MOE Relooking P1 registration - Too much priority to alumni
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vratenza:
Im not really catching you, Vratenza.
You have chosen to sieve out sentimentality among other considerations to support your argument........let's put it back in perspective:3Boys:
Sentimentality does not trump fairness. There is no fairness in a hereditary system of Primary school priority admission, just because some parents have a sentimental attachment. We are a democracy, not a monarchy.
1) sentimentality.
2) assurance from 1st hand experience with regards to the actual school culture, programs and level of stress bestowed upon the students.
3) familiarity in terms of school staff, teaching style and environment giving the parents assurance that the child is in safe and familiar hands.
4) confidence in the school achieving the results because you had been through the same system.
5) avoid PV and balloting.
alumni = monarchy? might as well add in communism to for the added drama?
So you think its is fairness to give ABSOLUTE PRIORITY to the alumnis for the above reasons??
Too bad - lesser Singaporeans who never went to such schools - you cant join in the crowd because you werent from there although you pay tax (like every other SG) and indirectly fund these schools.
Ok -- i am soooooo going to be slammed in my face....
Better siam first. :siam: -
vicki:
Yes. Fairness is subjective but still - i dont see why secondary students of FULL SCHOOLS should be accorded such additional priviledges - i mean - we are talking abt OLD BOYS/ OLD GIRLS for primary school admission right? The secondary school student would have a 'primary school' to begin with (well, at least most) - so WHY should these secondary students of these schools be given 'additional priviledges'??
Fairness is subjective I guess. And one should really understand the situation from inside better before lambasting the rule as being \"unfair\"vratenza:
[quote=\"vicki\"]Hi veratenza,
Actually I hve another grouse which I hope the govt can look into.
Because u went to CHS in secondary (I presume) n CHS is a 'full school', therefore u will be considered hvg priority cos u are also a alumni. This will mean u hve priority into 2 schools.
I don't find this 'fair'.
Why should some schools be considered as 'full school' n some schools don't?
U may argue that culture same etc or even that if a kid changes primar school (he would also hve 2 'alumni' schools to choose from.
To this I say;
1) Alot of other schools hve same culture but not considered as Full schools - why the diacrepancies?
2) Number of kids changing schools (per school) each year is not overly significant unlike 'Full Schools' with one whole cohort of students graduating each year for 'O' levels.
Do away with 'Full School' alumni (2A) connections I say....
To me it's fair because CHS Primary and Secondary are housed in the same compound, share the facilities and even canteen, the same school management committee and during my days, I remembered myself helping out in the primary school's sport's day, excursions and such. There are mentoring programs for the older secondary school students to help the younger primary section students.
It is one big family. :snuggles:
I'm not sure if your \"alot of other schools\" have the same level of linkage? Or they are simply sharing the same name, uniform maybe school anthem but in reality minding their own business on the running of the school?
You talk abt same school compound - well - one example is CHIJ Toa Payoh. So whats the difference? Maybe just different principal (one for P n one for S) and 2 canteens. If full school just means one P n one canteen - then simply just get rid of one of the P and one of the canteen lor - QED? No?? So pls do tell me, what is the difference (the REAL difference) between CHS/ St Nics and the likes of CHIJ TP? Difference is 2 Ps and another canteen??
Culture wise - i dare say is the same - HOW much different can the IJ culture be? Ask any IJ gals and they will tell you - culture is same in both P n S - and how would i know? cos i was an IJ gal.
So back to this, since there is no clear distinction between CHS/ St Nics ( Full School) and a school like CHIJ TP - then why should the former be accorded extra benefits?
I mean surely if the difference is just for a P n a canteen - it cannot be too difficult to cut one of the Ps (just get 2 VPs lah - one running each section) and remove a canteen right in CHIJ TP right?
Ok - im probably asking to be slammed by the CHS and the likes BUT REALLY - i would like to understand the CLEAR difference between these schools and one like CHIJ TP.[/quote]I am beginning to see your point.
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vratenza:
Ok - lets continue with this discussion.
you chose to ignore my most pertinent point, and if you cannot see beyond this, I have no more to add..really....
\"the same school management committee and during my days, I remembered myself helping out in the primary school's sport's day, excursions and such. There are mentoring programs for the older secondary school students to help the younger primary section students.
It is one big family.\"
Same school mgmt comm? Not difficult wat - just combine 2 groups to report under one P.
Help out primary school areas - not difficult wat? If there is only one Principal - he can ask his students to do it.
So the underlying problem is BECAUSE there are 2 Principals - each therefore does not have absolute authority over both areas. However, if one ask the other to help - it will surely be rendered (in those rare occassion). So is it a simplistic thing to say - remove one P and therefore it is a Full School?
My boy is in the primary section of a FULL SCHOOL now and No, i dont see the secondary students helping out much. Recess time? the P5 guides. Excursion? PVs/ PSG helps out.
So - back to my - EXACTLY what constitutes a FULL SCHOOL n what doesnt? Is it a 2 P vs 1 P issue?
So No - im not avoiding your line of thought - i just want to know what differentiates CHS/St Nics with CHIJ TP? -
vicki:
Im not really catching you, Vratenza.
You have chosen to sieve out sentimentality among other considerations to support your argument........let's put it back in perspective:vratenza:
[quote=\"3Boys\"]
Sentimentality does not trump fairness. There is no fairness in a hereditary system of Primary school priority admission, just because some parents have a sentimental attachment. We are a democracy, not a monarchy.
1) sentimentality.
2) assurance from 1st hand experience with regards to the actual school culture, programs and level of stress bestowed upon the students.
3) familiarity in terms of school staff, teaching style and environment giving the parents assurance that the child is in safe and familiar hands.
4) confidence in the school achieving the results because you had been through the same system.
5) avoid PV and balloting.
alumni = monarchy? might as well add in communism to for the added drama?
So you think its is fairness to give ABSOLUTE PRIORITY to the alumnis for the above reasons??
Too bad - lesser Singaporeans who never went to such schools - you cant join in the crowd because you werent from there although you pay tax (like every other SG) and indirectly fund these schools.
Ok -- i am soooooo going to be slammed in my face....
Better siam first. :siam:[/quote]the ABSOLUTE PRIORITY at this point in time are the P1. there is no Absolute priority for P2 at this stage...you can argue till the cows come home on the CAP vs no CAP issue, that's not my fight.
And the list I proposed are just reasons why some parents prefer to choose their alumni for their children. Please read the post carefully and refrain from altering my intentions.
Please do not start stirring the hornet's nest on taxpayer money argument. Some one will come along and ask you which tax bracket are you paying this year.....do you really want to go there? -
vicki:
Don't need to siam lah.........
Better siam first. :siam:
everyone got different opinion mah.... :evil:
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Regarding the discussion on full school, as a full school, the primary school and the secondary school is 1 school. The same principal would mean that the school direction for both the primary and secondary will be set by the same person and the principal will lead both the primary and secondary students for assembly together every morning/ school function etc. The decision made by the principal will also be for the good of both the primary and secondary students.
I suppose if CHIJ Toa Payoh decide to convert to a full school, then yes, the secondary students should also be accorded the same benefits to go to CHIJ Toa Payoh primary school (but it will be from the year it is converted to full school). Think it happen before (not too sure about that), but the other way round - very long ago, NYPS and NYGH was a full school, but now, they are not- so old girls from NYGH still enjoy the benefits if they were from the full school era, but not the newer batch of NYGH girls. -
verykiasu2010:
I have observed the registration trend of the various phases since the late 90s.....phase 1 takes up main bulk of the places most of the time....alumni does not form a big portion, and places running out after phase 2A is usualy ACS only, no one else, except last few years CHS alumni started to crowd out the later phases --- BUT this is not because suddenly more alumni started to send kids to the schools -- this is because the school reduces the intake in order to switch to 100% single session / or in the process of converting to single session[/quote]3boys,
Ok. Let me try to explain.dorisp:
[quote=\"mum_sugoku\"]
Er.. actually, except phase 1, there's a cap on every phases--including 2A. Just so happened that so far, the quota for P2A had never been filled up (ie no. of applicants under 2A were always < places allocated for 2A) so whoever applied under this phase had been successful.
Unless my understanding is wrong, the current system works this way:
Say a school has 300 places for Pri 1.
Example 1:
Phase 1 took 80 places.
Phase 2A1 took 60 places.
Phase 2A2 took 100 places.
We now have 300 - (80+60+100) = 60 places left to be divided evenly between P2B and P2C so P2B gets 30 and P2C gets 30.
Example 2:
Phase 1 took 80 places.
Phase 2A1 took 80 places.
Phase 2A2 took 160 places.
At end of P2A2, there are already 320 applicants so 80 from Phase 1 and 80 from Phase 2A1 will be registered but the 160 from Phase 2A2 will have to go through balloting for the remaining 300 - (80+80) = 140 places and this balloting will go according to distance priority.
For school in Example 2, since there is no cap for Phase 2A (be it P2A1 or P2A2) and all places are taken up by end of P2A2, there will no longer be any places left for Phase 2B and Phase 2C.
This is why some are suggesting for a cap for P2A to allow at least some or more places for subsequent Phases such as P2B and P2C.
This is my first time illustrating this system so please help to correct me if there were any incorrect info. Thanks.
On verykiasu2010's comment - \"BUT this is not because suddenly more alumni started to send kids to the schools -- this is because the school reduces the intake in order to switch to 100% single session / or in the process of converting to single session\" - i don't think its nonsense!
As long as a school converts from two (AM and PM) to single session, it is almost certain, the intake will be affected. Realistically, this does affect.
Capped on Alumni - i agree. But there are other factors that may affect the number of vacancies too. -
vicki:
I stated clearly \"in my days\" those things happened and that is the reason why I think makes the difference in terms of cohesiveness of the school and effort to integrate and interact Pri and Sec school section. And that is also why I feel it is fair that CHS is considered full school.
Ok - lets continue with this discussion.vratenza:
you chose to ignore my most pertinent point, and if you cannot see beyond this, I have no more to add..really....
\"the same school management committee and during my days, I remembered myself helping out in the primary school's sport's day, excursions and such. There are mentoring programs for the older secondary school students to help the younger primary section students.
It is one big family.\"
Same school mgmt comm? Not difficult wat - just combine 2 groups to report under one P.
Help out primary school areas - not difficult wat? If there is only one Principal - he can ask his students to do it.
So the underlying problem is BECAUSE there are 2 Principals - each therefore does not have absolute authority over both areas. However, if one ask the other to help - it will surely be rendered (in those rare occassion). So is it a simplistic thing to say - remove one P and therefore it is a Full School?
My boy is in the primary section of a FULL SCHOOL now and No, i dont see the secondary students helping out much. Recess time? the P5 guides. Excursion? PVs/ PSG helps out.
So - back to my - EXACTLY what constitutes a FULL SCHOOL n what doesnt? Is it a 2 P vs 1 P issue?
So No - im not avoiding your line of thought - i just want to know what differentiates CHS/St Nics with CHIJ TP?
If it did not occur for your son, I also cannot explain because I am not the FULL SCHOOL's P or it's management committee. Each school has their own culture and ways, that brings us back to debunk Mr Hean's assertion that all schools are same.
Nobody can tell you what differentiates between CHS/St Nics vs CHIJ TP unless they have children in both of them to compare.
Honestly, I'm just glad I am on this side of fence with the greener grass. -
My above post is just explaining the difference between full school and non-full school from what I know. My stand on the topic is that I can see that alumni connection is important like what many had said, but I also feel that there should be a cap ie. 1/3 of the remaining places after phase 1?
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vratenza:
I stated clearly \"in my days\" those things happened and that is the reason why I think makes the difference in terms of cohesiveness of the school and effort to integrate and interact Pri and Sec school section. And that is also why I feel it is fair that CHS is considered full school.
Ok - lets continue with this discussion.vicki:
[quote=\"vratenza\"]
you chose to ignore my most pertinent point, and if you cannot see beyond this, I have no more to add..really....
\"the same school management committee and during my days, I remembered myself helping out in the primary school's sport's day, excursions and such. There are mentoring programs for the older secondary school students to help the younger primary section students.
It is one big family.\"
Same school mgmt comm? Not difficult wat - just combine 2 groups to report under one P.
Help out primary school areas - not difficult wat? If there is only one Principal - he can ask his students to do it.
So the underlying problem is BECAUSE there are 2 Principals - each therefore does not have absolute authority over both areas. However, if one ask the other to help - it will surely be rendered (in those rare occassion). So is it a simplistic thing to say - remove one P and therefore it is a Full School?
My boy is in the primary section of a FULL SCHOOL now and No, i dont see the secondary students helping out much. Recess time? the P5 guides. Excursion? PVs/ PSG helps out.
So - back to my - EXACTLY what constitutes a FULL SCHOOL n what doesnt? Is it a 2 P vs 1 P issue?
So No - im not avoiding your line of thought - i just want to know what differentiates CHS/St Nics with CHIJ TP?
If it did not occur for your son, I also cannot explain because I am not the FULL SCHOOL's P or it's management committee. Each school has their own culture and ways, that brings us back to debunk Mr Hean's assertion that all schools are same.
Nobody can tell you what differentiates between CHS/St Nics vs CHIJ TP unless they have children in both of them to compare.
Honestly, I'm just glad I am on this side of fence with the greener grass.[/quote]Yup - you are on the right side of fence with the greener grass...
I am too - if current procedures remain.
So, why am i fighting for the 'under priviledged' for what i feel is the 'common good'?
:? I must be :siao:
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