Are you ready for 7 million people on tiny Singapore?

[ngl2010]

daddy2007:

limlim:

[quote=\"ponyo\"]

know of people around me (PR colleagues) circumventing that rule by locking up 1 room (so they are \"not\" renting out whole unit) and stay in private condo or at their own home in JB...

We shd do our duty as vigilance citizens and report to HDB/authorities for the sake of fellow countryman hunting for a flat.. these foreigners are driving up the flat prices..

HDB will have a way to investigate against those who flout the rules.

HDB should setup a department like those traffic wardens (for illegal parking) and will keep spot check those renting unit every night.[/quote]Good idea! :goodpost:

[sunflower]

pirate:

Yeap. It's never as simple as what both sides of the argument make it out to be. On this, I am more on the side of let's just let the market sort out what to keep and what to lose. Which is basically what the government did when it cut the ratio across the board.

And that is why this population thingey is not as straightforward as what the \"we don't want so many people in Singapore\" side says. Me? I am more concerned with the heartware issue. I have confidence our government can sort out the infrastructure side when it puts its mind to it.

Agree! It's the heartware issue that worries me more...

[sunflower]

3Boys:

hercules:

[quote=\"3Boys\"]
I actually have a bit of a hard time figuring out the intent of the release of this document. They are making some major geographical and infrastructure interventions, and maybe they are preparing the ground for that?

Many just dont trust the government anymore. The general public reaction towards this White Paper reflects this distrust to the max. PAP really needs to do something to this distrust before it becomes bad to worst. I am not totally pro WP or pro PAP but this population issue tends to swing me towards voting anyone but PAP which is worrying as I believe many maybe similar to me.

My take is the number will be compromised to around '6 million' at the end. Government will say, \"I listened to you and I did give in to a certain extent hor.\"

You know, I'm not cynical about their intentions. The MIW crafting these policies will unlikely personally benefit much from it, as they will be deep into their 70s/80s by the time it comes around. Also, as you can see, the potential 'new' citizens can be quite an unruly lot, unlike us docile SGreans

So there is perhaps a drive to map out what the future Singapore should look like, from the MIW point of view, and start making the necessary infrastructure adjustments. That's where I eventually landed on this, that they are preparing for what we may need to be, and these are then changes we are going to start acting on.

Because it is strange to see a 'statement' that we 'need' to be at 6.9 million in 2030, because there is just no way we can be so precise. And honestly, I don't see that they are trying to work to that number at all.[/quote]My conjecture is that after forecasting and calculating an acceptable GDP growth, and taking into account our current population growth and extrapolating it, by 2030, we NEED that population number in order to achieve target.

BTW, TCH did sort of explain how they came out with the population figure, as quoted below.

Mr Teo said: \"Going forward, we want to make sure that the roadmap that we have is an appropriate one, and if we focus on those key issues, making sure that we have enough young Singaporeans, a population structure that can provide for our seniors.

\"Second, that we have an economic structure that will provide for good jobs that an increasingly better educated Singaporean population wants. And we can provide a high quality living environment.

\"I think if we can do these three, then we look at the population number and the population we need to achieve these three objectives and that's the way we looked at it.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1250894/1/.html

[ngl2010]

After 6.9 million in 2030, how many millions would we need in 2060? 9 million? When will it stop?


How to make govt listen that we don't want this ponzi scheme? Petition (please don't say elect WP because we all agree that they are not ready to be the govt)? I am very pessimistic that they will listen to us because they usually carry out their plan regardless of the ground sentiments (please correct me if I am wrong). Really feel hopeless now :sad:

Btw, I think last year the govt also said that they will increase income tax. Not now but in the future. Life is going to be very very tough....

[sinoboy]

ngl2010:

After 6.9 million in 2030, how many millions would we need in 2060? 9 million? When will it stop?


How to make govt listen that we don't want this ponzi scheme? Petition (please don't say elect WP because we all agree that they are not ready to be the govt)? I am very pessimistic that they will listen to us because they usually carry out their plan regardless of the ground sentiments (please correct me if I am wrong). Really feel hopeless now :sad:

Btw, I think last year the govt also said that they will increase income tax. Not now but in the future. Life is going to be very very tough....

Nobody knows what will happen in 2060, 2030 or even 2020. Maybe we can't even hit 6 million people by 2030 or maybe people left behind is less than 6 million people. Since you think it's like a ponzi then let the future govt worry about the problem. Why worry that life is going to tough as if it is not tough now? What can you do to change things? Since I believe there is nothing much you can do, I suggest enjoy the Singapore now while you can. Climb some hills, go some beaches for a swim or walk under some bridges before people starts living in these places.

[Irrelevant]

I think it is embarrassing for him to announce that he is a PhD student.


But then again, standards in Australia aren't that vigorous wor......

sunflower:

raysusan:

[quote]Dear All,

I am PhD research student majoring in Economics and finance.

I am writing this as simply as I can. I am writing to all Singaporeans, as a Singaporean myself not to fall for this utterly disgraceful and poorly written amateurish script called the Population Growth 2030 White Paper released by Singapore Govt............

http://therealsingapore.com/content/it%E2%80%99s-propaganda-paper-disguised-white-paper

what you guys think?

Actually, I concur with the writer that the white paper is actually propaganda to convince us.[/quote]

[Irrelevant]

ngl2010:

Btw, I think last year the govt also said that they will increase income tax. Not now but in the future. Life is going to be very very tough....

Now then you realise? [Sorry ah, sarcasm is in my blood.]

Every time opposition open their mouths to government = please spend more.

Every time government lose share of votes = spend more to buy back votes.

See where the inevitable conclusion is? Exactly, a race to buy votes.

Incidentally, we do not have a monopoly on this phenomenon. Just ask Uncle Sam.


“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville

[pirate]

ngl2010:

How to make govt listen that we don't want this ponzi scheme? Petition (please don't say elect WP because we all agree that they are not ready to be the govt)? I am very pessimistic that they will listen to us because they usually carry out their plan regardless of the ground sentiments (please correct me if I am wrong). Really feel hopeless now :sad:

Don't just say what you don't want. Say what you want. Then think about the costs of what you want. After that, decide again whether you still want it.

[Just relax]

I think the reaction to the White Paper is the knee jerk reaction to Singaporean’s unhappiness with FT in general. The Govt. has miscalculated ground sentiment on this issue and has not done a good job to differentiate between SC and PR. It’s lax policy of allowing PRs to become SCs easily has also devalued being a SC.


Govt. is now trying to change course and has promised tighter control but before can implement controls snd SHOW results the White Paper comes out and again Govt. seems desperate to have many FTs as possible.

Poor timing by Govt. which shows poor reading of ground sentiment. For Singapore-born SCs who love their country it appears that Govt. is taking them for granted. White Paper may be right in its numbers and are produced by bureaucrats who work with numbers and cold, hard reality of life but politicians must learn to translate cold hard reality into digestible news for the people. Govt. has hardware and software but lacks heartware! I hope Govt. realizes this early enough otherwise people will vote opposition for the wrong reasons and when opposition itself is not ready to lead the country. Then there will be confusion.

I think part of the problem is PAP does not want charismatic politicians for fear of undue influence over people. Look at US, Barack Obama is so ill-prepared to lead a country with zero CEO or Governor experience (Senator experience is even worse than our own MP’s experience!) yet he got elected. The difference is that US is too big and strong to be affected by 1 individual, but Singapore is different.

So PAP has technocrats and nobody with charisma to fire up the passions of people and deliver news and policies that people can understand and accept. Opposition is also in the same boat except for LTK, but he can only fire up Chinese-speaking base not the English-educated base.

[WeiHan]

The ground IS indeed very unhappy about FTs issue because ever since they open the floodgate, wages have been suppressed for most Singaporeans despite good, reasonable economic growth. On top of that, prices for space, public utilities, transports etc… has increased for everybody. Like what was succintly articulated, the profits for increased population is privatised (i.e. it benefits very few people) but the cost of it is nationalised (everybody including the middle class and the poor).


And it was clear that it has been business owners that aren’t exporters that have been lobbying for liberal "FTs" policies. Rememer that sakae Sushi’s offer of a $3K dish washing job that the boss claimed no Singaporeans weren’t keen to take up. Well it is a just wayanging to lobby to gov to allow them employ cheap foreign workers. So what if sakae Sushi price has to go up becos they can’t get cheap workers? average Singaporean has already been struggling to meet rising cost, going to restaurant is not necessity and it can be cut. Hawker centres don’t depend heavily on foreign cheap labors so the hawker centre food price won’t increase much becos of it. even if food court price does increase, then it is not a necessity too, food can be prepared at home and brought to office.

The latest jobless report says that the jobless rate has decreased further to 1.7%. So how does controlling the floodgate chase jobs away as the government claimed?