Are you ready for 7 million people on tiny Singapore?
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MMM:
:rotflmao: This :imconstipated: so apt here!
Concern2,concern2:
:hi5: But hor, next time who would want to marry my boy if he is a plumber? :faint: See, I don't mind if he's a plumber and he gets to spend more time with family. I also don't mind them wanting to get married earlier and have children at a younger age, and I can be a grandparent at an age which I can be mobile enough to give a helping hand if needed...only thing is would kiasuparents want their DD to marry a plumber?
Maybe you got foresight... For all you know, maybe a plumber is paid more than a doctor next time. As without the plumber, maybe it will be :imconstipated:
Ho tan bo would depend on durability of appliances or :imconstipated: , competition in the market, how DIY people are in general, and how efficient one is. Maybe invent new kind of toilet bowl will be more ho tan..., then pakak with garmen, all public toilets must use our system...
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And also when these FT reach a certain position where they have a say in hiring, they will want ti hire their own kind, to build up their å°ē, whether intentionally or subconciously. It is quite human nature.
Dora1:
I totally agree with you. 10+ years ago, when I was a fresh graduate, I had no problems look for a job even though I have no experience. The companies were will to give us a chance and train us. Now, in the stat board that I am in, there are 10 fresh uni grads who have technical degrees fr NUS and NTU, doing temp data entry and admin work. They said they can't find work, cos the companies all don't want to hire fresh graduates. My friends who are still in the industry say that's because for the same pay, they can hire FTs with abt 3-5 years experience. So its credit to the HR if they can get the max out of the same $$. However, these FTs bring their very different work culture with them. When their numbers are small, it is easier to mould them to adapt to the SG culture. But now we have 80% of the depts from the same country, the working culture is no longer SG. I shared previously that there are MNCs who are considering to stop further investments in SG because they find that SG now has 1st world cost of doing business, but 3rd world work attitude. And on top of that, the young SG grads cannot find work and are doing stg totally unrelated. a few years later, companies will continue to lament that they need to hire more FTs because no SCs with relevant experience and expertise. They were never given the chance in the 1st place, how to have the experience?MMM:
Personally, I don't mind FT in some area (eg. construction, cleaner, etc...) I also don't mind some in service but it does get alarming if every shop you go, you think you are in another country or to the effect that all the NTUC local aunties are being replaced by F\"T\"... then I think that is really too much.
We do observed a resource crunch recently at various food places. Plates will pile up, etc... and there are only a few cleaners. The positive aspect is that we start to see local old folks taking up more of those job as compared to before where it's mainly done by F\"T\". Some of these old folks need a job and they probably didn't stand a chance earlier before the stricter control????
In the workplace, we have alot of FT. In my old co., locals are the minorities. Though we work harmoniously together as a team but I feel that some of these jobs don't actually need a FT. These are jobs that can be performed by our local graduates. So are our local graduates being deprived a chance due to that????
If the companies cannot hire FTs so freely like during my time, I'm sure they will be more willing to hire fresh graduates. -
MMM:
They are already getting that lah. Recently I get a plumber to repair a spoilt tap, Cost $120 for 20mins job.
Concern2,concern2:
:hi5: But hor, next time who would want to marry my boy if he is a plumber? :faint: See, I don't mind if he's a plumber and he gets to spend more time with family. I also don't mind them wanting to get married earlier and have children at a younger age, and I can be a grandparent at an age which I can be mobile enough to give a helping hand if needed...only thing is would kiasuparents want their DD to marry a plumber?
Maybe you got foresight... For all you know, maybe a plumber is paid more than a doctor next time. As without the plumber, maybe it will be :imconstipated: -
pirate:
Sometimes is not that they are not willing to accept lower pay, but it is that hiring is åę by the agencies (the HR people like to outsourse their job to agencies) , and the agencies probably have connection with overseas agencies , and may be they can make more by recommending foreigner.Dora1:
I totally agree with you. 10+ years ago, when I was a fresh graduate, I had no problems look for a job even though I have no experience. The companies were will to give us a chance and train us. Now, in the stat board that I am in, there are 10 fresh uni grads who have technical degrees fr NUS and NTU, doing temp data entry and admin work. They said they can't find work, cos the companies all don't want to hire fresh graduates. My friends who are still in the industry say that's because for the same pay, they can hire FTs with abt 3-5 years experience.
Maybe you should ask those 10 fresh uni grads why they never take the initiative to offer to take a lower pay to undergo on-the-job training doing the front-line operations work of their desired prospective employers? Why they rather go do data-entry and low level admin work in a stat board? How they expect to get relevant experience if they not willing to get their hands dirty or their shirts sweaty or scolded by unreasonable customers? -
hercules:
Dora1:
Now, in the stat board that I am in, there are 10 fresh uni grads who have technical degrees fr NUS and NTU, doing temp data entry and admin work. They said they can't find work, cos the companies all don't want to hire fresh graduates.
this will be what some of our kids will face in the future. the problem can only get worst with useless degrees in hands. Though useless to some, almost all kids will still try to fight till heads broken for a degree.
Strange isnt it ?
If a degree is lets you get a job as a temp data entry operator , then why all this hulla bulla about \" good schools\" and foreign scholars taking up uni places. Afterall that struggle they are getting worthless cert.
Singapore will be like Japan, Korea, Taiwan, etc in the near future where many grads cannot find a job. Too many grads and not enough jobs or jobs taken by you-know-who.
Japan, Korea, Taiwan got too many FT ? Did not know that...
wanna increase CPF withdrawal age regardless of whether people know how to plan or dont know how to plan - one size doesnt fit all.
wanna increase population to 7 million to 'create jobs' - try to one size fit all again.
So how? have a different population for each group?
there will always be evils in these policies and we just have to wait and see who are the lucky and unlucky ones (unlucky ones refer to those who go thru much in their academic journey and only to realise no firms wants to employ him).
If our grads have walked thru uni without an ilking of how to fend and grow in the job market, what they need to do to stay relevant and adapt to that , they should ask for a refund. Its a dog-eat-dog world out there . And if education has not prepared one for that, too bad. We will learn it the hard way. -
Thats why i dont think anybody is saying that we dont need foreigner. We are just requesting for a more manageable numbers.
3Boys:
Why does one assume that the lack of suitable job opportunities is down to the presence of foreign workers? One can make the case that if not for the presence of foreign workers (FTs, FWs or what have you), we would have even FEWER industries, and FEWER companies and FEWER HQs, and therefore, even less jobs for Singaporeans.
If having greater numbers of qualified workers take away jobs, then countries like the Philippines, India, China should have tons of high value jobs available for their resident citizens, since they are exporting tons of their most highly qualified people to OTHER countries, right?
So what's the truth? Foreigners create jobs or foreigners take away jobs? It's both.
People make it out to be a zero-sum game, when it is far from being the case. -
znzyzyzx:
They are already getting that lah. Recently I get a plumber to repair a spoilt tap, Cost $120 for 20mins job.[/quote] :evil: You see? But hor, someone here spoiling market leh - market rate is only 80 bucks per trip hor! The rest is cost of spare parts - and perhaps your tap!
Concern2,MMM:
[quote=\"concern2\"]
:hi5: But hor, next time who would want to marry my boy if he is a plumber? :faint: See, I don't mind if he's a plumber and he gets to spend more time with family. I also don't mind them wanting to get married earlier and have children at a younger age, and I can be a grandparent at an age which I can be mobile enough to give a helping hand if needed...only thing is would kiasuparents want their DD to marry a plumber?
Maybe you got foresight... For all you know, maybe a plumber is paid more than a doctor next time. As without the plumber, maybe it will be :imconstipated:
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:goodpost:
MR06:
I feel not enough is being done to help the \"unemployable\" to get a job and we had all this while taken the easy way out by bringing in foreigners.
Let me define the \"unemployable\"
1. Employers' prejudice
2. Employees' \"hindrances\"
a) attitude
b) personal hygiene
c) low-self esteem
d) image
e) interpersonal skills
(there should be more, but off-hand that's what I can think of)
Without some hand-holding and guidance, some people would not know their own \"hindrances\" or how to overcome these \"hindrances\". Maybe the government could put in some resources to reach out to these people. Perhaps have some schemes to encourage them to work cum train for a start in stats board with mentors. Tap this pool of people, equip them and help them to stand on their feet.
I used to see this man who diligently goes to the community centre to pick up the Chinese papers and scour its classified job ads. I've seen him doing that for one whole year! I wondered if he went beyond jotting down the numbers ect. Did he make any calls? Did he went for any interviews? Did he get any offers? Did he reject any offers? I have no answer. -
Dora1:
Therein lies the paradox. Nobody starts immediately as a chef in a 5* hotel (unless parents are loaded); any aspiring chef have to start work as a line cook and work their way up to become sous chef before becoming an executive chef.
The \"face\" is directly related to the pay. If your son works as a cook in the coffeeshop vs chef in a 5 * hotel, what is the difference in the face? They are essentially the same job, the difference is the pay! No face if you are lower income and every month have to wait for gov's this and that grant in order to survive.Dreamaurora:
I think this also got to do with how children nowadays are brought up. If as a parent we keep emphasizing our kids to study hard and get a cushy office job, obviously our children will think twice before accepting lower pay or mundane jobs. Because doing so will cause them to 'lose face'.
I am really fascinated by how people in this island view these jobs. When I watch sitcoms from USA, I notice that even the blue collar workers are portrayed very favourably e.g. that plumber hunk from Desperate Housewives. I once asked my angmor friend and really he said that back in his country the social stigma associated with the blue collar jobs is far less than Singapore. I hope one day we can reach a point where all jobs are treated with respect and we all can be proud of whatever jobs our kids partake.
If we link 'face' to how much we earn, the joy is only temporary. And having a lot of 'face' because of how much we earn does not guarantee respect from others; just see how much animosity people have towards our MPs and ministers despite them earning really a lot of money. For me 'face' is about the quality and honesty in my work. I watched Jiro Dreams of Sushi and I truly respect that kind of character. Even though he could have gone fully commercial and set up sushi chains to earn really lots of money, he choose to devote his heart and soul to his sushi creations in that single sushi shop he owns for decades. Now that is a 'face' that I would die for. We don't work to please other people. If 'face' is that important, why is it many high earning professionals decided to do mid-career switch to a job that is much less prestigious and lesser pay such as teaching or social work? -
Sun_2010:
I also dont know what is the hulla bulla all about. 'People have, I also want to have', regardless of whether having it is at what cost and whether worth or not - typical of human or just applicable to Singaporeans?
If a degree is lets you get a job as a temp data entry operator , then why all this hulla bulla about \" good schools\" and foreign scholars taking up uni places. Afterall that struggle they are getting worthless cert.Sun_2010:
Need to reach a compromise, a middle ground somewhere. Dont overkill.
So how? have a different population for each group? .Sun_2010:
I would say majority of our local kids are not prepared for that, too bad!If our grads have walked thru uni without an ilking of how to fend and grow in the job market, what they need to do to stay relevant and adapt to that , they should ask for a refund. Its a dog-eat-dog world out there . And if education has not prepared one for that, too bad. We will learn it the hard way.
Havent you heard enough of uni-potentials wanna to go to a certain course, such as banking, that they are interested in, but couldn't get in. So die die must go to the uni and ended up anyhow kasa a course that they could enter. After graduated, then anyhow kasa a job. In their little minds, degree is THE THING; anything else lesser is a shame!
A level results will be out soon. Many of these kids will have to 'kasa kasa' again. I dont blame the kids but lament over some parents who cannot offer them wiser choices and have to fix their eyes die die on the uni. With not-so-wise parents (even high educated ones), what can we expect from these kids?
Yawn...
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