Government, what you really want us to do?
-
Chenonceau:
Thank you! Hooray for Female Solidarity. Take that Enrico Nebbermind! :spank:
Errrrrrrrrrrrr, I am so lost here. I keep seeing Nebbermind being referred to as Enrico a few times liao. Why arrrrrrrh :?
Can Chen or someone please enlighten me :please: :please: -
autumnbronze:
Voilà! http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?p=848773#p848773Chenonceau:
Thank you! Hooray for Female Solidarity. Take that Enrico Nebbermind! :spank:
Errrrrrrrrrrrr, I am so lost here. I keep seeing Nebbermind being referred to as Enrico a few times liao. Why arrrrrrrh :?
Can Chen or someone please enlighten me :please: :please: -
Chenonceau:
Voilà! http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?p=848773#p848773[/quote] :rotflmao: :rotflmao:autumnbronze:
[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]
Thank you! Hooray for Female Solidarity. Take that Enrico Nebbermind! :spank:
Errrrrrrrrrrrr, I am so lost here. I keep seeing Nebbermind being referred to as Enrico a few times liao. Why arrrrrrrh :?
Can Chen or someone please enlighten me :please: :please:
Just wondered cuz the name certainly doesn't fit the image of the avatar!
Thanks Chen! -
3Boys:
Your turn pirate.
(1a) Working mothers' child relief - up to $50,000 per child, with the stated purpose of \"encouraging married women to remain in the workforce after having children\" (as per IRAS website).
(1b) I see a lot of navel gazing about how to make childcare affordable etc., but nothing in relation to the burden of families with a SAHM.
(2) Affordability of HDB BTO is measured with reference to household income. The average household income from work at the 41st-50th percentile in Singapore in 2011 is $7,032 per month. The median gross monthly income (excluding employer's CPF) from work for full-time employed resident (ie. SCs and PRs) is $2,925. For males in the 25-29 age group with secondary, post-secondary (non-tertiary) education, diploma & professional qualification and degree education, the corresponding number is $1,800, $1,950, $2,500 and $3,612 respectively. In MND's blog titled \"Are HDB flats affordable?\" on 12/11/10, the then Minister referenced affordability to BTO flats (with a 30 year mortgage after housing grants) using the following monthly household income yardstick, 2-room $1,400, 3-room $2,300, 4-room $4,200. Do your own maths whether MND is talking about a single or double income household.
More than half of single income graduate households are expected to have an instalment to income ratio of more than 27% if they aspire to anything more than a 3-room BTO (ie. 2 bedrooms) in a non-mature estate.
Incidentally, this doesn't affect me. I am not looking to buy a BTO. -
concern2:
WOW! :goodpost: Cannot beat someone who has experienced first hand! Thanks for sharing, resgmom! And yes, what you have in bold is very true. Although at the end of the day, our parents respect our choices, you know deep down, there is also the social pressure nagging at them when some relative's kids make different choices and are making a good living.[/quote]i actually don't mean the shopping and all that. But good point. From your post, you can see that the American parents are very hands on. They train their kids to be independent. They quit their jobs and dedicate the time ferrying their kids around. They look out for good deals to save money. I agree with you.
I raised my children in the States from they're born to P3 and Nursery, and they're now in P5 and K2 in the Singapore system, please allow me to share my views.resgmom:
[quote=\"nightlone\"]I agree with not hiring maids.
I lived in the States for a couple of years and observed the ang mohs. they have 3, 4 kids. Maybe 1 kid goes to a preschool. The other 2 goes to middle school. The other is, maybe, an infant. The mum brings the kids to school with no external help at all. She puts the car seat in the stroller and drops her preschooler off. Then drives off to drop the other 2. Or vice versa.
I suppose it is much easier with a car and big roads. I just do admire how they are able to do it.
The Singaporeans who have a young child and then give birth there (which makes 2) grumble and whine about how difficult it is to take care of 2 kids. But the ang mohs can do it in the same environment, so why can't the Singaporean?
I concluded that we are all molly-coddled in singapore so cannot adapt to make things work.
I think it's a little unfair to compare States and Sg. However, people in States are generally more relaxed and the operating environment is different. Many dedicated SAHM who chose to stay home (even when they can't really afford it) have normal spouses, they rent a crappy apt/house, drive a crappy second hand car, but the ones dedicated to their kid's education/upbringing will quit their jobs and rent a house in the best school district they could find (even if it means an old/small apt which need constant fixing - that they do it themselves) and spend time nurturing their children, spending time with them, teaching them discipline, and make them responsible for their own behavior while getting them to help with housework (all these take time and effort). They buy many things second hand, from garage sale, or get it free (e.g. freecycle, craigslist). Clothing new/brand new only cost a couple dollars from the thrift stores. We don't have this kind of environment in Singapore. In the States (e.g. Walmart) you have entire walls of toilet paper to chose from, from super cheap to super expensive. The SAHMs there spend tons of time going through newspaper ads and clipping coupons and getting things for a fraction of prices as a result. We don't have these choices in Singapore.
In terms of education, the dedicated parents may not need to send their kids for tuition, however, they have no lack of physical activities/art/drama type \"enrichment\" and those cost money too.
To sum up, many in Singapore can chose to be SAHM if they want to. But the social pressure to \"measure up to the jones\" is more apparent in Sg compared to western countries, where freedom of choices are highly valued. In Singapore, an educated woman who chose to stay home will get constant nagging from, first and foremost, her own parents who \"didn't raise her and send her off to uni to be a housewife\".
I'm not comparing a Singaporean living in Sg with an American living in American. I was comparing a Singaporean to an American who are both living in the same city. Ferrying their kids to school, supermarket, etc.
Cutting the same coupons.
Browsing the same websites.
Going to the same supermarket, eg Walmart.
The American mum seems to be more independent, more put together.
The Singapore mum seems to get very easily overwhelmed.
I'm not comparing a Singaporean living in Sg with an American living in American.
When I bring my child to school, I see the American mum bringing her 4 kids to drop one kid at preschool. Some are bringing around newborns.
And, as an aside, they manage to dress really well in the morning, make up and all. As for me, shamefully, I barely have enough time to brush my teeth, wash my face, change my child, grab a snack, before I rush off to school. I tried to wake up earlier to put on a better face, but failed miserable.
Anyways.... I don't really hear about a parent leaving her newborn with a maid or grandparent when she brings her other child to school.
When my Singapore friend gave birth, she was worried about how she was going to deal with bringing her child to school with her newborn.
To me, it is not a huge deal. I see it being done all the time.
So I think that the worrying is pointless.
Perhaps that we have too high expectations of ourselves.
I used to be that mum who nags at my child when he spills on himself. Doesn't allow him to play play-doh because it's dirty.
Make a huge fuss when he's got crumbs on him.
Etc.
But after living there for a while, I just learnt to let go.
It's just juice/crumbs. That's what the washing machine is for. That's why we take baths.
It's just play-doh. That's what the vacuum cleaner is for.
And it's just how kids are. -
nightlone:
Hmm...still find that you are comparing just one-off cases. But in any case, I do understand what you are trying to say. Perhaps many Singaporeans are less adaptable, too used to having help on hand that they feel crippled and lack the confidence to charge on on their own and take responsibilities. Sometimes, it could also be that emotional dependence that makes it worse when their family leaves. That's why I also do not advocate having maids around if possible. It makes one more dependent. That said, I do empathize a lot with working parents who do not have other help on hand while they are at work.
i actually don't mean the shopping and all that. But good point. From your post, you can see that the American parents are very hands on. They train their kids to be independent. They quit their jobs and dedicate the time ferrying their kids around. They look out for good deals to save money. I agree with you.
I'm not comparing a Singaporean living in Sg with an American living in American. I was comparing a Singaporean to an American who are both living in the same city. Ferrying their kids to school, supermarket, etc.
Cutting the same coupons.
Browsing the same websites.
Going to the same supermarket, eg Walmart.
The American mum seems to be more independent, more put together.
The Singapore mum seems to get very easily overwhelmed.
I'm not comparing a Singaporean living in Sg with an American living in American.
When I bring my child to school, I see the American mum bringing her 4 kids to drop one kid at preschool. Some are bringing around newborns.
And, as an aside, they manage to dress really well in the morning, make up and all. As for me, shamefully, I barely have enough time to brush my teeth, wash my face, change my child, grab a snack, before I rush off to school. I tried to wake up earlier to put on a better face, but failed miserable.
Anyways.... I don't really hear about a parent leaving her newborn with a maid or grandparent when she brings her other child to school.
When my Singapore friend gave birth, she was worried about how she was going to deal with bringing her child to school with her newborn.
To me, it is not a huge deal. I see it being done all the time.
So I think that the worrying is pointless.
Perhaps that we have too high expectations of ourselves.
I used to be that mum who nags at my child when he spills on himself. Doesn't allow him to play play-doh because it's dirty.
Make a huge fuss when he's got crumbs on him.
Etc.
But after living there for a while, I just learnt to let go.
It's just juice/crumbs. That's what the washing machine is for. That's why we take baths.
It's just play-doh. That's what the vacuum cleaner is for.
And it's just how kids are.
Sometimes, it is also a matter of time that one learns. Ultimately, one needs time to adapt and learn. It is whether one sees it as an opportunity or a misfortune that makes the difference.
-
Mychildren:
oh... u don't have to be sorry....nightlone,
When u're sick & your DH oversea for work trips, how ??
By the way, I no maid, mother in law not staying in S'pore. Mother need to take care of my bro's kids. I die die also cannot be sick la. But will think of a way, maybe the young one cannot go school while the elder ones still can go school by themselves.
I don't think anyone wants to put off their parental duties. They just need help here & there. I myself prefers no maid, if not I'll be handling an extra person at home.
Yes, u have to set priorities, what to go first. I put my children first, follow by the rest.
Sorri dear, u can voice up whatever u feel. Not :pokeeye: u. Just stating what I have come across. Do continue to voice your opinions.
Scenario: My husband and I and 1 child overseas
When I was sick, my husband took leave for that day to take care of him. If he couldn't, then I just took medicine, drank a lot of water and 'sucked it up'.
When he went exercise (like for a couple of months), my boy and I actually had a lot of fun ourselves. We went hiking, swimming, shopping, play dates.
We hardly had 'couple time'. We would go for breakfast when he was in school sometimes.
When he wanted to go out with his friends, I stayed in. And vice versa.
When he worked nights, he'd be sleeping during the day. I would bring him to school then went coffee with some friends.
Only thing is that sometimes I don't get the time to cook lunch and his dinner for him to bring to work. So during these times, he'll grab a sandwich to bring to work. But he understands that I need time alone so he doesn't fuss.
Sometimes I envy the no-kids couples. I remember those times too, before kids. They go out til late. Hang out with the other no-kids people. Go group holidays, etc.
It's just that once you have kids, things change. Sacrifices must be made.
Now that we have returned to Singapore, I don't bother the grandparents much. If he wants to go out with his friends, I stay in. And vice versa.
We go out by ourselves only when he's in school. If not, we bring him along.
What I cannot stand is parents who park their kids with other people to go for a haircut or go town to shop or something. I mean, that's why there're 2 right? So that one picks up the slack? One can have a hair cut while the other babysits? And what's the big deal about bringing your kids to the mall? Yeah, they're whiny and keep wanting to look at toys, but that's part and parcel of being a parent. So, go to a park. Or u go out and the husband babysits for a bit. Or something. Just work something out.
That's also what I meant by why people want to have kids but don't want to spend time with them. If you think you enjoy the single life, want to spend on yourself only, then I think one shouldn't have kids. Because once you have them, the single life is but a dream. There probably won't be extra money for you to get non-essential things or at least, you would have to consider very hard before you get that shoe or purse. -
concern2:
I do too empathize with parents who have to rely on themselves only.
Hmm...still find that you are comparing just one-off cases. But in any case, I do understand what you are trying to say. Perhaps many Singaporeans are less adaptable, too used to having help on hand that they feel crippled and lack the confidence to charge on on their own and take responsibilities. Sometimes, it could also be that emotional dependence that makes it worse when their family leaves. That's why I also do not advocate having maids around if possible. It makes one more dependent. That said, I do empathize a lot with working parents who do not have other help on hand while they are at work.nightlone:
i actually don't mean the shopping and all that. But good point. From your post, you can see that the American parents are very hands on. They train their kids to be independent. They quit their jobs and dedicate the time ferrying their kids around. They look out for good deals to save money. I agree with you.
I'm not comparing a Singaporean living in Sg with an American living in American. I was comparing a Singaporean to an American who are both living in the same city. Ferrying their kids to school, supermarket, etc.
Cutting the same coupons.
Browsing the same websites.
Going to the same supermarket, eg Walmart.
The American mum seems to be more independent, more put together.
The Singapore mum seems to get very easily overwhelmed.
I'm not comparing a Singaporean living in Sg with an American living in American.
When I bring my child to school, I see the American mum bringing her 4 kids to drop one kid at preschool. Some are bringing around newborns.
And, as an aside, they manage to dress really well in the morning, make up and all. As for me, shamefully, I barely have enough time to brush my teeth, wash my face, change my child, grab a snack, before I rush off to school. I tried to wake up earlier to put on a better face, but failed miserable.
Anyways.... I don't really hear about a parent leaving her newborn with a maid or grandparent when she brings her other child to school.
When my Singapore friend gave birth, she was worried about how she was going to deal with bringing her child to school with her newborn.
To me, it is not a huge deal. I see it being done all the time.
So I think that the worrying is pointless.
Perhaps that we have too high expectations of ourselves.
I used to be that mum who nags at my child when he spills on himself. Doesn't allow him to play play-doh because it's dirty.
Make a huge fuss when he's got crumbs on him.
Etc.
But after living there for a while, I just learnt to let go.
It's just juice/crumbs. That's what the washing machine is for. That's why we take baths.
It's just play-doh. That's what the vacuum cleaner is for.
And it's just how kids are.
Sometimes, it is also a matter of time that one learns. Ultimately, one needs time to adapt and learn. It is whether one sees it as an opportunity or a misfortune that makes the difference.
It's really not easy, especially in Singapore.
I certainly didn't find it easy when it was just the 3 of us.
I was a single mum before too, during the first year of my kid's life. I went to work, fetched him to and from day care. I had no life at all. When I wanted to go out with friends, my mum wasn't too happy babysitting so i hardly went out. Or just went to friends' with kids house.
Anyway, it was going overseas and relying on ourselves only that I realized that it can be done. And actually it's less stressful too. Coz if u rely on your parents, it may be that they are nagging at u behind your back or you're afraid that they may be too tired or you're afraid that they are allowing your kids to watch too much tv or picking up some habits that you don't like but cannot tell them etc.
But then if you do it yourself, hey, it's my rules.
It's happening in my family now too. All the grandkids are at my house because the grandparents live with us and so I hear things, like the grandma grumbling about this daughter not doing this or that for her child or why her daughter does this or that or even why the daughter dresses her daughter like that.
I know that my SIL is also very stressed with the added expectations. But no choice, she cannot say anything because she needs her parent's help. -
Dora1:
No lah... i'm not comparing sg mummies living in sg to american mummies living in america.
Not fair to SG mummies. Did you also factor in the fact that they can choose to be SAHM, while most SG couples have to be dual income cos they are struggling to pay their HDB flats (esp those bought in the last 3 years)?nightlone:
I agree with not hiring maids.
I lived in the States for a couple of years and observed the ang mohs. they have 3, 4 kids. Maybe 1 kid goes to a preschool. The other 2 goes to middle school. The other is, maybe, an infant. The mum brings the kids to school with no external help at all. She puts the car seat in the stroller and drops her preschooler off. Then drives off to drop the other 2. Or vice versa.
I suppose it is much easier with a car and big roads. I just do admire how they are able to do it.
The Singaporeans who have a young child and then give birth there (which makes 2) grumble and whine about how difficult it is to take care of 2 kids. But the ang mohs can do it in the same environment, so why can't the Singaporean?
I concluded that we are all molly-coddled in singapore so cannot adapt to make things work.
Also, the ang mo education system is so much more relaxed, they don't really care if the kid can read before P1, and they don't have spelling tests etc in pre-schools. They have almost no homework in Primary schools, so the mummy only needs to worry about their well being. Even then, it is perfectly normal for them to just feed their kids a peanut butter sandwich for lunch, would SG mums do that?
I also have no maid, used to be a PTWM, now FTWM, still no maid. I try to cook dinner 3 weekdays. And hubby travels frequently or have night telecons a few times a week. If not he'll be at home working till wee hours of the night almost everyday. No grandparents help also. I could only go back to FTWM cos my girl is bigger now and more independent. She does help out in the housework.I can tell you, it's very very tough. I only have 1 kid. I cannot imagine having a 2nd one.
It's cannot be a fair comparison.
I'm referring to sg mummies living in america and american mummies living in america.
And you may be surprised... they are gan cheong about their kids education but somehow have a very carpe diem attitude about it. They believe more in the all rounder education than our very rigid education here. -
ksi:
haha... i'm talking about me
Hello hello :imanisland: :imanisland: are you talking about me?nightlone:
i ascribe to the thinking that \"it's my choice to have kids so i need to be responsible for them and not park them at the grandparents or someone else.\"
if i think i cannot handle it, then i'm not going to give birth.
what's the point of having a child but being unable to spend time with them and nurture them? what's the point of giving birth when you just leave them with the grandparents or someone else all the time?
I admit i'm selfish de...
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