOE can help on this (teachers overload due to other tasks? syllabus too difficult to teach? lack of good resources/materials for the teachers? ...). I strongly believe that we have lots of good teachers out there who care about the kids under their guidance.

Coast, your last para here really summarized the whole problem with our education system. Seriously, if a child cannot work on his own for his achievement, what are we teaching the kids? Will they be able to get tuition when they are in university, when they need someone to solve their work problem? THis also goes agst the fact that education levels the playing field. Clearly, if students are not taught what they shld be taught in school and really needed tuition to do well, MOE must seriously look at the whole system. It is no longer parents who are kiasu. MOE cannot even provide the basic necessity for the students to do well, never mind if they put in the hard work or not. THis is so different from out time when all we had to do was pay attention in school, do our homework diligently and revise well and ace the papers.

Having read 2ppaamm reply, MOE must also explain pt 2 and pt 5 of their reply. It is very confusing to say that they do not grade according to the bell curve when the t-score is based on the bell-curve. As long as the t-score is graded based on the bell curve, which is the all important score secondary schools look at, then PSLE score is based on bell-curve. There is no need to play with words and confuse everyone.