Real reason behind Singapore’s obsession with tuition
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verykiasu2010:
even for burger king and macdonald, not all burgers or fries are exactly the same from store to store even though within the chain they share the same manual and procedures....what more a school[/quote]If the BK and Mac does not control the meat source and allow outlets to choose freely, these will certainly have a significant impact on the quality of the burgers and is deemed a defective policy that is under the jurisdiction of the HQ management right?
I blame MOE for defective policies.limlim:
[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]
That's just it! We should stop blaming the Teachers. Good organisations get good performance out of average and poor performers. They don't just point the finger at Teachers and say \"They're incompetent\" and at parents and say \"They're kiasu\".
And, my comment is largely targeted at a specific area, where MOE did not disallow moonlight by its teachers. This is so wrong, IMO. It has nothing to with individual outlets but rather the rules set by HQ that could have an impact of the quality downstream. -
autumnbronze:
Some members mentioned it in the thread. Heard from my friends who are teachers too.limlim:
point of contention is MOE's policy.. they did not disallow moonlighting..
Ohhhh, am not aware of this. Any leads that confirm this?? -
puff:
yup. agree. hence, disallowing teachers to moonlight would not have -ve impact on someone like her, a committed and delicate teacher (assumed).
I got a teacher friend who start work at 6am and most days finish at 6pm or later.... That is 12 hrs of work everyday. To me that seems tough.limlim:
IF being a teacher is so TOUGH like some of the pple here say.. how can they ever afford the extra energy to moonlight? doesn't makes sense to me..
And I also feel that, assuming there is reliable way to check, teacher with least number of students who does not attend enrichment classes should be rewarded somehow. % of students having tuition should be a KPI. High % implies failure. Teachers should discourage students from having enrichment classes. -
On one hand, pple say that teaching is tough work.
On the other hand, they seems to suggest that the option to moonlight should not be taken away from them.
Contradicting indeed…
And still failed to address the issue of potential conflict of interest that is detrimental to the well being of the school classes. -
limlim:
[/quote]puff:
[quote=\"limlim\"]
IF being a teacher is so TOUGH like some of the pple here say.. how can they ever afford the extra energy to moonlight? doesn't makes sense to me..
And I also feel that, assuming there is reliable way to check, teacher with least number of students who does not attend enrichment classes should be rewarded somehow. % of students having tuition should be a KPI. High % implies failure. Teachers should discourage students from having enrichment classes.
Agree whole-heartedly with this pt. I always wonder how those elite schools will perform if the school bans tuition .Then we'll be able to tell if these schools have exceptional teachers with exceptional methodology or do these schools just have an exceptionally high percentage of students attending tuition and enrichment.
Will this ever become a reality in our lifetime? -
duplicate
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verykiasu2010:
cherryc:
I was told some teachers from good schools like nanyang pri go home earlier and happily. So maybe the school environment does breed good nurturing teachers and better students. And maybe the teachers have more time to prepare materials, all maybe after all, the kids are just rich enough to attend the elitist tuitions or have well-educated parents to teach them.
reminders : not all kids from NYPS are from wealthy background. many many of them are from humble background
I dare say NYPS has very good system and processes in place, there are master teachers, experienced and capable subject head, level head / driver, etc and I personally know some of the teachers were invited to share best practices at conferences.
They also have the follow through approach from pri 5 to 6, and fellow teachers do corroborate and share info
However, even if this were to be replicated in other schools, the devil is in the details. And how many principals will follow exactly the same approach ? same system ? same motivation ? ability to motivate and implement ?
Agreed.
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verykiasu2010:
cherryc:
I was told some teachers from good schools like nanyang pri go home earlier and happily. So maybe the school environment does breed good nurturing teachers and better students. And maybe the teachers have more time to prepare materials, all maybe after all, the kids are just rich enough to attend the elitist tuitions or have well-educated parents to teach them.
reminders : not all kids from NYPS are from wealthy background. many many of them are from humble background
I dare say NYPS has very good system and processes in place, there are master teachers, experienced and capable subject head, level head / driver, etc and I personally know some of the teachers were invited to share best practices at conferences.
They also have the follow through approach from pri 5 to 6, and fellow teachers do corroborate and share info
However, even if this were to be replicated in other schools, the devil is in the details. And how many principals will follow exactly the same approach ? same system ? same motivation ? ability to motivate and implement ?
If this is really the case, we really cannot fault parents who want to get into such schools by hook or by crook.
Can we then conclude that well-known schools ARE indeed equipped with better teachers and resources? -
Chenonceau:
There isn't an iron hand per se now which is leading to the inconsistency amongst the schools, no? The current strategies seems to be for the principals to draft their plans and proposals on what the school can achieve without the \"iron hand\" being involved. Is it helping? No.
Thanks for your nicely balanced post...
I think though... that ruling with an iron hand is not the only way to get product/service consistency... just like motivation can go way beyond bribes or threats (or pay and promotion). There are other strategies. But as long as people perceive that consistency = iron hand then they will not search for these other strategies... and nothing will improve.
For things to happen, something has to give. This is my take and could be wrong -> Principals set the KPIs to ensure the survival of the school if the school is not \"desirable\" and no one wants to enrol, wouldn't that lead to cuts and less facilities or eventually closure.
Take away the KPIs, how would one know if the school is performing or just cruising along? Then we have clans and church affiliated schools where it is not fully funded by the MOE. What happens there?
Teachers are overwhelmed with various forms of additional activities. Externally, there will be admin or communication team to organize such events , create more social activities as our society changes. Which I guess why the schools do rely quite a fair bit of Parent Support groups to aid in that area. Am clueless how the funds are segmented for schools but I think funds aren’t allocated to recruit additional staff for such things.
I love to see a lower ratio of students to 1 teacher but then again, Cut down no. of students in classroom size = more classrooms needed = more vertical/land space required = more teachers = $$$$$$ . Funds and space planning needs to be done.
Based on fees for estimated of 42k students (all Singaporeans) = $462,000 a month , divided amongst 185 schools? Each school would be an estimate of $2500 per school. Not even sure if this covers the electricity and water bill in the school. But the point across is how they would have to manage the cost involved to make it happen and it has to come from “somewhere” eventually.
:offtopic:
Side & off topic -> I do know the hoo ha about how much our tax we are paying but really, working mums themselves would know the actual tax we are paying. Am Referring to WMCR. Out of curiosity , googled how much SPR & foreigners and this is what I found -> http://www.singaporeedu.gov.sg/htm/mis/faq01.htm
preparing for :torchme: -
Kissgurami:
I am not sure I get your point leh... :scratchhead: All I said was that there are other strategies to ensure consistency. So, I am not following your analysis of costs. You think that these strategies will be costly is it? Some of these strategies can actually REDUCE costs.
There isn't an iron hand per se now which is leading to the inconsistency amongst the schools, no? The current strategies seems to be for the principals to draft their plans and proposals on what the school can achieve without the \"iron hand\" being involved. Is it helping? No.Chenonceau:
Thanks for your nicely balanced post...
I think though... that ruling with an iron hand is not the only way to get product/service consistency... just like motivation can go way beyond bribes or threats (or pay and promotion). There are other strategies. But as long as people perceive that consistency = iron hand then they will not search for these other strategies... and nothing will improve.
For things to happen, something has to give. This is my take and could be wrong -> Principals set the KPIs to ensure the survival of the school if the school is not \"desirable\" and no one wants to enrol, wouldn't that lead to cuts and less facilities or eventually closure.
Take away the KPIs, how would one know if the school is performing or just cruising along? Then we have clans and church affiliated schools where it is not fully funded by the MOE. What happens there?
Teachers are overwhelmed with various forms of additional activities. Externally, there will be admin or communication team to organize such events , create more social activities as our society changes. Which I guess why the schools do rely quite a fair bit of Parent Support groups to aid in that area. Am clueless how the funds are segmented for schools but I think funds aren’t allocated to recruit additional staff for such things.
I love to see a lower ratio of students to 1 teacher but then again, Cut down no. of students in classroom size = more classrooms needed = more vertical/land space required = more teachers = $$$$$$ . Funds and space planning needs to be done.
Based on fees for estimated of 42k students (all Singaporeans) = $462,000 a month , divided amongst 185 schools? Each school would be an estimate of $2500 per school. Not even sure if this covers the electricity and water bill in the school. But the point across is how they would have to manage the cost involved to make it happen and it has to come from “somewhere” eventually.
:offtopic:
Side & off topic -> I do know the hoo ha about how much our tax we are paying but really, working mums themselves would know the actual tax we are paying. Am Referring to WMCR. Out of curiosity , googled how much SPR & foreigners and this is what I found -> http://www.singaporeedu.gov.sg/htm/mis/faq01.htm
preparing for :torchme: