Any Updates As To When PSLE T-Scores Will Be Scrapped?

[phtthp]

Blurryburger:

Irrelevant:

Minister says: less than 10% of kids will face the ballot.


Since not all schools are created equal, not all schools require balloting. Imagine if just 20% of the schools (almost certainly the popular ones) require balloting, does than imply that 50% of all those applying for such schools would face balloting? Life become just a gamble?

Can I add on to that ... Imagine a child who came from an affiliated pri school versus another. Same scores, same ability. Now imagine that MOE allowed an arbitrary discount (to be decided by the affiliated school), and the child that came from an affiliated primary school gets in without balloting while the other one would have to compete for fewer spots left (because well, there are these affiliated children ahead of her) so the odds are even worse for those children whose grandparents or great grandparents did not have the 20/20 foresight of enrolling their parents/grandparents into an affiliated primary school...

So the kid from the affiliated school probably escaped balloting at P1 registration and would escape balloting at secondary school... Anecdotally, parents (alumni or otherwise) hate balloting. But now, conceivably, only a select few would have immunity...

You are absolutely right !

As long as got balloting involved in popular Secondary schools, should do away with affliation.

All must ballot on equal LUCK, hence it is very unfair if affliated students are SPARED from balloting.

If everyone in the same AL band need to ballot in popular schools, then ALL must come in & ballot together. Not some privileged ones spared from balloting

Look at Primary 1 registration !
Do you see any children SPARED from balloting, while other children proceed with balloting, in Phase 2A1, 2A2, Phase 2B or 2C or 2C Supp ?
No !
If that particular Phase need to ballot :
Then, Every single child in that entire Phase MUST be involved in Balloting !
After all, didn't they say that it is ultimately your LUCK that decide whether child get balloted in, or out ?
Where got see some kids selected for balloting, while others no need to Ballot (very safe, very secure, no need to ballot at all) at Primary 1 registration balloting ?

Similarly, same thing apply to Secondary school admission balloting.
If AL (4 pointers or 5 pointers or 6 pointers, etc) common Pool or common Phase need to ballot, then ALL P6 students have to ballot, to try their luck, Yes including every single affliated student from the primary school, as well

Due to balloting involved in very popular affliated Secondary schools like ACS, CHIJ schools -
If whatever-number-of pointers common pool need to ballot, every single student INCLUDING affliated students, MUST come in & ballot your luck as well, inside the SAME AL Band !

Come !
Join in & try your LUCK, at balloting

Only when every single P6 student is involved in balloting in the same Band, only then can one say that \"Yes, Balloting IS fair, because EVERYONE in the SAME Band, have EQUAL chance, EQUAL opportunity, to try their luck\"

[grimm]

Blurryburger:

grimm:

It's not about a battle of whether non-affiliated primary school children should stay out of affiliated sec schools. In any case, shouldn't we try to work toward a culture of integration and be an inclusive society? I'm merely pointing out a potential immunity.

Imagine the tables are turned against the affiliated pri school children, that certain choices are barred because of school affiliation. Parents of children attending affiliated schools would be up in arms too.

The integration and inclusive argument is a can of worms that I am wary of opening. I mean, one can argue SAP schools are just as bad with regards to integration and inclusiveness. One can even argue the how much the parents spend on their children's education is a barrier to integration and inclusiveness.

Affiliation is one of those things that you are either for or not and it is neigh impossible to persuade either side to change their minds so I probably wouldn't post too much more on this.

End of the day, it is what MOE say it is, either way. I will not surprised if it will get removed one day. I will be sad if/when that happens because I think the affiliated schools will not be what they are once they lose that link across generations.

As for your last point - I speak only for myself but if the tables were turned and my son can only go to my alma mater and nowhere else, I'm pretty ok with that because that's the only place I want him to go, no matter how well he does.

[Fried chicken]

Blurryburger:

Irrelevant:

Minister says: less than 10% of kids will face the ballot.


Since not all schools are created equal, not all schools require balloting. Imagine if just 20% of the schools (almost certainly the popular ones) require balloting, does than imply that 50% of all those applying for such schools would face balloting? Life become just a gamble?

Can I add on to that ... Imagine a child who came from an affiliated pri school versus another. Same scores, same ability. Now imagine that MOE allowed an arbitrary discount (to be decided by the affiliated school), and the child that came from an affiliated primary school gets in without balloting while the other one would have to compete for fewer spots left (because well, there are these affiliated children ahead of her) so the odds are even worse for those children whose grandparents or great grandparents did not have the 20/20 foresight of enrolling their parents/grandparents into an affiliated primary school...

So the kid from the affiliated school probably escaped balloting at P1 registration and would escape balloting at secondary school... Anecdotally, parents (alumni or otherwise) hate balloting. But now, conceivably, only a select few would have immunity...

Is that significantly different to how it is nowadays? There is still an arbitrary discount decided by the affiliate school, two kids - child A (affiliated) t-score is 230 and gets into, say, SCGS. Child B (non affiliated) scores 250 and still has to compete with others for the limited spaces. Even if you take the balloting element out of it, there's still limited spaces for non affiliates, even if their abilities far outstrip those with affiliation. And even if the cop is, say, 250, not everyone with 250 will get in due to decimal places. Just replace decimals with balloting and it'll be essentially the same thing. What's the difference?

[mum_sugoku]

pirate:

Actually, maybe my 7 points better than your 4 points. I got 389 leh. :siam:

Which means you are no less deserving than my 4-pointer, since your academic performance is certainly on par, if not better than my 4-pointer's, correct?

But, supposedly we have 4 schools sharing the same COP, being (7-4=) 3 points lower means you'll have (3x4=) 12 schools fewer to choose from than mine! :gloomy:

You think this is fair to you or not?

[UBKmom]

phtthp:

Blurryburger:

[quote=\"Irrelevant\"]Minister says: less than 10% of kids will face the ballot.


Since not all schools are created equal, not all schools require balloting. Imagine if just 20% of the schools (almost certainly the popular ones) require balloting, does than imply that 50% of all those applying for such schools would face balloting? Life become just a gamble?

Can I add on to that ... Imagine a child who came from an affiliated pri school versus another. Same scores, same ability. Now imagine that MOE allowed an arbitrary discount (to be decided by the affiliated school), and the child that came from an affiliated primary school gets in without balloting while the other one would have to compete for fewer spots left (because well, there are these affiliated children ahead of her) so the odds are even worse for those children whose grandparents or great grandparents did not have the 20/20 foresight of enrolling their parents/grandparents into an affiliated primary school...

So the kid from the affiliated school probably escaped balloting at P1 registration and would escape balloting at secondary school... Anecdotally, parents (alumni or otherwise) hate balloting. But now, conceivably, only a select few would have immunity...

You are absolutely right !

As long as got balloting involved in popular Secondary schools, should do away with affliation.

All must ballot on equal LUCK, hence it is very unfair if affliated students are SPARED from balloting.

If everyone in the same AL band need to ballot in popular schools, then ALL must come in & ballot together. Not some privileged ones spared from balloting

Look at Primary 1 registration !
Do you see any children SPARED from balloting, while other children proceed with balloting, in Phase 2A1, 2A2, Phase 2B or 2C or 2C Supp ?
No !
If that particular Phase need to ballot :
Then, Every single child in that entire Phase MUST be involved in Balloting !
After all, didn't they say that it is ultimately your LUCK that decide whether child get balloted in, or out ?
Where got see some kids selected for balloting, while others no need to Ballot (very safe, very secure, no need to ballot at all) at Primary 1 registration balloting ?

Similarly, same thing apply to Secondary school admission balloting.
If AL (4 pointers or 5 pointers or 6 pointers, etc) common Pool or common Phase need to ballot, then ALL P6 students have to ballot, to try their luck, Yes including every single affliated student from the primary school, as well

Due to balloting involved in very popular affliated Secondary schools like ACS, CHIJ schools -
If whatever-number-of pointers common pool need to ballot, every single student INCLUDING affliated students, MUST come in & ballot your luck as well, inside the SAME AL Band !

Come !
Join in & try your LUCK, at balloting

Only when every single P6 student is involved in balloting in the same Band, only then can one say that \"Yes, Balloting IS fair, because EVERYONE in the SAME Band, have EQUAL chance, EQUAL opportunity, to try their luck\"[/quote]Wah....sure sound like toto to me..AL4pts-system 4....AL5points - system 5.....my guess is affiliation student will have discount points and priority if same point if place school as first choice....

[jetsetter]

Wider bands, deviant scenarios or overlaps are but ways for MOE to \"scramble\" the lobsters, abalones and king prawns via their broad AL grades. That's just http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=85538&p=1698493&hilit=whole+idea#p1698493. :evil:


Under the new system, a 4 pointer and many 'lucky' ones like him may find themselves being scrambled and posted to less sought-after IP schs, which is good because in the long run, it may take some 'pressure' off those Big 4 and the HA imports help to up tier-2 schs' ranking + enhance their prestige/ reputation. As we know, some top JCs of yesteryears like TJC, VJC and to a small extent, NJC, are no longer as appealing as RI/HCI to the top 5% cohort.

MOE wants pp to change their mindset and not be perversely obsessed with granularity; it wants to bring you back to the good old innocent times when 250-275 scorers (approx 5~8 AL pointers) didn't mind making do with one of the 9 SAP schools or even tier-1 Express schools in their neighbourhood.

[UBKmom]

jetsetter:

Wider bands, deviant scenarios or overlaps are but ways for MOE to \"scramble\" the lobsters, abalones and king prawns via their broad AL grades. That's just http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=85538&p=1698493&hilit=whole+idea#p1698493. :evil:


Under the new system, a 4 pointer and many 'lucky' ones like him may find themselves being scrambled and posted to less sought-after IP schs, which is good because in the long run, it may take some 'pressure' off those Big 4 and the HA imports help to up tier-2 schs' ranking + enhance their prestige/ reputation. As we know, some top JCs of yesteryears like TJC, VJC and to a small extent, NJC, are no longer as appealing as RI/HCI to the top 5% cohort.

MOE wants pp to change their mindset and not be perversely obsessed with granularity; it wants to bring you back to the good old innocent times when 250-275 scorers (approx 5~8 AL pointers) didn't mind making do with one of the 9 SAP schools or even tier-1 Express schools in their neighbourhood.

Agreed! It is always good to distribute the top talents to more schools to close the gap with RI/HCI....anyway...is it that bad to go NJ, DHS, VS or any of the IP school instead of RI/HCI?....If you are top talents you will still shine through the crowds...it is the students who make the school to where it is and not the other way round, right?

[jetsetter]

phtthp:

zac's mum:

http://hedgehogcomms.blogspot.sg/2016/0 ... r.html?m=1

should remove the DSA academic domain, from 2021

makes no sense to let DSA academic domain still remain :
because a P6 student in 2021 who score Total (AL 4) for 4 subjects, is very good academically.

AL score itself :
already sieve out who are the academic all-founder, in 4 subjects.

Some kids from lower income families might cry foul, alleging they have no resources to learn this or that to compete with the affluent via non-acad domains.

If MOE thinks many people think like you, they might abolish this even before 2021 when they introduce those distinctive programmes in 2017. Be careful what you wish for...esp if your DC belongs to the pre-2021 group. :yikes: :nailbite:

[jetsetter]

pirate:

jetsetter:

Well, MOE needs to conduct more rigorous testings and simulations to minimise deviant scenarios of this sort.

So long as bands are used, there will always be deviant scenarios.

Makes me wonder why MOE didn't just add up all the raw scores, and then chop the total up into sorting bands instead. For example:

AL 1: >360 (equivalent to 4 points)
AL 2: 355 - 359.5 (equivalent to 5 points)
AL 3: 350 - 345.5 (equivalent to 6 points)
AL 4: 345 - 349.5 (equivalent to 7 points)
etc...

Maybe the idea is that it is preferable that the children work on what they are weak at, instead of trying to wring a few more points out of what they are already good at in order to make up for what they are weak at.

Then again, can always cap the number of points from each paper to 90 so that even if a student gets 91, 95 or even 100 marks for a paper, it only counts as 90.

Unfortunately, yes lor...

Haha...your bands are even wider, almost like back to your era when 389 sounds like it's 389 upon 400 raw marks! :rotflmao:

Agree that it's quite a good idea, since PSLE AL system isn't the same as L1R5 where O level students can pick their best subjects to create their own burger. PSLE only has 1 set menu. Maybe they want PSLE candidates to know how they've fared in each subject

Anyway, wrt 90 marks or 75 marks...I'm sure MOE will moderate behind the scenes lah. And I still suspect they go by percentiles. How can 91 marks in Hindi be the same as 85 marks in Chinese; can a linguist please tell me?

[lee_yl]

jetsetter:

Wider bands, deviant scenarios or overlaps are but ways for MOE to \"scramble\" the lobsters, abalones and king prawns via their broad AL grades. That's just http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=85538&p=1698493&hilit=whole+idea#p1698493. :evil:


Under the new system, a 4 pointer and many 'lucky' ones like him may find themselves being scrambled and posted to less sought-after IP schs, which is good because in the long run, it may take some 'pressure' off those Big 4 and the HA imports help to up tier-2 schs' ranking + enhance their prestige/ reputation. As we know, some top JCs of yesteryears like TJC, VJC and to a small extent, NJC, are no longer as appealing as RI/HCI to the top 5% cohort.

MOE wants pp to change their mindset and not be perversely obsessed with granularity; it wants to bring you back to the good old innocent times when 250-275 scorers (approx 5~8 AL pointers) didn't mind making do with one of the 9 SAP schools or even tier-1 Express schools in their neighbourhood.

I think this is more likely an unintended consequence as all the 4 pointers will still get either RI/HCI if they put it as their 1st choice. If the distribution of talents had been a desired outcome of the reform, MOE would have widened the AL1 band to 85 (or 80).

Another unintended consequence over time is that we are likely to see more Malays/Indians getting into RI as it is generally easier for them to score well for their MT.