Any Updates As To When PSLE T-Scores Will Be Scrapped?
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phtthp:
Some kids from lower income families might cry foul, alleging they have no resources to learn this or that to compete with the affluent via non-acad domains.zac's mum:
http://hedgehogcomms.blogspot.sg/2016/0 ... r.html?m=1
should remove the DSA academic domain, from 2021
makes no sense to let DSA academic domain still remain :
because a P6 student in 2021 who score Total (AL 4) for 4 subjects, is very good academically.
AL score itself :
already sieve out who are the academic all-founder, in 4 subjects.
If MOE thinks many people think like you, they might abolish this even before 2021 when they introduce those distinctive programmes in 2017. Be careful what you wish for...esp if your DC belongs to the pre-2021 group. :yikes: :nailbite:
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pirate:
Unfortunately, yes lor...
So long as bands are used, there will always be deviant scenarios.jetsetter:
Well, MOE needs to conduct more rigorous testings and simulations to minimise deviant scenarios of this sort.
Makes me wonder why MOE didn't just add up all the raw scores, and then chop the total up into sorting bands instead. For example:
AL 1: >360 (equivalent to 4 points)
AL 2: 355 - 359.5 (equivalent to 5 points)
AL 3: 350 - 345.5 (equivalent to 6 points)
AL 4: 345 - 349.5 (equivalent to 7 points)
etc...
Maybe the idea is that it is preferable that the children work on what they are weak at, instead of trying to wring a few more points out of what they are already good at in order to make up for what they are weak at.
Then again, can always cap the number of points from each paper to 90 so that even if a student gets 91, 95 or even 100 marks for a paper, it only counts as 90.
Haha...your bands are even wider, almost like back to your era when 389 sounds like it's 389 upon 400 raw marks! :rotflmao:
Agree that it's quite a good idea, since PSLE AL system isn't the same as L1R5 where O level students can pick their best subjects to create their own burger. PSLE only has 1 set menu. Maybe they want PSLE candidates to know how they've fared in each subject
Anyway, wrt 90 marks or 75 marks...I'm sure MOE will moderate behind the scenes lah. And I still suspect they go by percentiles. How can 91 marks in Hindi be the same as 85 marks in Chinese; can a linguist please tell me? -
jetsetter:
I think this is more likely an unintended consequence as all the 4 pointers will still get either RI/HCI if they put it as their 1st choice. If the distribution of talents had been a desired outcome of the reform, MOE would have widened the AL1 band to 85 (or 80).Wider bands, deviant scenarios or overlaps are but ways for MOE to \"scramble\" the lobsters, abalones and king prawns via their broad AL grades. That's just http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=85538&p=1698493&hilit=whole+idea#p1698493. :evil:
Under the new system, a 4 pointer and many 'lucky' ones like him may find themselves being scrambled and posted to less sought-after IP schs, which is good because in the long run, it may take some 'pressure' off those Big 4 and the HA imports help to up tier-2 schs' ranking + enhance their prestige/ reputation. As we know, some top JCs of yesteryears like TJC, VJC and to a small extent, NJC, are no longer as appealing as RI/HCI to the top 5% cohort.
MOE wants pp to change their mindset and not be perversely obsessed with granularity; it wants to bring you back to the good old innocent times when 250-275 scorers (approx 5~8 AL pointers) didn't mind making do with one of the 9 SAP schools or even tier-1 Express schools in their neighbourhood.
Another unintended consequence over time is that we are likely to see more Malays/Indians getting into RI as it is generally easier for them to score well for their MT. -
pirate:
Actually, maybe my 7 points better than your 4 points. I got 389 leh. :siam:mum_sugoku:
And the 5-pointer who poses this question to his 4-pointer friend may not be wrong after all :shock:
Supposedly, for PLSE, the 4-pointer's scores were E:90, M:90, S:90, MT:90, his total score would be 360 marks.
And if the 5-pointer's raw scores were E:92, M:100, S:99, MT:89, his total (raw) score would be 380 marks, a good 20 marks higher than his 4-pointer mate!
Let's say both had set their eyes on RI, the one with 360 marks (raw scores) will have no problem getting in, whereas the one with 380 marks will have to fight with other 5-pointers for a (slim?) chance to get in, or simply give up his dream of going there ..
And it's all because the 4-pointer had scored just 1 mark higher than his friend in that 1 single subject!
A scenario like this will never happen under our current t-score system; the 5-pointer, together with his 4-pointer friend, will have no problem getting into RI. :imcool:
pirate: your score was a transformed score that was used for s1 posting purpose. It wasn't your raw score then. T-score was introduced in 1973 but wasn't made public on candidates' result slips until 1979. From 1979-1984, it was in the 300~400 range. The current more sophisticated T-score, i.e. Express 200~300 range, came about only in 1985.
mum_sugoku: I realise that Mr Chee's piece appeared on Today's Forum page (2 days ago?), so that means MOE is obliged to reply within the next few days. Let's see what they have to say wrt such deviant scenarios! :rotflmao: -
lee_yl:
Yes, but I was told MOE would moderate to ensure fairness under the current system, so I hope they will not take the raw marks as-is under the new system.
I think this is more likely an unintended consequence as all the 4 pointers will still get either RI/HCI if they put it as their 1st choice. If the distribution of talents had been a desired outcome of the reform, MOE would have widened the AL1 band to 85 (or 80).jetsetter:
Wider bands, deviant scenarios or overlaps are but ways for MOE to \"scramble\" the lobsters, abalones and king prawns via their broad AL grades. That's just http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=85538&p=1698493&hilit=whole+idea#p1698493. :evil:
Under the new system, a 4 pointer and many 'lucky' ones like him may find themselves being scrambled and posted to less sought-after IP schs, which is good because in the long run, it may take some 'pressure' off those Big 4 and the HA imports help to up tier-2 schs' ranking + enhance their prestige/ reputation. As we know, some top JCs of yesteryears like TJC, VJC and to a small extent, NJC, are no longer as appealing as RI/HCI to the top 5% cohort.
MOE wants pp to change their mindset and not be perversely obsessed with granularity; it wants to bring you back to the good old innocent times when 250-275 scorers (approx 5~8 AL pointers) didn't mind making do with one of the 9 SAP schools or even tier-1 Express schools in their neighbourhood.
Another unintended consequence over time is that we are likely to see more Malays/Indians getting into RI as it is generally easier for them to score well for their MT.
On a side note, I never understood why people marched to Hong Lim Park in 2010 in protest against what I saw was to our advantage! :slapshead: Maybe those parents had kids who were weak in Math and Science, so they needed a good MTL score to help pull up their overall T-score? Another group could be the new immigrants who are obviously very strong in CL and Hindi. Anyway, no ed minister would dare to dabble with the MTL weightage going forward, after what happened to NEH! -
Monica Lim's post is worth a read.
http://hedgehogcomms.blogspot.sg/2016/0 ... s-for.html
When I read this part regarding the balloting as a tie breaker
To me, that's like MOE subtly giving kiasu parents the middle finger. You see, I can just imagine how vexed MOE must feel, that every time they try to introduce a different initiative to create a more holistic system or level the playing field, some parents will find innovative and extreme ways to game the system. Take DSA, IP, niche schools, etc. By introducing balloting, getting into the school of your choice could come down to pure, dumb luck. Hah! Try getting around that! -
jetsetter:
I think it's the culture defenders than parents
On a side note, I never understood why people marched to Hong Lim Park in 2010 in protest against what I saw was to our advantage! :slapshead: Maybe those parents had kids who were weak in Math and Science, so they needed a good MTL score to help pull up their overall T-score? Another group could be the new immigrants who are obviously very strong in CL and Hindi. Anyway, no ed minister would dare to dabble with the MTL weightage going forward, after what happened to NEH!
They fear any reduction in weightage MTL will erode their culture and language which is probably understandable but they forget that culture evolves and that their culture cannot be wholly applied to another person, just because they tick the same Chinese / Malay / Indian box.
Which is why I said making MTL optional will never happen - I dare any MP of any party to bring it up and commit political suicide. Well at least there is an option to take it a Foundation level. -
Straits Times report -
Concern over affliation priority by many parents, getting diluted -
not so generous as before, like >40 points discount in some affliated mission schools (become history), when AL Banding takes over T-score control (2021)
http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/e ... l-priority
And what parents on Straits Times Facebook, say or react -
https://m.facebook.com/TheStraitsTimes/ ... 6621647115 -
So we will have some lucky 4 pointers who can get into IP school straight through to the 2 most coveted JCs and some unlucky 4 pointers going to unknown secondary schools doing O levels or ALL 4 pointers guaranteed some IP straight through programmes sch ?
If MOE really wants to mix the top students let everyone has equal chance to go to the top JCs at the end of Sec 4. -
jetsetter:
Actually, maybe my 7 points better than your 4 points. I got 389 leh. :siam:pirate:
[quote=\"mum_sugoku\"]
And the 5-pointer who poses this question to his 4-pointer friend may not be wrong after all :shock:
Supposedly, for PLSE, the 4-pointer's scores were E:90, M:90, S:90, MT:90, his total score would be 360 marks.
And if the 5-pointer's raw scores were E:92, M:100, S:99, MT:89, his total (raw) score would be 380 marks, a good 20 marks higher than his 4-pointer mate!
Let's say both had set their eyes on RI, the one with 360 marks (raw scores) will have no problem getting in, whereas the one with 380 marks will have to fight with other 5-pointers for a (slim?) chance to get in, or simply give up his dream of going there ..
And it's all because the 4-pointer had scored just 1 mark higher than his friend in that 1 single subject!
A scenario like this will never happen under our current t-score system; the 5-pointer, together with his 4-pointer friend, will have no problem getting into RI. :imcool:
pirate: your score was a transformed score that was used for s1 posting purpose. It wasn't your raw score then. T-score was introduced in 1973 but wasn't made public on candidates' result slips until 1979. From 1979-1984, it was in the 300~400 range. The current more sophisticated T-score, i.e. Express 200~300 range, came about only in 1985.
mum_sugoku: I realise that Mr Chee's piece appeared on Today's Forum page (2 days ago?), so that means MOE is obliged to reply within the next few days. Let's see what they have to say wrt such deviant scenarios! :rotflmao:[/quote]My '389' only pulling the legs of those 'my 5 points better than your 4 points' kiasu parents lah. Why you take anything pirate say seriously?
Actually, 389 raw marks cannot be 7. But 379 (100, 100, 100, 79) theoretically can. Ok, ok getting 100 for either English or MTL is a bit crazy, so how about 375 (100, 100, 96, 79)? Still a full 15 raw marks more than that 360 scoring 4 pointer if one goes by that argument. :imanangel:
So, why stop at 'my 5 points better than your 4 points' when one can go the whole hog and say 'my 7 points better than your 4 points'?
Then again, it is a heck of a good way to spread some high scorers all the way to the 7 point or even 8 point schools. :evil:
PS. I don't think the range was 300~400. I remember having one 'crazy' classmate who got 416. :faint:
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