Any Updates As To When PSLE T-Scores Will Be Scrapped?

[jetsetter]

Veyron:

Will it be possible that future affiliation system will only give the student from affiliated school the priority when there is balloting instead of point advantage?

Fodder for thought there, Veyron. Specific stage in which the 3 tie-breakers are triggered for those applying to affiliated sec schools is still being deliberated apparently. While they've announced HCL will be given priority for admission, i.e. before the three “tie-breakers” of citizenship, choice order and balloting, nothing substantial's been reported on affiliation yet. Got this from Today:
[quote]\"Secondary schools with affiliated primary schools can continue to give priority to students from those schools. The MOE said it is reviewing the details and engaging affiliate schools before releasing more information.\"[/quote]http://www.post1.net/biow/, discounts granted by some affiliates could be as great as 40+ points, as compared to some schools, particularly the IP ones, offering as little as 10+ points. Look at the non-IP ones: St Margarets, St Andrews, ACS, FMSS, GMSS, SHSS, ACS, St Pat's, the IJ family... 188~200 for Express.

Would affiliated schools that currently offer a whopping 40+ point discount agree to having a one-size-fits-all and upfront 1- or 2-point deduction from MOE's simulated COP? And before the tie-breakers are triggered, similar to HCL's rules, or during the balloting stage?

Would a small cluster of non-IP mission schools prefer to grant higher AL point discounts to their pri affiliates? Mission schools historically have a diff mission and duty to fulfil. It's diff to tell them to forsake and cut off their brothers and sisters from the fraternity if they've hit AL20 points.

Anyway, I don't know how to convert T-score points to AL-points, so won't assume 1 AL bonus point = current 20 points or 15 or whatever. Would rather leave the conversion to professional statisticians on MOE's payroll to enlighten us in due course

[jetsetter]

Ikid:

How do the GEP students be affected by this change then? I understand some GEP students may be strong in Math & Science but weak in languages.

How will Geppers be affected? GEPpers fall under the first bucket (4~20 AL pts), like the rest of the so called top 10% SAP-qualifiers and Express MSr.

Anyway, most Geppers would have DSA-ed via their best domain before PSLE, so they are not really affected by this change. It's business as usual...I guess those who don't bother to DSA would eventually use their AL-score within this range like the MSrs to participate in s1 posting.

SAP stream is conspicuously missing from the table, if you haven't noticed. Not all SAP schools are IP schools (CCHS, MSHS, AHS, NCHS). Am sure MOE will work with them to convert their respective 2020 T-COPs into AL-COPs for students and parents to refer to come 2021.

[UBKmom]

SpartanMum:

UBKmom:

Why we need to abolish SAP schools? SAP schools play a very specific role in Singapore education due to historical and political reasons but I don't think it prohibit other races to study there because I did saw some other races at SAP schools. To me, it is just like another programme eg GEP, NUSH, SOTA, SST and run in a limited number of schools.

Ah UBKMom... Why abolish SAP schools? Why get rid of affliation? Why try and negate the concept of elite schools? There will always be reasons for wanting and keeping certain ways of doing things...that's the point I was trying to make. Very few situations in life are truly ideal and as you said political and historical reasons influence the way things are done.

By the way, didn't at all mean to offend any SAP school folks on this forum. Love my SAP alumni friends to bits. UKBMom is right - SAP schools DO NOT prohibit other races....I do believe though that they disallow taking any other languages other than Chinese. Friend of mine tried to her DC in and was very politely told sorry not possible. Oh and GEP, NUSH, SOTA, SST all take in students who take any MTL.

:offtopic: sincere apologies!

Hi, SpartanMum, I don't think SAP schools can be equate to elite school although HCI/NYGH may be considered as one but do you think abolishing the SAP school status will turn HCI/NYGH into a non-elite one? I doubt so.

[floppy]

hquek:

floppy:

You are right except that it is not a case of going to ABC secondary school and not the prestigious one.

You are talking about high scoring students going to the likes of Nanyang Girls or Cedar Girls (no offense to either school). Both schools will produce a student of a high caliber. So there's no difference apart from bragging rights to the parents relatives.

Me not from either school so not going to comment - both schools are good I'm sure.

I was in different JCs (first 3 months vs rest of JC life)...there WAS a difference in what the kids offered. In the 'more named' one, kids were offered S papers (H3), scholarship talks etc - basically all the information they could possibly want to study overseas and get scholarships; in the lesser one, such just weren't available, teachers had it up to their ears just trying to teach.

Sadly, there ARE differences in what the kids get exposed to, I believe that's why parents would aim for some schools as opposed to others.

Unfortunately the example you raised isn't remotely linked to the issue of ABC or prestigious school. Both JCs are still talking about going to universities - an institution that is not available to 60% of a cohort.

On exposure, I came from one those 2nd tier sec schools which would benefit from this spillover (and is benefitting from the distribution of ASEAN scholars now). In school, we don't talk about O levels. Discussion was about various universities option and the merits of the polytechnic and A level route (neither the diploma nor A level was seen as an ending point, and the O doesn't seem to exist). I think the same could be said of the top tier schools and other 2nd tier schools. The top tier schools, however, may spend more time on scholarship talks though. That said, the differences between such schools are subtle and within a small degree of differences. In the grand scheme, both top and 2nd tier are doing/offering students a platform that's vastly different from ABC Sec Sch.

[jetsetter]

pirate:

phtthp:

[quote=\"zephyrfei\"]I strongly suggest MOE to run simulation, start from 2016 PSLE. Request the students to hand in 6 choices of school. And later calculate the percentile of those got ballot out of all their 6 choices. Then compare his score to the highest score from the school he landed, and the lowest score from his choice. I believe the result will be shocking!

Yes, should start doing parallel run, starting with this year batch of 2016 P6 students, to provide vital info to public -

- What is the AL cut off point like, to enter each IP school, and also to enter all O level schools, including both O level and N level stream ?

- how many unlucky students are balloted out of popular IP schools, & out of popular O level schools ?

For these students balloted out : what are their AL score, like ?

- for the unlucky P6 students balloted out, in the end which secondary schools did they end up in, or get posted to ?

How great is the difference, in terms of AL score difference, between their last #6 choice, vs. The school that they got eventually posted to ?

- compare the before & after implementation results :
That is, under current T-score system and under the new AL score system :
Do the second Tier secondary schools, have a better quality of intake students Under AL vs. t-score ?


Start the rehearsal from 2016 until 2020 (for 5 years), so as to prepare parents and students mentally, for what is to come, in 2021.
See what kind of unexpected glitches or shocking results, may surface !

MOE already has the raw PSLE scores and secondary school selection choices of the current and previous batches of students. I seriously doubt that it took them years (how many again?) to come up with the AL bands etc without running those numbers through the computer to see what is the likely outcome.[/quote]I totally agree with pirate. I rem chatting with someone in this thread about the timeline required to source for, open tender, test out a new software in multiple phases in preparation for the new s1 posting exercise... :rotflmao: I suppose with this new tie breaker #3,, they need a longer lead time before they can roll it out confidently in 5 yrs time! Maybe they've already run several tests using the previous 10 years choice and posting patterns to come up with \"1 in 10 may require balloting\". :yikes:

Btw, I am not in favour of computerised balloting if the casualty figures are not low. Didn't I tell people to http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=85538&p=1667867&hilit=balloting#p1667867 :skeptical:

10% is a lot. Poor kids who get knocked out due to a55luck.

[phtthp]

jetsetter:

Am sure MOE will work with them to convert their respective 2020 T-COPs into AL-COPs for students and parents to refer to come 2021.

For a start, at least for pioneering batch, implementation year 2021 -
Moe should print out 2 column.

For each Secondary schools listed inside the S1 choosing of 6 schools booklet / instruction manual, issued to 2021 P6 students (born 2009, pioneering batch for AL) :
- first column : to show the new AL Cut-off Point requirement, for each Secondary schools' admission,

- second column (for reference only) : to show the equivalent T-score, calculated by MOE professional statisticians.


So that it gives parents & students an idea roughly, what is the new AL score equivalent to the T-score like, since many of us are familiar with T-score.

Subsequently as time go by, or after a few Psle batches after 2021, as more parents & P6 students getting more familiar with the new AL score, no need to show the T-score anymore.

[jetsetter]

phtthp:

jetsetter:

Am sure MOE will work with them to convert their respective 2020 T-COPs into AL-COPs for students and parents to refer to come 2021.

For a start, at least for pioneering batch, implementation year 2021 -
Moe should print out 2 column.

For each Secondary schools listed inside the S1 choosing of 6 schools booklet / instruction manual, issued to 2021 P6 students (born 2009, pioneering batch for AL) :
- first column : to show the new AL Cut-off Point requirement, for each Secondary schools' admission,

- second column (for reference only) : to show the equivalent T-score, calculated by MOE professional statisticians.


So that it gives parents & students an idea roughly, what is the new AL score equivalent to the T-score like, since many of us are familiar with T-score.

Subsequently as time go by, or after a few Psle batches after 2021, as more parents & P6 students getting more familiar with the new AL score, no need to show the T-score anymore.

Haha...so detailed. Ok...let the Ox and Tiger parents give their inputs... We have our own battles to fight... :siam:

[mum_sugoku]

pirate:

SpartanMum:

I believe the competition won't be in the category where the total points is 4 or less becos I believe there won't be that many of these. It will be likely in the 5-7 category that the competition to get into elite schools will be intense.

I am one of those who believe that spreading the high scoring students among more schools instead of having all of them crammed into a handful of so-called 'elite' schools is the right direction.

It certainly is in the right direction to spread high scoring students among more schools.. but.. will the new scoring system improve the \"spread\" significantly over the current one?

The new system is almost identical to the current 'O' level's scoring system, and the top 'O' level scorers are still cramming into the top 2, and the rest top JCs still unable to achieve the same 'glamour' as those 2.

In fact, I suspect it would make the elite more 'elite' than before: you'll need to be 4 pointers to be assured of a place in those schools, ie you'll need to score Al1 in all 4 subjects! Currently, if you are weaker in a particular subject (normally Chinese for Chinese students, I observe), you could make it up by getting good scores in the other 3. This is no longer possible under the new system, to get 4 points, one die die must also get >90 marks for his/her weakest subject.

The easiest way to achieve this is, of course, to get extra helps for the weakest subject, via tuition. And charges by those so-called high end tuition centres and 'top tutors' are not cheap, and not every parents could afford them.

So, under the new scoring system, I wouldn't be surprised if the elite schools get more students from more elite family background, making the elite schools more 'elite' than before.

[superkiasudad]

Have been observing the level of interest in this whole "AL scoring and balloting system" on display here in Kiasuparents. I mentioned to my son’s math tutor, Mr Zhou, that his centre should start offering a course on "Game Theory" for all the parents of this year’s cohort of primary 1 students. We had a good laugh at the absurdity of it.

[floppy]

superkiasudad:

After observing the level of interest in this whole AL grading on display here in Kiasuparents. I told my son's math tutor, Mr Zhou, that his centre should start offering a course on \"Game Theory\" for all the parents of this batch of primary 1 students. We had a good laugh at the absurdity of it.

Game Theory is in play, knowingly or unknowingly for most people, for most part of our lives.