PSLE 2009 RESULTS!!

[VitoRelax]

atutor2001:

The booklet is correct in stating that \"placement of school will be by MERIT BEFORE CHOICE\". Only problem is that it did not address the issue of a \"tie at the COP where the number of students with the same COP score being greater than the number of vacancies left\". Maybe Full-Cream is correct; if the number is not too big, I am sure the school can absorbed the extra students.

Just kay poh and checked my kids' PSLE result slips and there was no mention of mark range for A*. However, the school's report book did put in print that A* is \"91 marks or more\". As for PSLE, my guess is that it is \"91 marks or more after moderation to the raw score.\"

I have just spoken to the MOE officer. She assured me that in their history, they have never come across a case where 2 students having identical score choosing the same school.

To bring the argument further, what if the 2 students with same identical score both put River Valley High as 2nd Choice & there is only one place left ? Who gets the place ?
[quote]Interesting that you know where I am coming from. Care to share?[/quote]Sorry, I am referring to \"I know\" which angle you \"coming from\" with regards to the point of discussion and not which area you are living in. Sorry for the misunderstanding ....

[Full.010894Cream]

Just curious.


For affiliated schools, do they go by points or %?

Eg, for ‘by point’, anyone from affiliated schools who has higher than 220 will be admitted. The remaining seats will be opened to those from outsider who applied.

‘by %’, the school ‘reserves’, say, 50% of seats for their affiliated schools (assume based on past records the points will fall within 210~230). The rest free-for-all!

Any idea?

[xxjustakidxx]

I’m the most stressful one around here.

My school has a consistent history of 27+ top scorers.
I’ve been wanting to beat my school record of 276, since P3.
My school’s a neighbourhood school, NTPS.
During results release, I got 257.
I cried, and people beside me laughed, hysterically, because I wasn’t qualified to go to schools like RI and Dunman anymore, which I was confident of.
I was the top in school, but a disgraceful top.
I feel overshadowed by all my seniors and feel that I’ve disgraced my school.
I canceled two schools off my list, and unwillingly added another two non IP schools.
People even think I am proud, and I am crying tears of joy.
Worst case?

[daisyt]

xxjustakidxx:

I'm the most stressful one around here.

My school has a consistent history of 27+ top scorers.
I've been wanting to beat my school record of 276, since P3.
My school's a neighbourhood school, NTPS.
During results release, I got 257.
I cried, and people beside me laughed, hysterically, because I wasn't qualified to go to schools like RI and Dunman anymore, which I was confident of.
I was the top in school, but a disgraceful top.
I feel overshadowed by all my seniors and feel that I've disgraced my school.
I canceled two schools off my list, and unwillingly added another two non IP schools.
People even think I am proud, and I am crying tears of joy.
Worst case?

hi xxjustakidxx, 257 is a good score, don't need to feel disgrace. In all kinds of exam, there are many X factors in it and some are beyond your control and awareness. You are cancelling two schools off your list, but don't forget, there are still so many options for you. If you are really so persistance to go RI or Dunman, do extremely well in your Sec 1, get all the A1s and you still stand a chance to transfer to your \"preferred\" school in year 2. But who knows, after spending 1 year in your posting school, you might love it so much that you do not wish to transfer. You might meet many wonderful friends and teachers, with a good CCA of your choice. Then you would forget about your \"preferred\" school. I fully understand your feeling because my daughter was like that. But now, she is so happy with the posting school and life is beautiful for her.

I don't think you are in the worst case because definately in some part of the world, there are always others worse than you.

[atutor2001]

VitoRelax:

I have just spoken to the MOE officer. She assured me that in their history, they have never come across a case where 2 students having identical score choosing the same school.

To bring the argument further, what if the 2 students with same identical score both put River Valley High as 2nd Choice & there is only one place left ? Who gets the place ?

I would agree with the MOE officer except for students with T-score range of 240 to 265.

For aggregates above 265, the child's chance of getting into the 1st choice is quite safe.

For aggregates lower than 240, I think a key consideration is location of school i.e. convenience, near to home. So chances of a few students with same T-score having same choice of school at the COP is also very slim because the school choices will be spread out - by location.

However, for the 240 to 265 range, most parents would want the child to go the best school possible, regardless of the distance/location. So the chance of a few students with same school choice and same T-score is higher because the school choices will converge to a small group of schools. However, the number would not be big (definitely less than 10) and I believe the programme will allocate placement to all of them to the same school (i.e. RV in your case) so that the integrity of the definition of COP is still intact. The size of a school intake is actually not \"rigid\". There should be a buffer of at least + or - 10 pupils.

[carebear]

xxjustakidxx:

I'm the most stressful one around here.

My school has a consistent history of 27+ top scorers.
I've been wanting to beat my school record of 276, since P3.
My school's a neighbourhood school, NTPS.
During results release, I got 257.
I cried, and people beside me laughed, hysterically, because I wasn't qualified to go to schools like RI and Dunman anymore, which I was confident of.
I was the top in school, but a disgraceful top.
I feel overshadowed by all my seniors and feel that I've disgraced my school.
I canceled two schools off my list, and unwillingly added another two non IP schools.
People even think I am proud, and I am crying tears of joy.
Worst case?

Hi xxjustakidxx, i know how you feel.
But there is no such thing as disgrace the school.
If anything, your score would have enhanced the overall score!
Although we should strive for the best results, it may be comforting to know that academic excellence does not equal financial success.

[Muffins]

carebear:

xxjustakidxx:

I'm the most stressful one around here.

My school has a consistent history of 27+ top scorers.
I've been wanting to beat my school record of 276, since P3.
My school's a neighbourhood school, NTPS.
During results release, I got 257.
I cried, and people beside me laughed, hysterically, because I wasn't qualified to go to schools like RI and Dunman anymore, which I was confident of.
I was the top in school, but a disgraceful top.
I feel overshadowed by all my seniors and feel that I've disgraced my school.
I canceled two schools off my list, and unwillingly added another two non IP schools.
People even think I am proud, and I am crying tears of joy.
Worst case?

Hi xxjustakidxx, i know how you feel.
But there is no such thing as disgrace the school.
If anything, your score would have enhanced the overall score!
Although we should strive for the best results, it may be comforting to know that academic excellence does not equal financial success.

Well said, carebear! xxjustakidxx, you haven't let anyone down. Actually, by coming top in your school, you have raised your school's prestige, and even though you didn't get into an IP school, you could still get into an excellent neighbourhood school e.g. In the National Science Challenge 2009, Bukit Panjang beat RI and ACS(I) to get the trophy. They're not the top school, neither are they an IP school, but they are capable of beating the top school to win, just like you, xxjustakidxx. So don't feel bad about yourself, but feel happy that you are the top student, and a good student.

[MMM]

xxjustakidxx:

I'm the most stressful one around here.

My school has a consistent history of 27+ top scorers.
I've been wanting to beat my school record of 276, since P3.
My school's a neighbourhood school, NTPS.
During results release, I got 257.
I cried, and people beside me laughed, hysterically, because I wasn't qualified to go to schools like RI and Dunman anymore, which I was confident of.
I was the top in school, but a disgraceful top.
I feel overshadowed by all my seniors and feel that I've disgraced my school.
I canceled two schools off my list, and unwillingly added another two non IP schools.
People even think I am proud, and I am crying tears of joy.
Worst case?

Hi,

Don't be too harsh on yourself. In life, there are bounds to be disappointment and the key thing is to be able to stand up again. So don't let this affect this, you've a long journey ahead. For all you know, with your determination you can do your secondary school proud during \"O\" levels. This is life experience so it's a good learning for you too. Take it positively.

[lizawa]

atutor2001:

VitoRelax:

I have just spoken to the MOE officer. She assured me that in their history, they have never come across a case where 2 students having identical score choosing the same school.

To bring the argument further, what if the 2 students with same identical score both put River Valley High as 2nd Choice & there is only one place left ? Who gets the place ?

I would agree with the MOE officer except for students with T-score range of 240 to 265.

For aggregates above 265, the child's chance of getting into the 1st choice is quite safe.

For aggregates lower than 240, I think a key consideration is location of school i.e. convenience, near to home. So chances of a few students with same T-score having same choice of school at the COP is also very slim because the school choices will be spread out - by location.

However, for the 240 to 265 range, most parents would want the child to go the best school possible, regardless of the distance/location. So the chance of a few students with same school choice and same T-score is higher because the school choices will converge to a small group of schools. However, the number would not be big (definitely less than 10) and I believe the programme will allocate placement to all of them to the same school (i.e. RV in your case) so that the integrity of the definition of COP is still intact. The size of a school intake is actually not \"rigid\". There should be a buffer of at least + or - 10 pupils.

I was told that there are 'decimal points' to the t-score that we do not get to see on the result slip. So if there are 2 person with 262, and 1 place left, they look at the decimal point to differentiate. If still the same, they look at other differentiating factor, including HMT, even though the school may not be a SAP school.

[Way2GO]

atutor2001:

atutor2001:

[quote=\"parentof3\"]
I think it's not like that. If ah beng is 230.11111 and ah seng is 230.2333, ah seng will get to choose first. Nobody will have the exact score ie 230.000. So ah seng 1st choice SSS if COP is 230, ah seng will be given SSS. When ah beng turn, he'll get 3rd choice since ah seng got the last seat for SSS.

Some mathematical questions to consider :

Question 1 (True or False)
The T-score is computed by computer, which can generate to many decimal places. As a result, it is impossible for 2 students to have exactly the same T-score.

Answer : FALSE

Question 2 (True or False)
Even if the answer for question 1 is \"False\", the chance of it happening is very very slim because the number of decimal places used for the comparison is so large.

Answer : FALSE

Question 3
Support your answers to Q1 & Q2 with mathematical concepts or theories.

Answer to support Q1:
a. The calculation of the T-score is dependent on the \"national average (NA)\", \"standard deviation (SD) and the student's actual score.
b. The NA and SD are \"Constant\" (fixed number) derived from overall results and will not change.
c. Therefore, a student's T-score depends only on his \"actual score\" for each subject
d. Two students with exactly the same \"actual score\" for all 4 subjects will have exactly the same T-score, regardless of the number of decimal places generated. For example, if both student A & B get 70 for math, 65 for science, 80 for English and 76 for Chinese, their T-score will be exactly the same.

Answer to support Q2:
a. There are over 48,000 students taking the PSLE
b. The \"degree of accuracy\" of the marking scheme for the papers is 0.5 marks. That is, the \"finest\" incremental change in mark is 0.5 (1/2 mark)
c. The intelligence of the huge group of mid-range students are quite similar.
d. With such a huge population size of over 48,000, it is quite probable for more than 2 students to get exactly the same combination of marks for the 4 subjects and their T-score will be the same.

Question 4
All Answers from helplines are true.

Answer 4:
\"Cannot Tell\" Depends on your luck on who receives your call.

[/quote]Following atutor2001, vitorelax & fullcream's discussion, this is my take on the matter:
1. Atutor2001's analysis (above) makes good sense. For a population size of > 48,500 PSLE students, there are very likely clusters of similar T scores in certain bands of T scores given that the NA and SD are constants across the whole cohort and the only variance is the raw scores.
2. Selection is based on merit over choice but subjected to vacancies availability.

Since MOE tries to have a fair and transparent system of selection, how then does MOE deals with such cases where the T scores are similar but there are limited vancancies in the school of choice?
The system is not that all transparent in that MOE does not publicly reveal:
i). The decimal points in the T scores (someone has mentioned six but MOE says it is confidential).
ii) The way papers are marked. Is it 1/4 or 1/2 point incremental change? This will make a difference to the decimal points. In case of a tie, do the examiners fine comb through the individual papers to determine the small difference or would this really be worth the trouble?
iii) Some schools do not reveal the exact total S1 intake to afford some flexibility.

Therein lies the answer. MOE is silent on these details so that in cases of ties, it can exercise its discretion but this discretion will be exercised fairly to all.