City Harvest's founder Kong Hee & 4 others arrested/charged

[kwcllf]

Quintessential Mum:

6. Kill off competition

CHC has tremendous economic moat that kills off competition. In the video “The 10 Laws of The Harvest”, the Pastor cited Law #5 “Your Seed must be planted in Good Ground” which is an effective weapon in killing off his competition – the smaller churches. Many Christians feel that they ought to donate to the needy, smaller churches rather than rich mega-churches like CHC. The Pastor’s argument is that you do not get good returns like 100-fold in the small churches. You have to donate to mega-churches to maximize returns on your tithe because they have a track record (rich church members). In other words, the seed is not planted in good ground when you donate to the small churches. In his own words, ”I don’t always give to the neediest but to the ground that will give the greatest yield”. To illustrate his point, he used an analogy on weak banks and strong banks. You do not deposit your money in a weak bank because it desperately needs fresh funds to survive. You deposit your money in a strong bank which invests your money wisely and yields good returns.

Big banks can also fail as have been witnessed many times in the recent past. Why?????........................GREED of course!

[N.029275Lo]

I am unabashed ex CHC member who stands with Pastor Kong Hee. So if you are really upset with them, don't read what I have to post. I see that many parents here are reasonable and have a right to be worried and upset. I understand but I guess every story has two sides to it.


I am not here to change anyone's thinking but just want to share some youtube videos on how Crossover project has impacted lives and how secular Christian artists can impact the world through what they do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2pJySvrdsQ&feature=relmfu

http://www.scoop.it/t/crossover/

[Dreamaurora]

cel-tang:

Way2GO:

[quote=\"cel-tang\"]

Not too sure but he did raise some interesting points. I do not think the govt is anti any religion but I do think they will get uncomfortable if any religious group seems too big. And unlike other countries, where different newspapers report the news from different viewpoints, in Singapore we only have one main newspaper and it seems to report things from a certain point of view to drive home certain points.

That is what I am not too comfortable with.

So for now, I am reading through what is written outside of the newspapers as well to try to get a more balanced viewpoint.

ur view on msm is shared by many who r better informed, more widely read.
when LKY was in d opposition, he argued against d press being used as a tool to influence d general public;
one of d first thing he did when PAP came into power was to take control over d press.
Dat is to be expected. Any party in power wld try to influence/control msm.

It did crossed my mind whether KH has built a cult personality n CHC has grown too big for his own good.
It seems to be dat way, d cult culture, fr d way many of his followers hv responded to dis crisis. Just my viewpoint. Or perhaps they r just showing solidarity behind their founder.

On d main thrust of Mohd's article, if true, then d latest press release fr CHC wld add credence to it.
Thus my question in my earlier posts, \"wat audience r d leaders playing too?\"
They r playing with fire, its a high stake dangerous game, n they cannot win against dis govt.
Archbishop Gregory Yong came out to support d 'Marxists' when it was brought out into d open.
d Catholics numbers r much larger than CHC's 33,000.
He buckled under pressure.

I would like to say that whatever ruling party we have, we should have the right of free press. When the press is controlled in such a way, we as Singaporeans do not really think about an issue from different angles. We just swallow all that we read as the truth without thinking that every article written is not written merely about the facts but it is written to push a certain agenda or written in a certain slant. The Mohd facebook article is also written with a certain agenda. However, it provides differing points of view. In most countries, people would buy several newspapers to get differing viewpoints but here we only have one from the ST and that is our govt's view on things.

Not to say I am anti govt but I find they are too controlling on how we think.

In this case, I am not for or against Pastor Kong, but I do feel the anger that rises up against him is a little uncalled for especially when the people who are so angry are ones that are not even in his church and have not given to the project. They have not solicited funds from the public. Yet the people who are most upset are people who do not know them and have not given.

I think this article expresses how I feel:
http://therealsingapore.com/content/most-sensible-and-balanced-article-so-far-kong-hee-saga[/quote]That was a well written article and there are good comments accompanying it too,

Honestly, IMO, I cannot say that people outside the church will not be affected. For such a high profile figure such as Kong Hee, his actions (and his church's) will be followed very closely and will affect public perception of Christian community in general. Though the action of others may not affect me directly, it may still affect me indirectly. Let's take for example. I am a male teacher. Then let's say the news reported a male teacher was arrested for sexual molestation of his students. Yes, technically the ones affected are the arrested teacher's students. But because of that some parents may be more wary sending their kids to male teachers for fear that the same incident may repeat again. And indirectly, my livelihood will be affected as well.

So yes, as a Christian, I cannot pretend that this does not affect me. There will be people, believers and non believers, who will raise this issue with me. And I don't think 'bo chup' will be the right response to this. So I will need to have a clear opinion on this and to make sure that I portray a good Christian image in my response to it. Like it or not, this case has thrown the spotlight on Christian community. Even the Christian community seems to be divided on this issue. Our actions and our responses to this case will be watched closely as well.

[Dreamaurora]

This is for those who do not understand what the case is all about. Taken from hardwarezone forum (not my writing).


{
wah lau

what’s so hard to understand

to chc brothers and sisters, allow me to illustrate using another setting

There is a temple, inside the temple ish a donation box.
It ish Monk Renyi’s job to go around all the temples and keep an eye on the donation box.
Every week, roughly the box will get $500 of donations without fail.

Monk Renyi only checks the box at the end of the week. He knows the box will have $500 without fail.

Monk Renyi engages Ah Kong to keep an eye on the box so that noone can steal it. Ah Kong does the job.

Then one day, Ah Kong wonders what a waste to leave $500 in the box until end of the week. So Ah Kong decides to take the money out and do something with it. Ah Kong buys tissue paper to sell and earns an extra profit of $50. Ah Kong puts back the $500 before Monk RenYi notices. Ah Kong now has an extra $50 allowance. Out of guilt, Ah Kong donates 10% of the profit back to temple (not into box). Monk RenYi never noticed anything amiss and continues to collect the $500 from box every week.

Few months down the road, Ah Kong gets bored. Ah Kong begins to think of ways of making making temple more well known. Ah Kong decides to engage this getai singer Sambal Ho to perform outside temple. He thinks that by doing so, it draws crowd to the temple and people will come in to visit and the money in the donation box will also increase.

In order to visualise his plan, Ah Kong decides to take a risk. He needs to package Sambal Ho into someone with star quality first before she can reach out to attract more temple visitors. All these needed money. Ah Kong’s previous earnings were not enough to cover. Ah Kong needs at least $400. He thought to himself if Sambal Ho suceeds, when the temple visitors increase, the donations will also increase, slowly covering the $400.

So Ah Kong hatches a plan, takes the $400 from the box. Ah Kong later tells RenYi that he took the $400 money to invest in some temple equipment as they needed repair. Monk RenYi says "hokay". The following week, Ah Kong repeats the same story and takes $500 instead. As the monk ish blur, he thought Ah Kong meant $500 was the right amount he took from the box this week instead of last’s, so he said "hokay" again.

So Ah Kong got $400 + $500 = $900

Ah Kong then used $400 on Sambal Ho. Sambal Ho then performed getai outside this particular temple. But no matter how she sang and danced, the temple visitors did not increase and so did the donation box. Ah Kong’s plan had failed.

Ah Kong then went back to tell RenYi that he bought the equipment for $500 from the company but later the company wanted it back as they had another deal to honour and lack 1 equipment and they paid him back $500, which he returned back to Monk RenYi. Monk RenYi did not notice anything amiss.

Ah Kong then went back to tissue paper business trick to earn that $50 and slowly puts back to patch up the $400 he took. (not into box)


Then one day out of the blue Monk Renyi calls up the equipment company to ask if they have stock for what they wanted last time. Company said there was no order. Monk Renyi checked here and there and smelled something fishy. He went back to check and found out accounts for donation from box was missing $400. He found donation from temple staff increased by $400. Overall donation tally but donation from box clearly decreased…

now tell me, did Ah Kong do no wrong? take money, patch money no wrong meh
sorry for grandmother story
}

[WeiHan]

Dreamaurora:

This is for those who do not understand what the case is all about. Taken from hardwarezone forum (not my writing).


{
wah lau

what's so hard to understand

to chc brothers and sisters, allow me to illustrate using another setting

There is a temple, inside the temple ish a donation box.
It ish Monk Renyi's job to go around all the temples and keep an eye on the donation box.
Every week, roughly the box will get $500 of donations without fail.

Monk Renyi only checks the box at the end of the week. He knows the box will have $500 without fail.

Monk Renyi engages Ah Kong to keep an eye on the box so that noone can steal it. Ah Kong does the job.

Then one day, Ah Kong wonders what a waste to leave $500 in the box until end of the week. So Ah Kong decides to take the money out and do something with it. Ah Kong buys tissue paper to sell and earns an extra profit of $50. Ah Kong puts back the $500 before Monk RenYi notices. Ah Kong now has an extra $50 allowance. Out of guilt, Ah Kong donates 10% of the profit back to temple (not into box). Monk RenYi never noticed anything amiss and continues to collect the $500 from box every week.

Few months down the road, Ah Kong gets bored. Ah Kong begins to think of ways of making making temple more well known. Ah Kong decides to engage this getai singer Sambal Ho to perform outside temple. He thinks that by doing so, it draws crowd to the temple and people will come in to visit and the money in the donation box will also increase.

In order to visualise his plan, Ah Kong decides to take a risk. He needs to package Sambal Ho into someone with star quality first before she can reach out to attract more temple visitors. All these needed money. Ah Kong's previous earnings were not enough to cover. Ah Kong needs at least $400. He thought to himself if Sambal Ho suceeds, when the temple visitors increase, the donations will also increase, slowly covering the $400.

So Ah Kong hatches a plan, takes the $400 from the box. Ah Kong later tells RenYi that he took the $400 money to invest in some temple equipment as they needed repair. Monk RenYi says \"hokay\". The following week, Ah Kong repeats the same story and takes $500 instead. As the monk ish blur, he thought Ah Kong meant $500 was the right amount he took from the box this week instead of last's, so he said \"hokay\" again.

So Ah Kong got $400 + $500 = $900

Ah Kong then used $400 on Sambal Ho. Sambal Ho then performed getai outside this particular temple. But no matter how she sang and danced, the temple visitors did not increase and so did the donation box. Ah Kong's plan had failed.

Ah Kong then went back to tell RenYi that he bought the equipment for $500 from the company but later the company wanted it back as they had another deal to honour and lack 1 equipment and they paid him back $500, which he returned back to Monk RenYi. Monk RenYi did not notice anything amiss.

Ah Kong then went back to tissue paper business trick to earn that $50 and slowly puts back to patch up the $400 he took. (not into box)


Then one day out of the blue Monk Renyi calls up the equipment company to ask if they have stock for what they wanted last time. Company said there was no order. Monk Renyi checked here and there and smelled something fishy. He went back to check and found out accounts for donation from box was missing $400. He found donation from temple staff increased by $400. Overall donation tally but donation from box clearly decreased..

now tell me, did Ah Kong do no wrong? take money, patch money no wrong meh
sorry for grandmother story
}

But even if Sambal Ho succeed in attracting more contribution, they are new contribution afterall and cannot be considered money earned to patch up the money previously taken.

[phtthp]

quote:

Ah Kong then used $400 on Sambal Ho. Sambal Ho then performed getai outside this particular temple. But no matter how she sang and danced,the temple visitors did not increase and so did the donation box. Ah Kong's plan had failed.

initially, temple visitors curious ... so went to watch Sambal Ho sing, dance, perform.

But sadly, Sambal Ho perhaps no inherent talent !
Inspite of wearing revealing low cut dress & shaking her bum many times, temple visitors got sick & tired of watching her same old \"stunt\". After a while, visitors stopped visiting temple & donations ceased. Then Ah Kong had to crack his head devise another method to bring in temple earnings.

[corneyAmber]

As a parent, I am also worried about the wrong external influence, so I did a reality check with my 9+ year old.


Me: Girl, are you aware of the CHC scandal?
Girl: Yes I know a little
Me: It is about a pastor using the church funds to finance some singing career of his wife, do you think it is ok?
Girl: Of course not!!
Me: Why do you think it is not ok? Btw, where did you find out about this case?
Girl: I read it on AsiaOne. Of course not ok, no law and order. 无法无天。。
Me: Err… Why do you say no law and order?
Girl: They run a church and they can do such disrespectful things…
Me: Why disrespectful?
Girl: This is the church’s money and they are "stealing" the money for the singing career of a pastor’s wife. See? No respect for the church members.
Me: Ok… If you are attending this church what will you do?
Girl: I will quit this church, because I do not want to be identified with their wrong-doing which I do not agree. Later, I get bad-mouth for nothing as their member especially after being cheated by them.
Me: Orh…but what if the pastor is very nice to you, and all the people involved in the case know you and treat you very well and you see them every Sunday?
Girl: If I know them, I will be kinder and talk to them about repentence, not to repeat this wrongful act. If I do not know them, I will just walk off from the church.
Me: chuckled (She always makes me laugh with her innocence)

This is from a child’s perception of the case.

[Lilac66]

phtthp:

quote:

Ah Kong then used $400 on Sambal Ho. Sambal Ho then performed getai outside this particular temple. But no matter how she sang and danced,the temple visitors did not increase and so did the donation box. Ah Kong's plan had failed.

initially, temple visitors curious ... so went to watch Sambal Ho sing, dance, perform.

But sadly, Sambal Ho perhaps no inherent talent !
Inspite of wearing revealing low cut dress & shaking her bum many times, temple visitors got sick & tired of watching her same old \"stunt\". After a while, visitors stopped visiting temple & donations ceased. Then Ah Kong had to crack his head devise another method to bring in temple earnings.

:rotflmao: She must be thinking , Aiya all my shaking wasted.

[cirruslogic]

MMM:

Catholic is very clear since they worship Mary which the Christians don't.

Catholics do not worship Mary! Saying that is blasphemy!
The word prayer means \"a solemn request for help or expression of thanks addressed to God or a heavenly creature\"
Catholics worship God as the one Supreme Being.
Mary is not God. Hence Catholics do not worship Mary!
Jesus Christ is God and specifically, is one of the three Persons in one God. Catholics do communicate with Mary and Canonised Saints. When we say pray to Mary and the Saints it is communicating with them or talking to them.
Get it?

[looking4Tutor]

From TODAYonline - http://www.todayonline.com/PDFViewer/PDF/20120629/2906HNP006.pdf

Speaking on behalf of the church
board, Mr Bobby Chaw, the pastor in
charge of missions, said the church
was “surprised” that the COC suspended eight of its members without
prior notice, given that CHC had been
co-operating with the COC.
He revealed that the church had
taken steps, over the past two years, to
comply with the Ministry of Community Development, Youth and Sports’ code
of governance. This included replacing
half of its board with new members and
conducting a full internal audit.
Mr Chaw, however, expressed disappointment with “some of the media’s coverage so far, particularly in
relation to the COC inquiry”.
He said: “In some instances, they
seem to have pre-judged us. We will be
dealing with this in due course.

Is this so-called pastor bobby trying to embark on a mission to repeat the infamous Durai's defamation trial. He should spend more time in the mission fields doing what is right in the eyes of all the god and goddess.