MOE to stop publishing names of top students?

[sinoboy]

wonderm:

Sorry, can't resist this. :evil:

Answer from the real minister:

Why has MOE stopped releasing top scorers for national exams?
https://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#!/notes/heng-swee-keat/why-has-moe-stopped-releasing-top-scorers-for-national-exams/466910400014157

That is official reasoning. But I want to hear the opinions informally from the policy makers here. They seemed very knowledgeable.

[atutor2001]

pirate:

No, no, no. My comment about sacrifice was in relation to what you said, which was omitted in your response:

atutor2001 also:

Imho, most misconception that IP children have an unfair advantage arises because we only read about success. Little was published on the hard work that they (don't count those truly gifted - they are from another planet) need to put in. We can only see our kids working hard, producing results (in our opinion, more than adequate) and felt that they deserve to be there. Maybe parents with children doing well should share more on how much effort their kids have put in order to be there. Then we can compare the sacrifice made and not just the results.

Surely, the \"sacrifice\" you mentioned means the sacrifice made by the students, not the parents.

I can concede that some round ones \"did not make it because of attitude - no desire to excel\". But others may not have made it because the selection process was flawed. Saying that they \"did not make it because of attitude - no desire to excel\" is poppycock.

I said it is a systemic failure because if the kid scores 1 point less than the COP, the kid is deprived of any opportunity to be taught those HOT in school for 4 whole years in the O-levels schools - HOT which he or she needs to be equipped with in order to tackle A-levels. In truth, we know that the one (or even a few) point difference could very well be due to nothing more than pure dumb luck.

My apology for my self-confusion. Anyway, one of my nephews missed not by 1 point to RI, but by the decimal places. Went to the school of the 2nd choice but still end up in RI for the JC - with the right attitude, the chance is there. I have mentioned earlier that the value added by IP is really not that great. I would like to elaborate that it is the environment (i.e. the culture) of that IP school that is important. Somehow, the students help to push each other to perform.

Just something interesting on how \"hard\" these kids had \"worked\". After today's A level Chem paper, most them straight away know that 6 of the MCQ questions were \"repeats\" from past year papers with exactly the same values. (is that HOT or ...)

[Twinkies]

sinoboy:

ChiefKiasu:

As I have said earlier, there is unhappiness about the current situation not only from mainstream parents, but also from parents of Geppers. Please avoid statements like these that can easily be construed as inflammatory when directed at entire groups of people. The discussion so far is highly constructive because there is mutual respect for everyone's points. We would very much like to keep it this way.

Thank you.

It is painful to be told the truth. People get very defensive and abuses starts coming up especially when those who that have benefited from an exploit is uncovered and attempts are made to close off the exploits.

Talk about GEP, GEPpers parents starts to say my kid is smart what. Talk about DSA, they say fair what just a bit slow only. Talk about ASEAN scholar, because we Singaporeans no brains...

This is but a very small sample of the defensive voices. Wait till the parents come back from their year end holidays.

You mistaken what he'd said... try again.

[pirate]

wonderm:

On the other hand, I believe it is not true that ALL O Level schools do not provide any HOT training throughout 4 years.

What? As a parent (or a 12 year old for that matter), I am supposed to tikam-tikam which, if any, O-level school provides HOT training, is it? Is that how it is supposed to work?

[jtoh]

I too believe that HOT is taught in some of the better O level schools. Maybe not to the entire cohort but to its top class.

[Sun_2010]

sinoboy:

ChiefKiasu:

As I have said earlier, there is unhappiness about the current situation not only from mainstream parents, but also from parents of Geppers. Please avoid statements like these that can easily be construed as inflammatory when directed at entire groups of people. The discussion so far is highly constructive because there is mutual respect for everyone's points. We would very much like to keep it this way.

Thank you.

It is painful to be told the truth. People get very defensive and abuses starts coming up especially when those who that have benefited from an exploit is uncovered and attempts are made to close off the exploits.

Talk about GEP,
GEPpers parents ( Directed at the whole group) starts to say my kid is smart what. Talk about DSA, they say fair what just a bit slow only.
Talk about ASEAN scholar, because we Singaporeans no brains...
Can you show more than one post that states this to make sweeping statements?

This is but a very small sample of the defensive voices. Wait till the parents come back from their year end holidays.

After all the generalizations and sweeping statements , not a single hard fact to support it , not even rough statistics , you have the verve to talk about sheer ignorance and ulterior motives. Seriously :slapshead:

[concern2]

Melodies:

:goodpost:
Just sad that those \"round' kids wake up late and only found that all the odds are against them!

Could you share why you think we may not have a choice but to raise the A level standard if we compare with other Asian countries?

Those scholars went oversea, did they find bored?

Many I know gained back the confidence that had been eroded by the the local education system and bloomed. However, it was the local system that set the foundation in their abilities to cope with standard overseas. For all you know, it could be the societal and parental pressure that has been lifted off their shoulders that allows them to bloom.

[Nebbermind]

sinoboy:

This is but a very small sample of the defensive voices. Wait till the parents come back from their year end holidays.

me? :imanangel:

[pirate]

Well... we seem to have conflicting cartography here.


On the one hand, we have this warning of whirlpools along the O-level route:

him4mixer:

1. IP students. There is a positive correlation between good PSLE results and good A level results. Majority of them who scored at >260 will tend to score at least 5 As in the 'A' level. The IP program in general teaches them important skills (like critical thinking, hypothesis testing, and data analysis) that traditional schools do not (due to preparation for O level exams). These (higher order thinking) HOT skills enable them to handle the A level exams better and thus it is no surprise these students will tend to perform better. However it is NOT 100% that once these high PSLE scorers are in IP they will perform well. I've GEP students who failed JC1 promos twice and was forced to leave school. Numerous too are those who finished JC2 without getting an A level cert.

2. O level students. Those who took O level exam and managed to get into the school will tend to struggle in the first year. This is because they have not learnt the HOT skills and will find the questions challenging. I've students with 9A1s and school results were mediocre all the way till prelim. Only in 'A' level some managed to get their full As again.

On the other hand, others seem to be saying it's calm seas ahead:

slmkhoo:

pirate:

[quote=\"wonderm\"]On the other hand, I believe it is not true that ALL O Level schools do not provide any HOT training throughout 4 years.

What? As a parent (or a 12 year old for that matter), I am supposed to tikam-tikam which, if any, O-level school provides HOT training, is it? Is that how it is supposed to work?

I agree with wonderm. I don't think HOT training is either all or nothing; either taught or not taught. It may be encouraged or required more in some schools than others, probably as a result of the students' abilities, but I doubt any school does not encourage it at all. To suport teachers in this, we should avoid encouraging kids to take the easy way out by 'memorising the textbook/notes' for humanities subjects. I am horrified by the number if times I have seen that advice given here and in other forums. I also feel that we should not expect HOT to be encouraged only in school. As parents, we can encourage our kids to ask the 'why' questions, looks at issues from various perspectives and form opinions. And for kids with slower thought processes (I have a child like that), being in a group of less quick students encourages such thought. It can be very discouraging to have a discussion with people whose minds work a great deal faster than your own as you can't form opinions fast enough to keep up.[/quote]How is a Kiasu Pirate supposed to chart a course like that? Like I asked earlier, just be kiasu and take the IP route or tikam-tikam with the O-level route and keep fingers crossed? Assuming of course the kid is seaworthy.

[SAHM_TAN]

I doubt that there’s no HOT in O levels.


For example history. For qn, that requires more analysis, there are several levels of answer in the mark scheme. If just give content answer with no degree of analysis, the student will be awarded x marks. If some attempt of analysis x+x marks. Students who delve more into the qn, applicable, to their level, they will be awarded more marks.

So cannot say no teaching of HOT. Perhaps it boils down to teacher and students again. If a child has not been exposed to critical thinking in primary school, the kid might not progress as much in such skills in sec level.

The effectiveness of teachers also differ, not necessarily peg to the type of school. The various factors combine provide different experiences.

Errrr… Also not necessarily kids who attend IP will understand HOT. Some 一点就懂, some have it tougher. Again many factors into play, difficult to say what works and what will not work.