Asia spending billions on tutors: study

[janet88]

Nebbermind:

Sometimes they may perform better coz they r not directly under MOE's payroll and not required to do those non-academic related stuff.


Have a friend who quitted and re-joined a school...not sure what is the title but he just go and teach, no CCA, no non-academic activities....he's very happy with the arrangement.

There are a handful who do not sent for training at NIE. For eg, if the person didn't get a pass in Eng...but this friend of mine is ok with it since he doesn't have to attend endless meetings and get to coach his kids in their school work.

[corneyAmber]

Busymom:

Limlim


This is what you may have overlooked.

ksi:

This is only one area, there could be more and Sun_2010 has mentioned about materials designed which should rightfully belong to the school. Also, how is MOE or school going to track if a teacher is teaching their own students or not? It is again an issue of span of control. In any case, this moonlight issue in the commercial world is clearly spelt out in the hiring contract for most large companies with protection over intellectual property rights and their customer base.

Just to clarify, I am writing this with reference to tuition centres because we were comparing school versus tuition centre in moonlighting scenario, not about sharing across schools when Sun_2010 shared about the materials. In line with what limlim has mentioned, when used in tuition centres, it is for personal gains. So our understanding has been consistent.

[limlim]

oxyleo:

WWIII leh. You can run, but you can't hide!

I wanna take a break and abandon post liao.. if my (guard)post doesn't come under direct fire (worst.. nuclear strike).. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

[iFirefly]

When I first joined KSP last year, I simply loved this forum... :love:


I remember the first 2 threads I participated in were ''2011 DSA'' and ''2011 PSLE Discussion & Strategy'' threads.. Never once had I come across any 'MOE/teacher-bashing' or 'tutor-glorifying' remarks.. The 2011 PSLE parents discussed (most of the time, with lots of humour), encouraged and supported each other in our DSs/DDs' DSA/PSLE journey.. Ex-PSLE parents (ksp2010, strparent, jtoh, intermezzo, to name a few..) also joined in to give us advice & support.. How I treasure those fond memories.. :grphug:

VSK2010 started a ''2012 PSLE Discussion & Strategy\" thread, even before 2011 PSLE ended, with the good intention to allow the 2012 PSLE parents to discuss & share, and give each other support & encouragement during the tough period of PSLE preparation (for their kids).. However, the thread has turned out to be... :sad:

I was shocked to read (in another thread) that a parent actually told her kid not to listen to his school Math teacher (who was either not teaching, or teaching the wrong things), but to follow his private Math tutor's methods in solving Math problems.. :shock:

Wonder how the kid will respect his school teachers, if the parents keep slamming that their school teachers are no good, lousy, lazy, giving them loads of other school's exam papers to do, instead of revising with topical papers (which the private tutors are doing).. :skeptical:

I feel that most kids handle topical test papers well, but they stumble if they have to do the full paper within a stipulated time (all topics coming together, no time to finish paper, poor time-management etc).. Hence, the school teachers are doing the RIGHT thing to let the kids practise with other schools' exam papers.. What better way to prepare the kids for PSLE than to give them a taste of the ''real'' thing.. :roll:

I remember my DS' teachers gave them lots of other schools' exam papers to do in the final months of PSLE prpearation last year.. I loved it, as I didn't buy any for DS to do.. DS loved it too and would look forward to his teachers giving him more, especially over the weekends.. And we parents also posted our questions and discussed the answers in the ''2011 PSLE'' thread, whenever we needed clarification (sometimes, the model answers given were wrong) or had doubts on any topics/issues..

Well.. those were the days.. where have they gone..

[limlim]

verykiasu2010:

janet_lee88:

[quote=\"cherryc\"]Are all teachers NIE trained before they teach in schools? I have seen teachers who taught for one semester and then the school announced that they are leaving for NIE for professional training so they are not certified teachers yet ?

Teachers are not NIE trained when they start teaching in schools...they are untrained teachers until the principals decide whether they deserve that chance. Some of these untrained teachers may never get that NIE training. This was what I heard from a reliable source :censored:

there you go spouting nonsense and rubbish again

http://www.moe.gov.sg/careers/teach/career-info/training/[/quote]Appreciate more kindness in words..

Just post the MOE link, and clarify will do.

Also, she share her personal experience.

Are you on watch 24/7 at all schools to discredit her as such?

It may be isolated case where certain school \"may\" not have followed MOE directives. who knows?

Reader can judge from what you shared, no need to verbally abuse anyone who posts or share their experience.

I may have doubts too over what she wrote, as it seems to different from what I'm aware from MOE official guide. But either I'll clarify or ask again, or just leave it as it is. No need to \"Nuclear\" bomb her post and attempt total annihilation..

[schweppes]

Nebbermind:

Sometimes they may perform better coz they r not directly under MOE's payroll and not required to do those non-academic related stuff.


Have a friend who quitted and re-joined a school...not sure what is the title but he just go and teach, no CCA, no non-academic activities....he's very happy with the arrangement.

i thot adjunct teachers are also under MOE's payroll, no? :scratchhead:

If not mistaken, as an adjunct, there is virtually no career prospects, no performance & annual bonus, no medical/dental benefits and probably not paid during the school hols.

Trade off is that there is minimal admin duties and no CCA duties. So, there are pros and cons. Still, the adjunct teacher's role is also important as it plays a supportive role to the school teachers.

Must also qualify that not all adjunct teachers are untrained NIE teachers. Some may be retired teachers or some NIE-trained teachers quitting their full time teaching jobs, preferably to work part-time.

[Chenonceau]

janet_lee88:

Nebbermind:

Sometimes they may perform better coz they r not directly under MOE's payroll and not required to do those non-academic related stuff.


Have a friend who quitted and re-joined a school...not sure what is the title but he just go and teach, no CCA, no non-academic activities....he's very happy with the arrangement.

There are a handful who do not sent for training at NIE. For eg, if the person didn't get a pass in Eng...but this friend of mine is ok with it since he doesn't have to attend endless meetings and get to coach his kids in their school work.

So... he can be adjunct forever... and be untrained? But still AutumnBronze has a good point. Some trained teachers are awful. Some untrained ones are wonderful... so...

[limlim]

autumnbronze:

This is an open forum, lest someone comes in and blasts me for my post.

I appreciate many of your sharing..

I'm sure others do too..

As for truncating.. it is not to \"read what we chose to read\".. but to make the post shorter and more readable as the main point of contention are singled out.

Just to clarify.

I guess, there is misunderstanding on the intention of truncating posts.

Properly we see things different.. I has a habit to reduce \"clutter\" (doesn't mean the points are not valid, just not relevant to the current \"focus\").

Again.. we don't argue for the sake of argument.. or to \"win\".. there has to be common understanding on this..

I really have to highlight again.. on the rational behind truncating posts.....

Thanks.....

And I do read and appreciate some things you mentioned and some of the comments you made. and I read your post/comments in full. It is only respect for the writer to read their post in full.. althou I do not/may not quote \"In Full\". I only reply after reading the full post.

[BeContented]

autumnbronze:

....
On a separate note, it is becoming very pain(ful) to read the postings here. And I apologize first now if this is going to be harsh. But I will be speaking from my heart. I am doubting the extent of the 'pain' that those
have gone through. The alternative camp here has only tried to seek to clarify and provide, well, an alternative view. For those who claim that we are not civilized in our postings, well my FIL always admonishes my son that \"remember boy, for one finger pointing at others, there are four fingers pointing back at you\".

Hi Autumnbronze, what you have mentioned gel with my feelings too. It was a joy to read most threads in KSP in the past (even tho I have only joined less that 2 years, but the 'pain' is getting a little overbearing for me too.

For myself, if I have adopted an unfriendly tone, I have explained why in
my previous post. However, seems to me that limlim's camp time and again take offense in what the alternative group have to say and choose to
read what they want to read, to the point of truncating certain statements in their replies. The latest posts that I have just read, the subtle or not so
subtle nuances towards the alternative group shocked me. Now who is stoking the fire huh?? Haiz, it's so clear that ONLY their views hold water, only THEY have experienced the pain, ONLY they are victims of bad teachers. Well, life is full of choices!!! You make your life out the way you
want it to be. Not happy with the sch, nothing being done by MOE or the sch after feedback, then transfer out if you want immediate changes to be
put in effect, as someone aptly put it.
.....
I have personally gone through so much PAIN in life during my younger days that which has shaped me the way I am now. I have my PRIORITIES in check. and I choose to see the good in life. Nothing wrong in that. Perhaps that's why I am at peace with myself.
Good for you :love:

I feel for you. I feel for you because there is so much bitterness in your
posts. And as someone put it in another thread, this is only Pri education.
......
Bitterness & a little ugly sometimes..... :sad:

This is an open forum, lest someone comes in and blasts me for my post.
Please bear that in mind. And I am certainly not off topic. There are underlying messages. But then again, perhaps one is in too much pain to read them. If you do not agree with me, I am fine with that. If you choose to respond to this post. I won't be replying. It's my last in here. So you can say \"good riddance to this poster\" under your breath or if
it makes you feel better, aloud then.

Where are the mods anyway??? Seriously CKS, you should reinstate those
who have 'resigned' from the posts because when they were around, the forum was so much more civil. But I guess views from ole timers like me don't matter much anymore .....

Sorry to hear that you have decided to stop replying cos' I do think your posts have often provide a very balanced view....like some others. But guess I kinda understand how you feel cos' I too, feeling tired. Dun think I will last much longer either.....
Peace within ourselves :love:

[Chenonceau]

BeContented:

Hi Chen,
You sure you are not directing at me :evil: :evil:

Hmmmm... missed this. No I was not directing it at you. I was just trying to ensure that not all UNcontented people get tarred with the same brush.

BeContented:

You might be a perfectionist and cannot accept a 2nd best.....I CAN. If one try their best, clear, pass, over. Move on.

BUT... are you directing this at me? If you are... here is my response... DS was 2nd in class last year and I was over the moon. He was 2nd last in Chinese at CA1 this year and I was quite happy that he didn't fail because many did.

This said, I am still a perfectionist. I want to do things well. I wouldn't release a report that I though was sub-par... nor put out a book without taking care that it was the highest quality I can produce. Nothing wrong with being perfectionist... and I should not be dissed for it.

BeContented:

Am not asking people to be contented and dun care, but to relook and adjust some of their expectations.

This is a good clarification.

BeContented:

It's painful tho to listen to people complaining about being unable to buy new/luxury car, ranting over 5-10 mins of waiting time for bus/MRT... people from high income/bigger units complain about the peanut$ and getting less than others.

So your posts ridiculing people for not being contented only refer to such people is it? Those who wanna buy luxury cars and won't wait 5-10 minutes? ? That's again a good clarification.

Even then, it could be that for some people, 5-10 minutes has serious implications. A cleaner was late and his already small salary was docked. Those in bigger flats may have recently been retrenched? I knew a banker earning $15,000 one day and out of job the next. It was overnight.

BeContented:

True, I am blessed that my kids are doing well....but does that mean that I have a perfectly blessed journey with zero pain...as implied by some? Not the same type of pain? Ohhhh, my pain not as painful as yours.....

I'm not sure I want to descend into comparing whose life is more painful. My life is fine, I assure you. I have pulled us all out of the depths. DS is not top of the top, but I am sanguine enough to have left him Home Alone during his PSLE year whilst I went on 3 different overseas trips this year.

Indeed, I am perhaps more bochap than even you because I did not apply for DSA. DS does a sport that exposes him to a coach from RI. This coach loves my son and sees great potential in him for the sport. I could have chosen to DSA, and I think we would have stood a good chance... but I did not. Partly, I want DS to know that he has no safety net. Partly, I was busy.

Your son is DSA-ing?

But enough about me and you... I am now coaching a mother whose child fails 4 subjects. There is a lot of pain there, I can tell you. If people like you and I (with reasonably successful kids) have no empathy for people like that, and sit out our keyboards to joke and poke sarcastic fun at people like HER for be UNcontented, then the world is a sad sad place.

But I think you have clarified that your scorn and ridicule are not directed at Mothers like her. So I guess we are somewhat in agreement.

BeContented:

I know of 1 parent, she has always compared her gal with my DD....their gap widen over the years and she increased her gal's tuition to 7 per week (4 subjects). Her comparing and complaints are still on-going and these are the types of pain I will ignore. But then again, all of us will feel that our pain are geniune and should not be ignored/dismissed.

I have friends like this too. They compare their kids with mine. However, I don't judge them. I try and help them instead.

BeContented:

As mentioned before, if the particular sch sets exam that are too difficult, stay or get out -- it's a choice.

Whilst I really don't think this comment is directed at me personally... Why should I take DS out of a school that sets tough exams (away from all his friends and against his will and during his PSLE year) when clearly, he CAN be 2nd in class (and 16th in the level) when given the correct materials to read (and NO tuition)? Why should I short-change him when he CAN cope... and if he CANNOT cope, it was because his Teachers teach insufficiently and his textbooks are lousy?

Now... before I am misunderstood as bashing Teachers... let me recall an earlier post.

Chenonceau:

Teachers indeed don't teach sufficiently. The question is why they don't. It cannot be that all teachers are bad. If indeed, all teachers don't teach sufficiently THEN logic dictates that it CANNOT BE the fault of Teachers.

Why so? Statistically, it is very improbable to find a whole population of Teachers who are lazy and aim to profiteer. Quality and ethical frameworks of Teachers, like in any large population left UNregulated, will fall on a bell curve. However, IF facilitating and regulatory mechanisms are not in place to help this bell curve of Teachers teach, the WHOLE bell curve falls below par... and it ISN'T the fault of Teachers.