桃花谈
-
insider:
The line in blue was spoken by the saint, so no doubt about his words.
适度中节
子贡问友于孔子,在《论语·颜渊》中,孔子说:“忠告而善道之,不可则止”。
孔子认为,对待朋友的错误,要坦诚布公地劝导他,推心置腹地讲明利害关系,但他坚持不听,也就作罢。
如果别人不听,你一再劝告,不但不能达到目的反而会自取其辱。
可见,与朋友相处时“忠告善导”固不可少,但也要懂得“不可则止”的道理,这也是孔子明哲保身原则在交朋友上的具体运用。
另外,孔子认为,朋友关系是一种非常亲密的关系,但是要把握好与朋友的距离。因为人性的弱点,过分亲密与接近都会造成反感。正如《论语·里仁》中,子游所讲:“事君数,斯辱矣,朋友数,斯疏矣”。
出于忠心而诲之,但忠言逆耳,若不被听从,也不可勉强行之,过于烦琐,以致“言者轻,听者厌”,求亲而反疏,落得难堪收场。
http://xxlyart.web-52.com/bbs/ShowPost.asp?ThreadID=157783&ViewMode=1
The others in red, was what the author of the thread INTERPRET, so it's 见仁见智。我们必须视思明，听思聪，不可人云亦云。 -
Imami:
Jennifer:
Glad you are back to clarify the speeding topic.
Oh, u also reading this... Then you never come and 踢我一脚 also? :evil:
I hv learnt to hold my tongue and give pple the benefit of doubt
Sometimes, we type too fast w/o incorporating all the facts and giving all background info (anyway sharing is never supposed to be a dummy proof operating manual or whatever).
Giving the sharing person the benefit of doubt is the best policy to maintain PEACE in a controversial topic.
The acceptance level in controversial topic is always different for everyone. We cannot expect everyone to think like us nor should we be too disappointed when the other person thinks differently from us.
PEACE -
CloudeeDaz:
Yes, dumbfounded. I draw a clear line between individual risk and public harm. Insider's niece case is one of individual risk. Speeding as in Imami's case is one of public harm.hihi insider
i think if someone were to post in this forum that he threw heavy items out of his windows, the responses to the post will still be the same as the speeding case.
i have always enjoyed your posts and marveled at the profound thoughts that you have.
But a few of your recent posts had left me dumbfounded.
this is one of theminsider:
.....maybe we move on to killer litter, those who throw heavy items out from their windows and hit and killed strangers. these people obviously not supposed to do this kind of things but they chose to do, so what can one do if really suay suay kena hit? isn't it fated to be at the wrong place at the wrong time?
Furthermore, insider is shifting the conversation constantly between doer and victim. Victim may be suay, it does not mean we can close one eye toward the doer either.
Killer litter Suay Suay get hit - you may wish to accept it as 天意and 无明 after an accident.
I, as a regular passerby or a neighbour, if I see someone throwing killer litter out, I would report it to the police every single incident I see.
I will put up notices on the walls around the foot of the block and in the lifts to alert all residents staying at the same block.
I will do all this so that if someone really Suay Suay get hit, I know that at least I have tried my best. If I don't do or say anything, I have part responsibility as well. This is my stand.
The playground at my area used to have a swing where one screw kept coming loose. If the swing unhooked while someone was swinging, a child could fly off and end up hitting concrete tiles. I alerted the management on different occasions and either got someone to hook it up so no child could use it, or left a big note on it. I checked it every morning, I took photos of it after three months, and I scolded the management for doing such a sloppy job. All they did was push it back in when they should replace the entire thing. I told all the kids at the playground to check before using, and I told all the maids I saw.
Once I stopped a family from swinging their daughter. When they saw the screw barely hanging on, they were shocked. I told the father to please scold the management as well because thus far, I was the only one calling and complaining and there would be times when I could not check it in the morning. It was very clearly an accident waiting to happen. Most of the parents in the area are working parents and the management does not listen to the maids or tenants.
Finally they fixed it properly.
Is it 天意 that no one in the management wants to authorize extra money to get the swing fixed properly? Is it 天意 that no child was hurt while I checked it everyday and alerted all the kids and adults I met at the playground?
And if someone was indeed hurt, is it 天意？ of course not. It is sheer negligence.
There are cases of 天意。They are very very rare. A sinkhole suddenly opens up on the road without warning, yes, really suay. Building collapse in India where the management was informed of cracks, but still ordered workers in. This is wilful negligence.
Someone in depression decides to commit suicide by jumping and lands on another innocent passerby. Wow, really super suay. Someone throwing killer litter out and hit someone - this is criminal.
Niece wants to go to third world to do social work, that is her life her choice. She wants to sleep late and eat junk food that is her life her choice. If she becomes a drug addict do you still say her life her choice or report her to the police and makes sure she is forced to undergo rehabilitation?
Different situation demands different response. I think this much is clear to most forummites. -
kekeke…imami, not that you ‘implicated’ me for this little exchange coz it seems like it’s the other way round.
my purpose of starting this is share my view of ‘dont state the obvious’ if our close ones should know what to do.
I don’t know you personally, but from those exchanges that we had, you should be someone logical and not reckless and so I ‘fished’ you out for a probable topic of discussion as to whether ‘kind advice’ are really ‘kind’ or sometimes they may simply push people off (the ‘people’ I have in mind usually refer to our relationships with our kiddos).
ammonite
you’re right that we have to do whatever we can if we see social bad so that maybe others can be spared of disasters. Those examples that you cited are good ones.
when i said 天意, it is referring to things beyond our control.
there’s a difference between how we treat a stranger and someone close. we don’t know that someone, so we can try to right the wrongs whenever we think that someone might be doing wrong.
But if that’s someone close, then we have to think the intellectual power of this someone, the extent of 无明 in this someone, before we dish out appropiate reply - this will maintain or strengthen existing relationships instead of otherwise.
One of my most recent ‘cases’:
One of my childhood friends called me and told me that her son, age 23, now in uni, has been visiting prostitutes.
I asked her how she knows.
She said she talked to son and son just shared the info ‘naturally’.
She told me she was shocked (I was shocked too) coz son appears to be decent so far. Yet, she managed to bite her tongue and then called me to ask me how to handle.
I am still thinking about this case. It’s not that we dont ‘guide’, but the essence is how to guide without stating the obvious (STD, AIDS, etc, which the son should know) and if after guiding, the son still cannot change, then what should she do (this part is more into 天意 oredi if he really contracts AIDS or whatever later.)
The skill here is to guide without letting the son go into ‘hiding’ but will continue to share. To ‘guide’ till someone begin to lie is poor guiding skills though it may satisfy the ‘guider’‘s sense of righteousness.
limlim
when I said ‘shut up’, I am referring to as a passenger sitting in another person’s car, that I have a choice to shut up (if I want to ride on his car, knowing that he may speed. Not that he always speeds but he MAY speed) or choose not to ride on his car. I think it is only fair to the driver that if I want a ride, I should not be ‘so noisy’ besides him (else I really find myself irritating to ‘disturb’ the driver, esp I myself cant really assess road ‘logic’.)
How often I hear my sister and her child exchanged in a frustrating manner when my niece drives and then my sis besides, then my sis will go, "should like this and should like that’, then my niece’s final answer usually will be, "You drive lah!"
Sorry if my writing made you think that I am asking you to shut up (never intended to).
PS:
Need to go for an excursion. Catch up later!
PS2:
That Confucius’ chinese principle is a very strong principle of mine. I don’t anyhow advise and whatever comes out from my mouth, usually my kiddos will take them positively. -
Blessedwife:
Ngl2010 and Blessedwife,
ngl2010,ngl2010:
I think all these posts started with the above post which gave impression that Imami can hit 130 km/hr on a dry day in Singapore and also because in the 2nd paragraph she wrote \"My car seat incident was felt deeply by me becos I tend to drive fast whenever there is a chance (with or without my son, I drive fast).\"
Only Imami knows the truth whether she ever/often drove 130 km/hr in Singapore.
What I want to say is nobody should drive 130 km/hr in Singapore. I hope Imami will never drive 130 km/hr in Singapore.
I have a lot of respect for Insider with all the advices she has been giving but now I am disappointed because I have the impression that she condone high speed driving with reasons such as we cannot do anything if the driver is speeding since we are only passenger, the driver already knows the danger so no point even if we tell the driver off, it is fate if we die due to accident that is not our fault, etc. Well, everybody is just human. Nobody is perfect. Insider can write and argue very well so I am sure there are other things she can say to defend her view. I am not a good debater so I will definitely lose to her. I hope she won't respond to this post. Anyway, I won't comment anymore on this matter.
Have a great weekend, everybody. Be safe.
I have the same thought as you !!
I have a lot of respect for Insider for all the great advices she gave to many of us but upon seeing how she condone the act of reckless driving my heart sank a bit and feel disappointed.
If we were to associate reckless driving/accident to 天意 nothing we can do to change the fact ! What can we do ? Sit back and just wait for things to happen rather than to try to prevent ?
I share the same thinking as you on this.
As I grow older, I find myself believing more in fate or 天意。As I read the recent posts about speed driving and killer littering, I asked myself to what extent would I take the consequences of such irresponsible actions as 天意。
If my family member or myself were hurt by such accident, I would be angry and want to see the one responsible be punished by law. At the same time, I may tell myself it is fated. It is true what has happened already happened, there is nothing more one can do other than accepting it. Thinking it is 天意 would help me to get over it faster and move on.
On the other hand, if I see my family member, a friend or even a neighbor carrying out such irresponsible act, I would definitely advise him or tell him off. It doesn't matter that they are adults and should already know the consequences of speed driving/killer littering. It doesn't matter that they think they have their reasons of doing so. It doesn't matter that they have done so many times and no accident has happened. It doesn't matter they think they know better when to do it \"safely\". I would never think that I should keep quiet and if someone get killed/hurt by these acts, it is just their fate or 天意。 -
ammonite:
:goodpost:Killer litter Suay Suay get hit - you may wish to accept it as 天意and 无明 after an accident.
I, as a regular passerby or a neighbour, if I see someone throwing killer litter out, I would report it to the police every single incident I see.
I will put up notices on the walls around the foot of the block and in the lifts to alert all residents staying at the same block.
I will do all this so that if someone really Suay Suay get hit, I know that at least I have tried my best. If I don't do or say anything, I have part responsibility as well. This is my stand.
The playground at my area used to have a swing where one screw kept coming loose. If the swing unhooked while someone was swinging, a child could fly off and end up hitting concrete tiles. I alerted the management on different occasions and either got someone to hook it up so no child could use it, or left a big note on it. I checked it every morning, I took photos of it after three months, and I scolded the management for doing such a sloppy job. All they did was push it back in when they should replace the entire thing. I told all the kids at the playground to check before using, and I told all the maids I saw.
Once I stopped a family from swinging their daughter. When they saw the screw barely hanging on, they were shocked. I told the father to please scold the management as well because thus far, I was the only one calling and complaining and there would be times when I could not check it in the morning. It was very clearly an accident waiting to happen. Most of the parents in the area are working parents and the management does not listen to the maids or tenants.
Finally they fixed it properly.
Is it 天意 that no one in the management wants to authorize extra money to get the swing fixed properly? Is it 天意 that no child was hurt while I checked it everyday and alerted all the kids and adults I met at the playground?
And if someone was indeed hurt, is it 天意？ of course not. It is sheer negligence.
There are cases of 天意。They are very very rare. A sinkhole suddenly opens up on the road without warning, yes, really suay. Building collapse in India where the management was informed of cracks, but still ordered workers in. This is wilful negligence.
Someone in depression decides to commit suicide by jumping and lands on another innocent passerby. Wow, really super suay. Someone throwing killer litter out and hit someone - this is criminal.
Different situation demands different response. I think this much is clear to most forummites.
I would do the same. I witnessed three cars (on separate days) blatantly beat the red lights when green man light is on & school children are crossing. This is accident waiting to happen！Totally freak me out.
I emailed MP, called up relevant authority and continue harping on it for a good 6 months for them to do something about it. They eventually studied the road condition, installed additional traffic light at the center kerb and changed the timing of nearby traffic lights to minimize such incidents from occurring.
If I have kept quiet, ignoring what I've seen and someone was indeed hurt, I would always wonder if I could do more then. So there
And in regards to the topic on speeding...
I always believe in 小心驶得万年船. The least I want is to become overconfident just because I'm an experienced driver. And more importantly, I know very well I would not be able to live with my conscience if someone was injured directly or even indirectly because of me. So I always keep within speed limit regardless in Singapore or overseas.
I don't need a traffic fine or summon to deter me from driving fast. My conscience is more than enough to do the job. -
I never pick up many of lifestyle bad habits. But I do lie to my parents, after reading the various sharing here, kick start by the speeding post, I discover that the things that I lied about are the subjects that I know my parents would nag the worst or reacted the most about.
I still care about my parents and I know they love me a lot. But the fear of their nagging do make me hold back certain issues. It’s difficult to explain the defensive mechanism that I put up when they nag.
It does put me at an disadvantage becos I have reduced access to another point of view, their wisdom and the comfort that they might provide. The things that they never nag, I never do. Like I post, I never pick up many of lifestyle bad habits, not even those that as teenagers one might be curious to try.
The things they nag about, it was not as they dread.
Of there are many factors involved too about how one’s child turns out.
Now as a parent, I might be following in their footsteps LOL. So I must be careful heehee -
Honestly I was kind of of render speechless by your first & immediate response because you sounded 理直气壮 wor
Imami:
But of cos. Capable of speed doesn't mean one is reckless or unskilled. A reckless or poorly skilled driver who drives fast is foolish. I am neither. You talk like you have seen me drive.Imami:
I've read your explanation in your recent posting.sorry sleepy, I was quite pissed by your earlier post hence my response was bad
No hard feelings. Let's move on
-
Imo, Let us not use 天意 as excuse for any wrongdoings.
Sorry insider I hv loads of great respect for u but can’t agree with your argument on speed driving.
We are obliged to be a responsible user of public roads be it local and overseas. -
sleepy:
don't drive if you're sleepy okie.. :evil: :evil:
I don't need a traffic fine or summon to deter me from driving fast. My conscience is more than enough to do the job.
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