P2 Math - General Discussion
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YKVT, you asked your DD, i daren't even ask, confirm give me a blank look also :rotflmao:
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YKVT:
Haiz just ask my K2 DD this question (verbally). She got no idea what I am talking about. Stress!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe you could give her 4 red pens and 4 blue pens to play with. Tell her that she needs to put 4 pens ( can be red or blue ) into a pencil box. What are the different ways? You may need to show her one or two ways first: Example: 4 red and zero blue, 3 red and 1 blue.
Afterwhich, I am sure that she can tell you a few other ways. However she may not be able to list down ALL the ways. This is where you then have to guide her again to the more organised way of doing such question.
Just my sharing. Hope you dont mind. Have FUN
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phtthp:
Hi phtthp,regarding RRMummy's question on 'durian puff & cream puff' at P1 SA1 Paper 2,
Mother has baked some cream puffs and durian puffs. She wants to put 8 puffs into a box. In how many ways can she put the puffs in order to have at least one of each kind of puffs in the box?
- you may read Dr. Yeap Ban Har's reply :-
http://www.askyeapbanhar.blogspot.com/
Thank you for highlighting it here.. otherwise I would not have been aware of the comments. -
- you may read Dr. Yeap Ban Har's reply :-
http://www.askyeapbanhar.blogspot.com/
Wednesday, June 8, 2011
Durian Puffs
Here is a Primary problem which is from Primary 1 SA1 Paper 2 2011 from an unknown school.
Question:
Mother has baked some cream puffs and durian puffs. She wants to put 8 puffs into a box. In how many ways can she put the puffs in order to have at least one of each kind of puffs in the box?
Is this a problem that can be solved by the bar 'model' method or some other way? What is its test objective?
How to solve by the 'model' method, or whatever method? Sorry, but I find this problem at Primary 1 really very tough, leh!
A Mother in Singapore
I am really not sure if you have got it right but this may not be a Primary 1problem for these reasons:
(1) Schools generally no longer conducts SA1 at Primary 1 - that is the MOE guideline. Fornon-Singapore readers, SA1 is a semestral assessment after half a school year. It tends to be a written examination. MOE Singapore has suggested that children entering the first year of formal schooling should not be subjected to such assessment. Alternative assessment modes which may includes 'small' test at the end of units may be used.
(2) I have never heard of any school that has Paper 1 and Paper 2 in Primary 1. Paper 1 and paper 2 format tends to be for upper primary (P5 and P6) with Paper 2 allowing the use of calculators.
But it can be a Primary 1 problem because the content is from Chapter 2 (Number Bonds).
One way to solve the problem is to make a list - 1 cream puff + 7 durian puffs, 2 + 6, 3 + 5, 4 + 4, 5 + 3, 6 + 2, 7 + 1 (0 + 8 and 8 + 0 are out. You know why.). Thus there are 7 ways.
Bar model is not suitable. Rememmber that there are many ways to solve problems and model is only one such method. The objective of this item is to assess ability to solve an unusual problem.
Posted by Dr Yeap Ban Har at 7:41 AM 0 comments -
PiggyLalala:
True.
I think this question is very unclear. When I first read the question, I asked myself, how do I know how many cream puffs or durian puffs the mother has baked. If mother only bake 5 cream puffs and 5 durian puffs, the answer will be only 3 ways, that is, 5C and 3D, 4C and 4D, 3C and 5D.RRMummy:
The standard these days ah.. really :siao:
P1 SA1, Paper 2 2011.
Mother has baked some cream puffs and durian puffs. She wants to put 8 puffs into a box. In how many ways can she put the puffs in order to have at least one of each kind of puffs in the box?
:stompfeet:
Of course, if the child has exposed to such questions before, he should know that in such questions, we always assume that mother has baked more than 8 cream puffs and durian puffs to be placed in the box.
While this question does require some higher order thinking, it is based on concept taught. What is not right is the question is not very clearly framed.
I rephrased the question for my son as follows -(just verbally, while travelling on a bus.)
\"You have to pack some chocolates for your birthday goodybag, OK. We have one BIG box of milk chocolate and one BIG box of dark chocolate. Each goodybag should have 8 chocolates and just make sure it contains ATLEAST ONE milk chocolate and ONE dark chocolate. So how many different ways you can pack the goody bag? I just want the different ways, remember ah.\"
He thought aloud the possibilities and gave the answer within one min.
As this was done verbally, I stressed on the words in CAPs. And I made the context relevant to him. And these perhaps made the difference.
PS- he has no enrichments nor he do any extra stuff - just school's home work. -
RRMummy:
Hi Dr. Yeap,- you may read Dr. Yeap Ban Har's reply :-
http://www.askyeapbanhar.blogspot.com/
Wednesday, June 8, 2011
Durian Puffs
Here is a Primary problem which is from Primary 1 SA1 Paper 2 2011 from an unknown school.
Not sure if you have read my post or a little birdie tweeted into your ears... but if you are reading this then WELCOME to KSP.
Firstly,it is called Semestral Review 1, Mathematics, Part 2. My mistake for noting it as SA1 and Paper 2 as there Part 1 and Part 2 was taken a week a part. But call it what they will - SR1 or SA1, CA1 or mock test or whatever, we parents know that it is an exam with marks that will be 40% of the P1 finals. Yes, the dreaded SR2.
\"I am really not sure if you have got it right but this may not be a Primary 1problem\"
Unless I have been living in twilight zone, my DD is definitely in P1 in a school in Singapore! And I'm sure I got it right because besides my DD, 299 other students in Singapore got the exact same question on 12th May 2011. BTW, I also have the setter's name!
BTW, if you had read through the posts which I wrote, I did not say that a model approach will solve the problem. WE know that models does not solve all problems.
Test objective... I have a few guesses of my own but well, what is the point...
Sorry, but I find this problem at Primary 1 really very tough, leh!
:hi5: So yoou also thought so. Well, this is the kind of questions the 6 - 7 years old in some schools are subjected to.
so what do you suggest we parents do? BTW, do you have your own kids going through Primary education now? -
Sun_2010:
PS- he has no enrichments nor he do any extra stuff - just school's home work.
Hi Sun_2010,
My DD also same as your DS. No Maths enrichment whatsoever and just homework.
Of course if the questions were read to them, emphasized or rephrased it would have taken a whole new meaning but at last, this is an exam and no such privilege exist... -
Hi RRMummy ,
I definitely agree. That is why I said the below too.Sun_2010:
This is the flaw - that the question/context is lost in the language.
True. What is not right is the question is not very clearly framed.Sun_2010:
As this was done verbally, I stressed on the words in CAPs. And I made the context relevant to him. And these perhaps made the difference. -
Sun_2010:
Hi Sun_2010, yup I noted your agreements the first time round... hence in our case we wonder...testing Maths or English...Hi RRMummy ,
I definitely agree. That is why I said the below too.
I'm just wondering if setter's nowadays ever bring themselves to the correct level of developmental mindset before they put out a question...
aiyah.. I'm sounding like a broken-record...it is not like the questions are a matter of life and death.
But the underlining expectation of our kids by these so-called Educators... hmmm... I really wonder their rational... in their minds if 4 out of 30 people got it right, so it is a GOOD question... then so be it...
sorry for my ranting again.. :frustrated: -
For a P1 kid who is able to do this problem, I will say the kid has above average language ability. The math concept tested here is basic, number bonds within 10 which is well within what is taught in P1. But the way the question is phrased, takes one with a higher language development then one would expect of most P1 kids to tackle that question.
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