City Harvest's founder Kong Hee & 4 others arrested/charged

[Way2GO]

Daddy

Conspiracy theory? Interesting....

SilentHermit:

From a bigger picture, I just see some things that appeared to be creative writing/handling, not very forth coming and sounds like speaking with hidden agenda.
.........................
The result of the cases are not out yet, but based on the above 3 incidents, are we able to conclude what kind of people/group of people are we dealing with?

SH

I don't hv enuf to say its a conspiracy.
Wat caught my attention was one of d chief protagonists in FOP, call for Christians to unite behind KH & gang, links with American Evangelism, Seven Mountains Theology - Apostle Lawrence Khong.
Fascinating.... d connection.

[Daddy D]

phtthp:

Daddy

Conspiracy theory? Interesting....

don't understand ... what conspiracy is involved ?
can elaborate ?

what is the Plot about ? who are the conspirators ?
their objective / target ?

Dun quote me \"out of context\" leh...
Dun understand then refer to the link provided by Way2GO
:siam:

[WeiHan]

Dreamaurora:

WeiHan:

[quote=\"Daddy D\"]http://www.festivalofpraise.org.sg/


Read that this annual Christian event has to be cancelled due to CHC...
The power of CHC... :shock:

If the so-call\"mainstream christian\", think that their teaching is at odd with the genuine words of Jesus, then I think there must be the majority of christians in singapore following the wrong teaching such that the so-call \"mainstream\" may be the minority instead.

I will not be suprised that there will come one day that these wrong teachings are accepted widely because a lot of people find them attractive. The churches that preach these wrong teachings continue to grow and attract big congregration, often much more so than the traditional churches. For one of us who do not believe in these teachings, there are probably 2 or 3 more who do. It is a worrying trend and God warned us that the gate of Heaven is narrow indeed.

It is also happening to other religions. A friend of mine who practices Tibetan Buddhism laments the state of Buddhism in Singapore. Instead of studying and applying Buddha's teachings in their lives, people are more concerned with going to temples with all the deities to pray for fortune or have their fortunes told.[/quote]
But you see, it is human nature to like prosperity etc....There is actually nothing wrong with that. the case with Buddhism, Taoism etc... is different with the likes of CHC. For those cases, people weren't actively taught (by an extremely organised institutions) that Buddha's teachings are for praying for wealth etc..People usually go to the temple themselves and thought to themselves that it is the case. Of course, there are false teachers giving false teachings that take advantage of the students but I'll say, for the case of Buddhism, for every 4 good teachers that teach genuine Dharma, there is only one evil teacher that try to exploit the teachings for personal gain. Most of the proper institutions for Buddha's teachings are still the largest Buddhist institutions, false teachings have not yet been able to outsize genuine yet. However, for christianity, I fear the inversion has already been crossed.

[Ribena48]

I didnt bother to read into details about this case except the initial reports. Think better put them to jail. And because it involves religion so it is even more serious. Don’t always think when you make a mistake, you can pray and ask for forgiveness from your religion God and hope that’s it.

Look at the specific case and discuss. Religion is a sensitive topic so better avoidd bringing other religion into the discussion.

[blessed777]

Ribena48:

I didnt bother to read into details about this case except the initial reports. Think better put them to jail. And because it involves religion so it is even more serious. Don't always think when you make a mistake, you can pray and ask for forgiveness from your religion God and hope that's it.

Look at the specific case and discuss. Religion is a sensitive topic so better avoidd bringing other religion into the discussion.

I agree that religion is a sensitive topic, to discuss religion among people with different faith is prone to misunderstanding and to critisize other religion is even worse. I hope ppl would remind themselve that those who are being charged are the 5 CHC leaders, not Christian community, if they are proven quilty they should serve their sentences. Pls do not critisize each other religion.

[Dreamaurora]

blessed777:

Ribena48:

I didnt bother to read into details about this case except the initial reports. Think better put them to jail. And because it involves religion so it is even more serious. Don't always think when you make a mistake, you can pray and ask for forgiveness from your religion God and hope that's it.

Look at the specific case and discuss. Religion is a sensitive topic so better avoidd bringing other religion into the discussion.

I agree that religion is a sensitive topic, to discuss religion among people with different faith is prone to misunderstanding and to critisize other religion is even worse. I hope ppl would remind themselve that those who are being charged are the 5 CHC leaders, not Christian community, if they are proven quilty they should serve their sentences. Pls do not critisize each other religion.

It is really quite hard for people not to avoid discussing CHC and Christianity in this case, because well, CHC themselves do not separate Kong Hee and the leaders from the church, as evidenced by the CHC's press release and the FOP cancellation. And also the fact that Kong Hee is justifying his actions because all this is done to do Christian God's work. Various Christian leaders have also voiced their supports and rallying Christians to support them. Like it or not, Christianity is dragged into this case as well.

[Dreamaurora]

SilentHermit:

Dreamaurora:

I do agree that the decision to cancel FOP is a poor one and it reflects badly on CHC and other churches who are participating. We may not know the reason why, but this episode only serves to highlight further that Kong Hee = CHC.


Regarding praying for Kong Hee and CHC, as a Christian we are taught to love our enemies as stated by the Bible. Even if we are not in a position to directly shows any kind act of kindness towards our enemies, the least we can do is to pray for them. In this case, there really is nothing wrong with praying for Kong Hee and the gang. Like what I said earlier in the post, I encouraged every Christian to pray for them. While obviously it is not right to pray that they are innocent and will escape justice, we can still pray for God's wisdom and mercy to be upon them and their families.

However, I fully understand that a lot of non believers and new Christians are puzzled at why so many leaders, including NCCS's head, Lawrence Khong, and Canon Wong are encouraging Christians to unite and pray for Kong Hee and CHC. Some people have asked why we should pray for Kong Hee if he's really blasphemous and guilty. Isn't that like siding with him and admitting he's innocent? I do despise Kong Hee for his blasphemous teaching and I feel he is not fit to be a reverend or pastor, but as a Christian it is not right to deny him prayer and love. Afterall, Jesus did come down to die for us even though we all rejected Him and persecuted Him. I do feel in this aspect church leaders should have been more specific when it comes to asking Christians to pray for Kong Hee. Statements like what is found in FOP's page, can easily be misleading if the proper context is not explained.

Sorry Dream, I think I got mixed up. CHC 1st public statement ask their followers to pray for KH and gang. CHC 2nd statement did not ask their followers to pray or unite or support. FOP statement ask all Christians to Unite & Support.

What really bothers me is not about prayers for someone in need or your enemies, in fact, I believe that prayers are the most effective ways to erase or lessen the animosities between people.

From a bigger picture, I just see some things that appeared to be creative writing/handling, not very forth coming and sounds like speaking with hidden agenda.

Incident 1: - Mr Poon
We now know what Mr Poon has gone through. But back then, you witnessed for yourself what was said to the congregation instead. There were simply 2 pictures, one painted by KH and gang and one known only to Mr Poon himself (and made public only lately). KH's and other executive's versions were not entirely honest, withholding actual information and seems to have been spoken to make themselves look good. Such are the characters now charged and the prosecution have to deal with.

Incident 2: - CHC 2nd statement
http://www.chc.org.sg/_eng/church/CHC-Responds-to-allegations-28-June-2012.php
It started off praising KH and his gang, shown support for them, denied all wrong doing, blame the media for its unfair coverage, then went on to argue that projectcrossover is doing God's work.

If the charges against the gang is wrong and what they are doing is merely God's work (and not wrong also), that means prosecutor is at fault to charge and prosecutor is preventing them from doing God's work.

This is about a government prosecuting individuals for breaching certain laws. The statement seems to suggest that even if it is criminally wrong, what they have done is Godly. And because the statement is issued by a mega church with so many followers, it becomes very disturbing. I cannot help but wonder if these people still respect the Law or not.

Incident 3: FOP statement
http://www.facebook.com/festivalofpraise?filter=1

FOP statement claimed that CHC has supported FOP for the past years and because now that KH and gang are going through a rough patch, FOP cannot go on and have to be cancelled. It ended asking Christians to unite and supports the bros and sis in Christ in time of need.

This statement is not telling the public that there is a logistical problem. It is basically saying that KH and gang are charged and they are facing a challenging time, thus there is no choice but to cancel FOP and rallying all Christians to UNITE and SUPPORT HK and gang in time of need. Unite and supporting a group of people who are accused in court of grave wrong doing for breaching the Law of the Land? What kind of signals are they trying to send out to the public and their followers? If the people stand up UNITED and SUPPORT them, then I want to ask, united and support them against who?

The result of the cases are not out yet, but based on the above 3 incidents, are we able to conclude what kind of people/group of people are we dealing with?

SH

I agree with you recent developments are quite worrying as it seems like a sizeable amount of local Christian community here seem to throw their weights behind Kong Hee.

[Miss Raja]

i see it this way, if the congregation want their pastor to waste their money. Go ahead. Just dont break singapore law or harm others la. So lets let the court decide if laws were broken. The guy who is conned is just as much to blame as the guy who conned him.

[ghibli76]

JTS overseas blogs on this


https://zwingliusredivivus.wordpress.com/2012/06/26/total-depravity-the-singapore-mega-church-pastor-fraud-edition/

http://mtsweat.com/2012/06/26/mega-churches-real-or-just-looting-grounds-for-thieves/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscreed/2012/07/03/megachurch-pastors-a-petersonian-perspective/

http://theparsonspatch.com/2012/06/27/are-mega-churches-real-churches/

http://zwingliusredivivus.wordpress.com/2012/06/26/the-true-shepherd-2/

[phtthp]

Church & State divided, split into two


http://news.insing.com/tabloid/city-harvest-scandal-split-singapore/id-cd543f00