Advice - Divorce or Not to Divorce

[Ahmih]

btw, I think after that prostitutes episode, she pressed and he confessed that when they were dating in the beginning, he visited pro too. So, honestly, that sounds like a relapse that had gotten worst until she found out the last 2 years.


She told me, if she knew that before marriage, she won’t get herself wedded to him. Would you?

[mintcc]

[quote]In this case, what's better off? For her to go or stay?[/quote]
I believe only your friend can answer the question..like the question of love, no body else can take her place and decide for her. She will have to look within to know her feelings for the husband is now and eventually decide which path is better for her and for her children. Let her take her time. You won't want her to make the decision and have doubt in her hear whether she had the right deision.

[winth]

mincy:

I believe only your friend can answer the question..like the question of love, no body else can take her place and decide for her. She will have to look within to know her feelings for the husband is now and eventually decide which path is better for her and for her children. Let her take her time. You won't want her to make the decision and have doubt in her hear whether she had the right deision.

Fully agreed.

Going for counselling is not easy, esp for Asians, plus even more difficult for husbands - no face mar...

If what you cited is a true representative of your gf's state, here's what I'll do.

I'll 'request' (note: not quarrel and run out of house in a heated manner) for a separation (note: divorce is never on my mind at this stage), move out from the house. Avoid all (phone, visual, letter, email) contact with husband, tell him he can visit the children but you get an intermediary to pass the children over to him, not via the wife.
If husband is interested, he can update more about wife via children (Children works miracles in a marriage).

This serves as a warning, a serious warning.
Separations are alot easier to patch up, as compared to divorces. Once you sign on the dotted line, that's quite it.

PS: There is a fantastic thread started by insider on 'Extra Marital Affairs' and how she handled it calmly. Maybe you could get your friend to read through to get an idea.

[Busymom]

It is tough indeed…


On one hand, outsiders who are not fully aware of the details would not be able to offer comprehensive advice. On the other hand, sometimes it takes people who are outside of the situation to see things in clearer perspective and not get wrapped up in some self-denial. Sometimes, it is the fear of the unknown (i.e. life without him) that stops people from thinking logically. Of course, there is also the emotional and sentimental part that one may find hard to let go.

As her friend, you are probably in a good position to point out certain things for her. Try to see things from her perspective, and if you know the husband, then you could also assess if he is really making some effort to salvage the marriage.

A leopard will never change its spots. If the addiction to visit pros is due to certain biological reasons, it is probably treatable. If the husband is sincere about holding the family together, he has to seek treatment for it. If he still wants to keep his hobby so to speak, I wonder which woman in her sane mind would be able to tolerate that? Your friend is risking losing her own sanity by choosing to live with him. What about the children? Would they feel ashamed that their father is visiting pros when they grow up? Worse, would they think that this lifestyle is acceptable since mummy puts up with it?? I have a friend who put up with this from her husband for many years. Eventually, they got divorced as among other reasons, she was also concerned that her daughter would think that this is an acceptable behaviour from a husband.

Let me tell you my own experience. My parents also had lots of awful fights and quarrels when I was young. It was traumatic as far as I was concerned. I honestly wish that she would leave him. There was once when she went to see a lawyer, bringing me along. I was in Primary 3. The lawyer asked me if my parents were to divorce, would it be ok. I nodded my head. He then asked who would I want to follow and I replied that it would be my mother. Eventually, my mom decided against it. Not entirely sure why (although I think partly there was an "advice" from the higher order). But it took many many more years of heartaches and tears on her part as there would be more incidents to follow.

I guess at the end of the day, different people would have different opinions, different experiences, different situations and different types of husband. Lastly, everyone would also have different tolerance threshold. It is important that your friend knows what is hers. The worst thing that could ever happen would be if she ends up hurting hershelf and her children.

[Ahmih]

winth:

I'll 'request' (note: not quarrel and run out of house in a heated manner) for a separation (note: divorce is never on my mind at this stage), move out from the house. Avoid all (phone, visual, letter, email) contact with husband, tell him he can visit the children but you get an intermediary to pass the children over to him, not via the wife.
If husband is interested, he can update more about wife via children (Children works miracles in a marriage).

Hi Winth,
the thing with her husband is, he doesn't want to move out. So if my GF moves, she'll hv to bring kids along and that would disrupt the kids schooling and she doesn't want that. She prefers to stay and he moves.
What's the objective of separation? To cool off or to re-evaluate? Her MIL said she won't let her son live with her if they divorce, I don't know abt separation lah.

I'll ask her to check out the thread on extra marital affairs...

And talking about inflicting hurt, my GF looks at betrayal very seriously. Don't know why. She had once attempted to strangle her husband when he was going to bed becos she was so angry. So, honestly, I think her threshold for betrayal is about reached. She had mentioned before, she feel she may lose control and potong her husband or do something to him :!: ... if he continues to take her for granted and cheat on her again. I'm worried for her, that's why also don't know if staying is good for her. No one can control that guy except himself. And if he still thinks it's alright as long as he pay the bills and wipe himself clean, then what's gonna happen? :shock:

I feel that her exasperation roots from her trying to forgive her husband since 2 years back and the repayment has been disappointments for her. Hitting her, continuation of porn, occasional cheats that she caught hold of thru his hp sms. If husband is real repentant, all that shouldn't hv happened right? If you know you're bad and you feel bad, shouldn't you work to change? But he still insisted to keep a part (the 'lust' hobby loh) of him? the part that started all the evil betwn them as far as I know. And not that enthusiastic abt counseling. She said in his opinion, it's just btween the 2 of them to work out their relationship, counselor please stand aside.

[Ahmih]

Busymom:

It is tough indeed...


Let me tell you my own experience. My parents also had lots of awful fights and quarrels when I was young. It was traumatic as far as I was concerned. I honestly wish that she would leave him. There was once when she went to see a lawyer, bringing me along. I was in Primary 3. The lawyer asked me if my parents were to divorce, would it be ok. I nodded my head. He then asked who would I want to follow and I replied that it would be my mother. Eventually, my mom decided against it. Not entirely sure why (although I think partly there was an \"advice\" from the higher order). But it took many many more years of heartaches and tears on her part as there would be more incidents to follow.

Are you thankful and happy that your mum decided against divorce back then? Is it not possible for a woman to live happy with her kids and not have a man? If the man is not caring or thoughtful and staying together is like no difference as being on her own (except she doesn't hv to pay household bills) :roll: , won't she be happier on her own?

[winth]

Ahmih:

the thing with her husband is, he doesn't want to move out. So if my GF moves, she'll hv to bring kids along and that would disrupt the kids schooling and she doesn't want that. She prefers to stay and he moves.

Sometimes, it is more about determination here when wife decides to give husband show down. If there are so many considerations, then it's gonna make such a move-out plan very difficult to achieve its purpose.

Ahmih:

What's the objective of separation? To cool off or to re-evaluate?

Separation serves as a form of warning and 'punishment' without blowing tops. Reconciliation comes with conditions attached.
Similar to Jo Frost's 'naughty corner' for the children. Children get to come off from 'naught corner', but told not to do it again. Do again, 'naughty corner' again.

Ahmih:

Her MIL said she won't let her son live with her if they divorce, I don't know abt separation lah.

Third parties... sigh...
It's difficult to go past a doting mother who fends her son.

[Ahmih]

winth,

Agree with the punishment and condition thingy. As she told me, 3 weeks ago, she told her husband that's it. She's giving up for good since she cannot live in fear of offending her husband verbally (for not phrasing words positively when she spoke to him btw, they were not even arguing she said) and getting beaten for that. And many times, she felt her husband hostility in speech towards her. Also she really cannot stand him surfing and downloading porn every nite. As I understd, they hardly talk to each other prior to that nite. She wanted a divorce. Her husband said no no and ask her to think for kids. That's when she turned soft again.

The best part, :lol: haha.. her husband ask her what about the wedding vow she made? to stick together, in good times and bad... blah blah... said she's going back on her vow.... can you believe??! what about his vow and part?

So, the condition to stay was: he totally give up porn. And he said he can and want to so that the family is intact. After that nite, she found on two occasions, he still downloaded porn. Although now the pc is not on 24 hours download (can u beat that!), she feels he's still carrying on intermitent and not totally ready to get 'treated'.

So, it would make sense for her to go for separation since he eats his word, right? As 'punishment', she thought maybe getting him to sign on dotted line and then go for counseling is better than separation. As we understand, file for divorce and then go for counseling has a duration of maximum 1 year. If he fails the counselor grading after 12 mths, bye-bye he goes. Is this a good idea? :idea:

[Busymom]

Ahmih:

She had once attempted to strangle her husband when he was going to bed becos she was so angry. So, honestly, I think her threshold for betrayal is about reached. She had mentioned before, she feel she may lose control and potong her husband or do something to him :!: ...

There you see, that's what I mean that she may end up hurting herself or the children. Haven't we seen enough tragic stories of spouses who went besek and then did something to either the spouse or the children?

On your earlier question to me, I personally think it is possible to live a happy life without a husband who has strayed. During those years when the problem existed between my parents, I could not understand why she did not choose to end the marriage... the fights could be quite scary, maybe not to the point of life and death, but we were all worried. I think she did too, so she would run to us children whenever things got ugly. I believed she would have brought us up well anyway as it was my mom who mostly supported the family in terms of daily maintenance. My dad had a reasonably good-paying job, but he was very stingy with the family and somehow his money went out in more than one ways... If she had divorced him, he would be forced to pay her maintenance, in fact, she probably would have gained more financially!

What I cannot speak for her, is the emotion part. She chose to stay with him, put aside her misgivings (I hope) and in her later years, their relationship was amicable. I wouldn't say it was loving, but there was definitely companionship. Still, given her personality, I have no doubt she would have been just as happy and have a full life with many friends around her.

[Fluffy]

Hi Ahmil,


As I was reading the exchanges, I recalled a GF with problems of husband constantly going drinking with his buddies and staying out late with excuses. She suspected her husband was fooling around. At the same time, she had problems with her mother in-laws and sisters-in-law. With no close family to support her emotionally, she was so miserable that a few times she contemplated jumping down from her flat with her 2 young kids.

As her confidante, I would advise you to keep close contact with her and watch for any sign of suicidal intention. When a person feels she can no longer tolerate the misery and hurt inflicted, she may feel life is no longer worth living as she may feel that whatever path she choose would be too painful for all parties. She may also make illogical decisions which may cause harm to her close ones without realisation. At this point of time, she needs her friends and family physical and emotional support.

Your GF needs to take small steps and not to expect overnight changes even though they have tried counselling. Whatever decisions she make, its important she feels the support of her family and friends. Only then, could she has the strength to move on and put her misery behind. No matter what advices friends, family, counsellors or even outsiders give, for a marriage to sustain, there must be mutual love which follows with trust, faithfulness, respect and care. If she truly feels that her husband has been trying hard to keep the marriage, she must also be prepared to allow him time to improve. No man is without flaws but no man should suffer prolong agony for the sake of togetherness. ONLY DEEP IN THE HEART SHE KNOWS IF THE MARRIAGE IS WORTH THE EFFORT TO STAY!