Any Updates As To When PSLE T-Scores Will Be Scrapped?
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grimm:
I second your views. I was also from a primary school which affiliate into the secondary school. Most of the best students in our primary school would have left for better secondary schools after they got their psle results. And the not so good ones (i.e. the 80% +) will stay on and get affiliated to its secondary school.
Why can't you pick non-affiliated school then? I'm curious why are non-affiliated so keen to get into affiliated schools? The alumni are keen to send their children because they want their children to to have the same experience they did, tradition, good cultural fit etc.Blurryburger:
Can I add on to that
... Imagine a child who came from an affiliated pri school versus another. Same scores, same ability. Now imagine that MOE allowed an arbitrary discount (to be decided by the affiliated school), and the child that came from an affiliated primary school gets in without balloting while the other one would have to compete for fewer spots left (because well, there are these affiliated children ahead of her) so the odds are even worse for those children whose grandparents or great grandparents did not have the 20/20 foresight of enrolling their parents/grandparents into an affiliated primary school...
So the kid from the affiliated school probably escaped balloting at P1 registration and would escape balloting at secondary school... Anecdotally, parents (alumni or otherwise) hate balloting. But now, conceivably, only a select few would have immunity...
One must remember that in the cases where the affiliated schools give significant discount, the general academic standard in the school may not be as high as those schools who take students in purely based on academic results. So getting into an affiliated school does not mean your child is surrounded by high academic achievers or that they will do well for his O levels or whatever.
In truth, is the angst mostly because we are really talking about specific affiliated schools who are considered top X schools in Singapore? Or is everyone interested to enter the Band 7 and Band 8 affiliated secondary schools? (Sorry I don't know really how to rank secondary schools so I'm using 2011 banding by MOE)
Also, I will add that from personal experience (although it was a long time ago
), depending on their character and temperament, sometimes it doesn't work out well for the non-affiliated kids in terms of assimilation so it may not be easiest for a child going into his / her teenage years. I don't think the affiliated kids are mean but just that they have already formed their cliques from primary school and it may hard to break into those cliques.
Then brilliant students with much better psle scores than us join us in our secondary due to the high cut off points for the limited space. And they will be in the top few classes, mixed with affiliated students. These new students will likely form their own cliques with the other new students, coz it is really difficult for them to break into our 6 years strong cliques, where we are mostly from the same class from P1 to P6.
While I welcomed one of those new students into my clique, she didn't fit very well coz academically she was much stronger than us but we were a bunch of rowdy girls who didnt mind as we got used to each other. And I feel it wasn't the best place for her. In the end, she didn't do as well as I think she is capable of. -
floppy:
It's really not about the choice of RI. Scratch RI and replace that with another school-another band with the same scenario of being sandwiched between two bands...
Most of the time, it's much ado about nothing.grimm:
Easy, don't choose RI, don't have stress now or later
I get it that some people sees RI as their dream school and it's either RI or nothing. But take a step back and ponder, what is wrong with the alternate 5 point school aka 2nd choice? It's not exactly the end of the world yet we somehow make it seems like the poor child is heading to some backwater secondary school in a 3rd world nation. -
grimm:
It's not about a battle of whether non-affiliated primary school children should stay out of affiliated sec schools. In any case, shouldn't we try to work toward a culture of integration and be an inclusive society? I'm merely pointing out a potential immunity.
Why can't you pick non-affiliated school then? I'm curious why are non-affiliated so keen to get into affiliated schools? The alumni are keen to send their children because they want their children to to have the same experience they did, tradition, good cultural fit etc.
Imagine the tables are turned against the affiliated pri school children, that certain choices are barred because of school affiliation. Parents of children attending affiliated schools would be up in arms too. -
Blurryburger:
You are absolutely right !
Can I add on to thatIrrelevant:
Minister says: less than 10% of kids will face the ballot.
Since not all schools are created equal, not all schools require balloting. Imagine if just 20% of the schools (almost certainly the popular ones) require balloting, does than imply that 50% of all those applying for such schools would face balloting? Life become just a gamble? ... Imagine a child who came from an affiliated pri school versus another. Same scores, same ability. Now imagine that MOE allowed an arbitrary discount (to be decided by the affiliated school), and the child that came from an affiliated primary school gets in without balloting while the other one would have to compete for fewer spots left (because well, there are these affiliated children ahead of her) so the odds are even worse for those children whose grandparents or great grandparents did not have the 20/20 foresight of enrolling their parents/grandparents into an affiliated primary school...
So the kid from the affiliated school probably escaped balloting at P1 registration and would escape balloting at secondary school... Anecdotally, parents (alumni or otherwise) hate balloting. But now, conceivably, only a select few would have immunity...
As long as got balloting involved in popular Secondary schools, should do away with affliation.
All must ballot on equal LUCK, hence it is very unfair if affliated students are SPARED from balloting.
If everyone in the same AL band need to ballot in popular schools, then ALL must come in & ballot together. Not some privileged ones spared from balloting
Look at Primary 1 registration !
Do you see any children SPARED from balloting, while other children proceed with balloting, in Phase 2A1, 2A2, Phase 2B or 2C or 2C Supp ?
No !
If that particular Phase need to ballot :
Then, Every single child in that entire Phase MUST be involved in Balloting !
After all, didn't they say that it is ultimately your LUCK that decide whether child get balloted in, or out ?
Where got see some kids selected for balloting, while others no need to Ballot (very safe, very secure, no need to ballot at all) at Primary 1 registration balloting ?
Similarly, same thing apply to Secondary school admission balloting.
If AL (4 pointers or 5 pointers or 6 pointers, etc) common Pool or common Phase need to ballot, then ALL P6 students have to ballot, to try their luck, Yes including every single affliated student from the primary school, as well
Due to balloting involved in very popular affliated Secondary schools like ACS, CHIJ schools -
If whatever-number-of pointers common pool need to ballot, every single student INCLUDING affliated students, MUST come in & ballot your luck as well, inside the SAME AL Band !
Come !
Join in & try your LUCK, at balloting
Only when every single P6 student is involved in balloting in the same Band, only then can one say that \"Yes, Balloting IS fair, because EVERYONE in the SAME Band, have EQUAL chance, EQUAL opportunity, to try their luck\" -
Blurryburger:
The integration and inclusive argument is a can of worms that I am wary of opening. I mean, one can argue SAP schools are just as bad with regards to integration and inclusiveness. One can even argue the how much the parents spend on their children's education is a barrier to integration and inclusiveness.grimm:
It's not about a battle of whether non-affiliated primary school children should stay out of affiliated sec schools. In any case, shouldn't we try to work toward a culture of integration and be an inclusive society? I'm merely pointing out a potential immunity.
Imagine the tables are turned against the affiliated pri school children, that certain choices are barred because of school affiliation. Parents of children attending affiliated schools would be up in arms too.
Affiliation is one of those things that you are either for or not and it is neigh impossible to persuade either side to change their minds so I probably wouldn't post too much more on this.
End of the day, it is what MOE say it is, either way. I will not surprised if it will get removed one day. I will be sad if/when that happens because I think the affiliated schools will not be what they are once they lose that link across generations.
As for your last point - I speak only for myself but if the tables were turned and my son can only go to my alma mater and nowhere else, I'm pretty ok with that because that's the only place I want him to go, no matter how well he does. -
Blurryburger:
Is that significantly different to how it is nowadays? There is still an arbitrary discount decided by the affiliate school, two kids - child A (affiliated) t-score is 230 and gets into, say, SCGS. Child B (non affiliated) scores 250 and still has to compete with others for the limited spaces. Even if you take the balloting element out of it, there's still limited spaces for non affiliates, even if their abilities far outstrip those with affiliation. And even if the cop is, say, 250, not everyone with 250 will get in due to decimal places. Just replace decimals with balloting and it'll be essentially the same thing. What's the difference?
Can I add on to thatIrrelevant:
Minister says: less than 10% of kids will face the ballot.
Since not all schools are created equal, not all schools require balloting. Imagine if just 20% of the schools (almost certainly the popular ones) require balloting, does than imply that 50% of all those applying for such schools would face balloting? Life become just a gamble? ... Imagine a child who came from an affiliated pri school versus another. Same scores, same ability. Now imagine that MOE allowed an arbitrary discount (to be decided by the affiliated school), and the child that came from an affiliated primary school gets in without balloting while the other one would have to compete for fewer spots left (because well, there are these affiliated children ahead of her) so the odds are even worse for those children whose grandparents or great grandparents did not have the 20/20 foresight of enrolling their parents/grandparents into an affiliated primary school...
So the kid from the affiliated school probably escaped balloting at P1 registration and would escape balloting at secondary school... Anecdotally, parents (alumni or otherwise) hate balloting. But now, conceivably, only a select few would have immunity... -
pirate:
Which means you are no less deserving than my 4-pointer, since your academic performance is certainly on par, if not better than my 4-pointer's, correct?
Actually, maybe my 7 points better than your 4 points. I got 389 leh. :siam:
But, supposedly we have 4 schools sharing the same COP, being (7-4=) 3 points lower means you'll have (3x4=) 12 schools fewer to choose from than mine! :gloomy:
You think this is fair to you or not? -
phtthp:
You are absolutely right !
Can I add on to thatBlurryburger:
[quote=\"Irrelevant\"]Minister says: less than 10% of kids will face the ballot.
Since not all schools are created equal, not all schools require balloting. Imagine if just 20% of the schools (almost certainly the popular ones) require balloting, does than imply that 50% of all those applying for such schools would face balloting? Life become just a gamble? ... Imagine a child who came from an affiliated pri school versus another. Same scores, same ability. Now imagine that MOE allowed an arbitrary discount (to be decided by the affiliated school), and the child that came from an affiliated primary school gets in without balloting while the other one would have to compete for fewer spots left (because well, there are these affiliated children ahead of her) so the odds are even worse for those children whose grandparents or great grandparents did not have the 20/20 foresight of enrolling their parents/grandparents into an affiliated primary school...
So the kid from the affiliated school probably escaped balloting at P1 registration and would escape balloting at secondary school... Anecdotally, parents (alumni or otherwise) hate balloting. But now, conceivably, only a select few would have immunity...
As long as got balloting involved in popular Secondary schools, should do away with affliation.
All must ballot on equal LUCK, hence it is very unfair if affliated students are SPARED from balloting.
If everyone in the same AL band need to ballot in popular schools, then ALL must come in & ballot together. Not some privileged ones spared from balloting
Look at Primary 1 registration !
Do you see any children SPARED from balloting, while other children proceed with balloting, in Phase 2A1, 2A2, Phase 2B or 2C or 2C Supp ?
No !
If that particular Phase need to ballot :
Then, Every single child in that entire Phase MUST be involved in Balloting !
After all, didn't they say that it is ultimately your LUCK that decide whether child get balloted in, or out ?
Where got see some kids selected for balloting, while others no need to Ballot (very safe, very secure, no need to ballot at all) at Primary 1 registration balloting ?
Similarly, same thing apply to Secondary school admission balloting.
If AL (4 pointers or 5 pointers or 6 pointers, etc) common Pool or common Phase need to ballot, then ALL P6 students have to ballot, to try their luck, Yes including every single affliated student from the primary school, as well
Due to balloting involved in very popular affliated Secondary schools like ACS, CHIJ schools -
If whatever-number-of pointers common pool need to ballot, every single student INCLUDING affliated students, MUST come in & ballot your luck as well, inside the SAME AL Band !
Come !
Join in & try your LUCK, at balloting
Only when every single P6 student is involved in balloting in the same Band, only then can one say that \"Yes, Balloting IS fair, because EVERYONE in the SAME Band, have EQUAL chance, EQUAL opportunity, to try their luck\"[/quote]Wah....sure sound like toto to me..AL4pts-system 4....AL5points - system 5.....my guess is affiliation student will have discount points and priority if same point if place school as first choice.... -
Wider bands, deviant scenarios or overlaps are but ways for MOE to \"scramble\" the lobsters, abalones and king prawns via their broad AL grades. That's just http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=85538&p=1698493&hilit=whole+idea#p1698493. :evil:
Under the new system, a 4 pointer and many 'lucky' ones like him may find themselves being scrambled and posted to less sought-after IP schs, which is good because in the long run, it may take some 'pressure' off those Big 4 and the HA imports help to up tier-2 schs' ranking + enhance their prestige/ reputation. As we know, some top JCs of yesteryears like TJC, VJC and to a small extent, NJC, are no longer as appealing as RI/HCI to the top 5% cohort.
MOE wants pp to change their mindset and not be perversely obsessed with granularity; it wants to bring you back to the good old innocent times when 250-275 scorers (approx 5~8 AL pointers) didn't mind making do with one of the 9 SAP schools or even tier-1 Express schools in their neighbourhood.
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jetsetter:
Agreed! It is always good to distribute the top talents to more schools to close the gap with RI/HCI....anyway...is it that bad to go NJ, DHS, VS or any of the IP school instead of RI/HCI?....If you are top talents you will still shine through the crowds...it is the students who make the school to where it is and not the other way round, right?Wider bands, deviant scenarios or overlaps are but ways for MOE to \"scramble\" the lobsters, abalones and king prawns via their broad AL grades. That's just http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=85538&p=1698493&hilit=whole+idea#p1698493. :evil:
Under the new system, a 4 pointer and many 'lucky' ones like him may find themselves being scrambled and posted to less sought-after IP schs, which is good because in the long run, it may take some 'pressure' off those Big 4 and the HA imports help to up tier-2 schs' ranking + enhance their prestige/ reputation. As we know, some top JCs of yesteryears like TJC, VJC and to a small extent, NJC, are no longer as appealing as RI/HCI to the top 5% cohort.
MOE wants pp to change their mindset and not be perversely obsessed with granularity; it wants to bring you back to the good old innocent times when 250-275 scorers (approx 5~8 AL pointers) didn't mind making do with one of the 9 SAP schools or even tier-1 Express schools in their neighbourhood.
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