桃花谈
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insider:
Most welcome Insider. I am glad to have finally pass up something that I think can ‘see the world’. As I write, there was a part of me which wonder if I would be judged from now on. I do know, from experience, being able to consolidate and to share it, is part of the healing process.Imami
Thanks for taking the time and guts to write...
Your account is 'interesting' and I can see more 'good' than 'bad' from your past experiences.
Now I working. Will elaborate more when free.
Good job!! -
Imami:
Imami
Most welcome Insider. I am glad to have finally pass up something that I think can ‘see the world’. As I write, there was a part of me which wonder if I would be judged from now on. I do know, from experience, being able to consolidate and to share it, is part of the healing process.
Can share about what triggered you to decide not to be kind anymore about 10 years ago?
Can give an example of what you meant by you can 一手遮天？
Can also share something about your dad (you close to him? his character, etc) ?
Do you have other siblings?
Your son now is 5 years old? You plan to have another one?? -
I think you might be referring to the 因果book
I spent sometime looking for it too, until I saw it in one of the temple when I went to pray for my FIL
Its free-printing donated by some one, took 1 home to read and explain to kids,at the same time to "refresh" my mind (yes, sometime u really need reminder to be good), some are too profound for my kids to understand. the book contain illustration, if they cant understand the words, then see picture.
The temple is called “万佛林” at bedok. -
insider:
A lot of different and little things. One day I just realised it didn’t pay to be nice anymore. There were people I knew who were plain nasty but nothing bad seemed to happen to them. Moving up the corporate ladder was not based on how much hard work you have put in. So long as you can smoke very well, know how to tango with the bosses, how well you can play the corporate game, and then you win liao. No matter how good I actually am/ how hard I work.
Imami
Can share about what triggered you to decide not to be kind anymore about 10 years ago?
Who your father is, is actually quite important. How wealthy your family is, is actually quite important. I felt I was bypassed as potential hire simply becos i was not a local grad. I saw how my second brother struggled with life, being sidelined and having to work so much harder. If only we had enough money to also put him through uni education. Life was so unfair. Not everyone has a fair chance in life.
When the Lehman Brothers incident happened, I saw how people 家破人亡。One very close family member was made to leave the company simply because his boss didn’t like him and his attitude (this family member thought being late for 5min was no big deal and argued so to the boss. The boss hated his guts and forced him to leave). I saw how power could enable you to do what you want to do.
When my eldest brother and his wife were getting married, there were a lot of quarrels. Everything and anything also can quarrel. All I saw was how my mum was ‘bashed’ by my brother, his wife and her mother. When my niece and nephew (a pair of twins) were born, we were so happy. Becos my second brother and wife didn’t have any kids then, this twin was 过房 to them as god children (dunno if I use the correct term?). Unfortunately, we were hardly allowed access to them. As their only aunt, I had NEVER carried my niece and nephew BEFORE. Never.
See, how unreasonable/childish I was?insider:
I was very demanding and mean. The only right person in the world was me and me only. Bosses included. It helped that I had extremely good memory and worked fast. I was like a talking and walking company encyclopaedia. Because I was a pioneer in that company and had been there for a long time, i knew a lot of things. I was overly critical over work and along the way, created much disharmony in the office and made some enemies along the way. One of the colleagues who ‘suffered’ at my hand was a young girl. She was my assistant. Even though I had left that company, we kept in touch. To this day, this young girl still addressed me as “sista”, would call me out for tai tai catch up and would look for me when she needs advice on babies (she is now married with a kid). So as you can see, while I was a tyrant who went around trashing people, I was also very blessed to have someone like her, who didn’t bear any grudges. During our most recent lunch date, she thanked me for being so strict with her when she first joined the company and that she had learnt a lot from me. But of cos, she is the only one exception and I am extremely grateful that I have this one exception.Can give an example of what you meant by you can 一手遮天？
I had scolded a banquet manager, a waitress and a childcare centre teachers. I had screamed at a childcare centre principal too. I don’t even want to recall how many consultants/project members I have put down.
Funny the big bosses in USA (I worked for a US company) liked me. I was placed on a through-train management programme and headed/held key positions in many projects. I thrived on my bosses’ favoritism. I knew I should not be like that but I didn’t care. It was not important, because I was seeing result of my new belief (that being kind doesn’t pay). See where I am now? I am fierce and ruthless (I would drop consultants off the team without considering their rice bowl safe or not). But because I had the bosses pecking out of my hands, I thought I rule my world. I was tasked with overseeing the 26 offices in the whole Asia Pacific and Europe and had a dotted reporting line to big big bosses in California. A big and important portfolio for a young executive. Such responsibility fed my bad behavior.insider:
I was quite close to my father. When I was a little girl, I would climb up to his lap every night to watch tv, until I was erm… too big to fit into his lap hahahah…Can also share something about your dad (you close to him? his character, etc) ?
He would always give me $10/$20 to buy books. Given my family financial situation then, $10 is a lot. For the young me, he was very knowledgeable, could talk to me about the stars, how the planets orbit around the sun. He hardly smile (not a happy person, u can tell), but I could always put a smile on his face. He had always wanted a daughter. When my mother was pregnant with her first baby, my father thought of two names – one for a boy and the other for a girl. But this girl’s name was never used until many years later, when I was born.
My father didn’t have a good childhood/family upbringing. When he was still in his mum’s tummy, his father was killed during a fight which broke out due to racial disharmony (See people, maintaining racial harmony is very impt de). His mother blamed this unborn son for her husband death. If not for this accident, I believe my father would grow up differently. I think to a large extend, he is what he is because of his childhood. His mum re-married but the step-father died young. To make ends meet, his mum took up the job to clean the ship hulls. That is a very tough and demanding job which requires her to be away from home for close to a week each time. My father has two elder siblings and they sort of take care of him during the growing up years.
From the way I wrote, it is not difficult to tell that I am not close to my paternal grandparents. They had long passed away by the time I was born.
My father has a bad temper, has a small money bowl and big patch of 无明 (hahahah…. I think la). He has good mind, is good with numbers but poor people skills.
My father is not a good husband but to me, he is a good enough father. I grow up knowing/deciding I don’t want to marry a man like my father (oops).insider:
Yes, I have 2 brothers. I am the youngest.Do you have other siblings?
insider:
Yup, son just turn 5 in Feb. We have always wanted to have at least 2 kids. Unfortunately, the second one has never arrived (yet). The hope is getting dimmer and dimmer. Someone told me,”Give up hope la! When u give up, then will have liao!” It will be one of my greatest regrets in this life to leave with only one child.Your son now is 5 years old? You plan to have another one??
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chloecube:
thank you very much. I shall check out万佛林.I think you might be referring to the 因果book
I spent sometime looking for it too, until I saw it in one of the temple when I went to pray for my FIL
Its free-printing donated by some one, took 1 home to read and explain to kids,at the same time to \"refresh\" my mind (yes, sometime u really need reminder to be good), some are too profound for my kids to understand. the book contain illustration, if they cant understand the words, then see picture.
The temple is called “万佛林” at bedok. -
Imami:
I finished reading your homework with tears. You really stressed a lot. It is good to be able to share, right, let what inside your heart flow out...
Most welcome Insider. I am glad to have finally pass up something that I think can ‘see the world’. As I write, there was a part of me which wonder if I would be judged from now on. I do know, from experience, being able to consolidate and to share it, is part of the healing process.insider:
Imami
Thanks for taking the time and guts to write...
Your account is 'interesting' and I can see more 'good' than 'bad' from your past experiences.
Now I working. Will elaborate more when free.
Good job!! -
ruohoo97:
:hugs: don't cry, no need to cry.
I finished reading your homework with tears. You really stressed a lot. It is good to be able to share, right, let what inside your heart flow out... -
ammonite:
Hi Ammonite,
:hugs: Children can be very forgiving and forgetful. In addition to this thread, books like the \"five love languages for children\" can be helpful too. If he clams up, don't probe. When he wants to talk, just listen, don't say \"come to us\" if it has been a sore point. After a while, he will realise that he CAN go to you.Emelyn:
:sad:
Last night, DS1 complained about how DS2 constantly disturbs and irritates him. While talking, he also started to say how stressed he is and that his teacher picks on him.
Then I said : If you have any problem, please come and talk to Daddy or Mummy.
He replied : No. I will talk to my friends.
so sad. :sad:
There appears to be a barrier wall between him and us (DH and I). Probably due to all these years of incompetent parenting on our part.
Insider, how can I break this wall ? I am starting to practise what I learnt in this thread. But I suppose it will take time....
Last night ds1 was telling me about his classmate, N. N's parents divorced last year and both sides remarried. Ds1 told me he and another girl will just keep quiet and listen when N talks about her parents and how much she hates them and wishes that she can cane them. (the three kids sit together) she recently moved out and now lives with other relatives and said they treat her much better than her real parents and step parents.
I was sort of surprised that ds1 and the other girl instinctively knew to listen quietly, and not to tell the other students in the class. N used to cry in class, and ds1 said last night that she gets more depressed every year. They have been in the same class since P1. Sometimes peers are better at listening without judging or commenting. It is something that I have to remind myself to do as well. Just listen, don't try to judge or fix every time even though the urge to point out the 'right' path can be so strong. Timing is important too.
Sorry for the late reply. Very busy this week.
Thanks for your advice. Yes, I should really need to shut my mouth and just listen. I am too quick to comment and too quick to judge. That's the biggest problem with me. I will keep your words in mind. Thanks !! -
Imami:
Busy mom, not trying to answer on behalf of insider here but I would like to share my thoughts on this.
To be filial, does it mean that the child cannot disobey the parents in any way? What if the child genuinely thinks differently from the parents?Busymom:
[quote=\"insider\"]
百善以孝为先. If one cannot fulfill this basic part of being a human, then even with a good Life Plate it will also turn bad and if with a bad Life Plate, it will turn ever worst. (I know there are parents who are unfit to be parents, such as those fathers raping their daughters. But I shall not go into that else I cannot finish writing this thread).
I am quite a delinquent, always have been and I think always will be. I sometimes disagree with how my parents think and at times I really feel like telling them off. From 弟子规 I realize that if the children disagree with the parents, they shd tell the parents gently. Even if it means telling them many times. Even if the children themselves are very pek chek.
I think this is right. But hor, it is very difficult to do..... :faint:[/quote]Thanks, Imami.
There was a time when my mom was very against a decision that I had made. I talked to her every night, for many hours. At the end of each session, I thought that I had almost managed to talk her around. However, the next morning, she would go back to her old stubborn self and I would be back to square one again trying to persuade her. She was probably in a big patch of 无明. Or maybe I was...
She finally accepted my choice, after a long time. Initially out of her love for me, but eventually she realized that I wasn't wrong. However, my dad didn't forgive me for causing her such grievance, for a very long time. In his mind during that whole time, I probably was the most unfilial child in the entire universe. I dreaded going home every night, not sure when I may step on a land mine and get blown into pieces. -
insider:
Thank you, insider. Although your reply is a much longer one, I appreciate it a lot as you have explained filial piety from a few angles.Busymom:
To be filial, does it mean that the child cannot disobey the parents in any way? What if the child genuinely thinks differently from the parents?
Emmm…filial piety doesn’t mean a child cannot disobey the parents in ALL situations. (I will use ‘disagree’ to replace ‘disobey’ here first to state my views).
In our relationships with all people (children and our parents incl), most of the time we can ‘agree to disagree’ (oh, how familiar it is to read this in every forum!). However, we all know when someone disagrees, that someone can approach the matters in several different ways to make the opposite party feels:
-\tRespecting your disagreement coz you disagree amicably, or
-\tUpset by your disagreement coz of unnecessary sarcasm / challenges / bad tone embedded in the disagreement.
When we disagree, we must be able to disagree in a manner that the other party knows your position without feeling hurtful / resentful.
A matured person will know how to bring an disagreement across ‘peacefully’ while an immature one may bring unnecessary ‘wars’ via the disagreement (trust you have seen enough of flame wars if the other party retaliates).
Not all of us are lucky enough to have understanding parents or parents-in-law. Some of these elderly maybe capable of driving people up the walls. If these elderly are unreasonable, such as wanting to feed your child Coke when the child is only 2 years old, you may disobey gently but firmly and this disobedience is not unfiliar. However, if you disobey in an unfriendly manner, or even rudely and fiercely and then you go home and make a big fuss out of it by complaining excessively to your spouse and others, then it is not filial = negative points in multiplier effect.
We cannot view the elderly, esp the more uneducated ones, at the same level as ourselves (more educated) most of the time. They may do things and interpret things differently from us coz they do not have the opportunities to gain knowledge that we deem as ‘common sense’. At their age, their emotions and thought process are / maybe different from us. For example, they may dote on their grandchildren in really unhealthy ways that we disagree / disallow but we all know they do it out of love for their grand kids only. Its only when we can fully appreciate their love for our kids, then we maybe able to be ‘less harsh’ in our disobedience towards them when values clash.
Perhaps I add something here. Having blessings from grandparents can also receive ‘jackpot’ positive points in multiplier effects (in fact, receiving blessings from any old person will enjoy this effect coz it involves filial piety).
This is CNY and I am quite sad when eldest brother’s family did not come to visit my mum for 拜年 coz my eldest brother is not in good term with my sis-in-law. Both my brother and his wife are so unwise to deprive their son from receiving blessings from my mum (‘blessings’ here refer to having an adult meeting a young one and feels 疼爱 for that young one. It comes in a very simple form of a handshake between the grandparents and the child and/ or a pat on the head/shoulder that usually couple with the words, “要乖乖” or “要听话” or “学业进步”. These are ‘free’ blessings that have positive multiplier effects but some coz of their stubbornness, just refuse to allow their kids to receive such from their grandparents.
Everyone of us comes with a certain amount of 福气 in our life and we plus and minus this 福气 as we are living along till the day we die. No matter how much or how little 福气that one has, he / she will never use up all his / her 福气 in this life. The ‘balance’ 福气 will be given to the people whom that person wants to bless before he / she dies and this 福气 = positive points that come with multiplier effects and so it is more valuable than the money that this person leaves behind (as inheritance).
Similarly, before a person dies, he / she will leave behind some 怨气 or regrets. Don’t be part of this 怨气 coz this carries negative points that also come with multiplier effects if it comes from the elderly, esp our parents.
My dad had several wives and my grandma wasn’t very kind to my mum at the earlier stage of their relationship.
At my grandma’s last breath, she told my mum, “Ah xxx, you don’t worry. You are such a good person. Your children will be fine.” (my mum just recounted this to me again yesterday)
This is tremendous blessings and all her kids are overall OK judging from the ‘standard’ of children born around my era (different era got different ‘standards’). My mum slogged a lot when she was younger and now her ‘pocket money’ from all her children is about $4,000 - $5,000 per month. As said earlier, my parents’ 6 kids are filial children in general (but each of us does have our own temperament that we try to monitor each other to please our mum if things don’t go right). With this huge allowance (for an old folk), my mum will happily splurge on my other siblings who require financial help (we don’t help our poorer siblings directly and any financial help will come from my mum to her child).
As you can see, my grandma blessed my mum. Then not only my mum benefits, I (as a grand child) also benefit. So, the relationship is a direct one.
Therefore, don’t deprive your children from receiving blessings from their grandparents just because maybe you cannot see eye-to-eye with them. A parent’s 无明 affects a child (if the child doesn’t born with sufficient wisdom to fend for himself/herself).
Going back to the original question.
Most of the time we can just oblige the old folks and don’t fight with them over things that are not life threatening. Most of the time we disagree coz of our own internal ‘instinct’ to ‘fight back’ coz their patterns are just so different from ours and we want our ways. No point fighting coz even on the surface you win, you lose all those positive points AND in multiplier effects… (same lah, no point for a husband to fight with the wife over small things else usually will kena ‘punishments’ in multiplier effects and so smarter ones most of the time will just oblige and close the case. Men usually can get this ‘concept’ easier than women, meaning most women don’t get it).
PS: Imami's reply is a succinct one and is right. My reply tends to be more long winded...
I think for my parents' generation, any form of disagreement, especially if it's a non-negotiable point to them (a matter of different views actually), would be deemed as 不听话. 不听话=不孝顺. My dad is not a good husband nor a good father, but he is an extremely filial son. Hence he could not accept anything less than a gold standard from us.
Anyway this is already 陈年往事. Don't think he is sore about it anymore. As for myself, I barely remember some of those really fearful days, until now.
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