桃花谈

[Imami]

limlim:

before I began, I just want to clarify that there is no hard feelings and I am not emotional.


However, I may be tactless in the words, so please do not be offended

Just clarifying why I made those comments only.. if it is a misunderstanding, let it be water under the bridge....

每次都这样，不知道该打还是该疼

[BeContented]

Imami:

metz:

A word of caution on driving, besides observing speed limits and other rules & regulations, it is also very important for drivers and all passengers to fasten their seatbelt.


Last year, a Singaporean family with 3 young kids lost their mother in an accident in US on a wet day. No speeding was involved. However, the death could have been avoided had the mother fastened her seatbelt.

http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20120101-319392.html

Yes definitely. Which explains why I was grateful for having an opportunity to discover that my son's car seat was not properly secured before any harm come my little one's way. To me, the speed of a moving car is not the most important factor can cause an accident.

I shuddered at the thought of how the car seat might shift from it's original position and caused injury to my son. Speed or no speed, an insecure car seat is still a potential danger to my child.

I have friends who insist on keeping to 60km/hr and still end up causing traffic accidents. To me, it's the driver's judgment and the reaction that matters, not the speed.

Aiya, 无明做怪， 说了不讲还讲 :slapshead:

Now I really have a concern.
So if a person thinks & believes that he has good judgement, reaction & driving skills, it's ok to drive fast?? Isn't it so irresponsible? While this skillful driver may get away with an accident with his fast reaction, he or she may cause others to meet with one. Doesn't sound right to me at all.

And like what limlim mentioned. The consequences & severity of a 60km vs 130km is different. You dun have to hit another vehicle, just a pothole or rock will have different impact. Pedestrian or cyclist or drivers, we all should play our part in road safety.

[Imami]

BeContented:

Now I really have a concern.
So if a person thinks & believes that he has good judgement, reaction & driving skills, it's ok to drive fast?? Isn't it so irresponsible? While this skillful driver may get away with an accident with his fast reaction, he or she may cause others to meet with one. Doesn't sound right to me at all.

And like what limlim mentioned. The consequences & severity of a 60km vs 130km is different. You dun have to hit another vehicle, just a pothole or rock will have different impact. Pedestrian or cyclist or drivers, we all should play our part in road safety.

aiya, becontented, what you have posted is not what I think. as I say 不讲了 so I shall keep to it.

[Blessedwife]

BeContented:

Imami:

[quote=\"metz\"]A word of caution on driving, besides observing speed limits and other rules & regulations, it is also very important for drivers and all passengers to fasten their seatbelt.


Last year, a Singaporean family with 3 young kids lost their mother in an accident in US on a wet day. No speeding was involved. However, the death could have been avoided had the mother fastened her seatbelt.

http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20120101-319392.html

Yes definitely. Which explains why I was grateful for having an opportunity to discover that my son's car seat was not properly secured before any harm come my little one's way. To me, the speed of a moving car is not the most important factor can cause an accident.

I shuddered at the thought of how the car seat might shift from it's original position and caused injury to my son. Speed or no speed, an insecure car seat is still a potential danger to my child.

I have friends who insist on keeping to 60km/hr and still end up causing traffic accidents. To me, it's the driver's judgment and the reaction that matters, not the speed.

Aiya, 无明做怪， 说了不讲还讲 :slapshead:

Now I really have a concern.
So if a person thinks & believes that he has good judgement, reaction & driving skills, it's ok to drive fast?? Isn't it so irresponsible? While this skillful driver may get away with an accident with his fast reaction, he or she may cause others to meet with one. Doesn't sound right to me at all.

And like what limlim mentioned. The consequences & severity of a 60km vs 130km is different. You dun have to hit another vehicle, just a pothole or rock will have different impact. Pedestrian or cyclist or drivers, we all should play our part in road safety.[/quote]Totally agree !

[GLORYmum]

Speed def plays a part, undeniably! Drive wisely n safely.

[iFirefly]

Jennifer:

I hv learnt to hold my tongue and give pple the benefit of doubt

Sometimes, we type too fast w/o incorporating all the facts and giving all background info (anyway sharing is never supposed to be a dummy proof operating manual or whatever).

Giving the sharing person the benefit of doubt is the best policy to maintain PEACE in a controversial topic.

The acceptance level in controversial topic is always different for everyone. We cannot expect everyone to think like us nor should we be too disappointed when the other person thinks differently from us.

PEACE

Jen.. You would rather use your tongue to taste goodie yummy food, ya?

[ngl2010]

We don’t really care the Ferrari driver died that night. However, because of his action, 2 innocent people died. A wife lost her husband, children lost their father, a family lost their daughter.


Anybody who thinks that it is driver’s judgment and reaction that matters and not the speed, I hope nobody is on the road when this person is driving. There are racing circuits in Malaysia that is suitable for high speed. Meanwhile, in Singapore please obey the speed limit. There are other people using the road. Please be considerate to them and their family. Thank you.

[ChiefKiasu]

Moderator's note:

Enough has been said or explained on the issue of speeding in this thread. Some very good points have been made and the dangers of driving at very high speeds above legal limits in Singapore have been clearly expressed and explored. Everyone concurs that it is important to practice defensive driving when interacting with other drivers and road users. Let us deviate no further from the original intent of this thread. If you wish to talk about road safety and correct driver behavior, please create another thread on that topic.

Thank you.

PS. All posts relating to the above issue will be embargoed from this point onwards.

[insider]

popireis:

insider:

适度中节

子贡问友于孔子,在《论语·颜渊》中,孔子说:“忠告而善道之,不可则止”。

孔子认为,对待朋友的错误,要坦诚布公地劝导他,推心置腹地讲明利害关系,但他坚持不听,也就作罢。

如果别人不听,你一再劝告,不但不能达到目的反而会自取其辱。

可见,与朋友相处时“忠告善导”固不可少,但也要懂得“不可则止”的道理,这也是孔子明哲保身原则在交朋友上的具体运用。

另外,孔子认为,朋友关系是一种非常亲密的关系,但是要把握好与朋友的距离。因为人性的弱点,过分亲密与接近都会造成反感。正如《论语·里仁》中,子游所讲:“事君数,斯辱矣,朋友数,斯疏矣”。

出于忠心而诲之,但忠言逆耳,若不被听从,也不可勉强行之,过于烦琐,以致“言者轻,听者厌”,求亲而反疏,落得难堪收场。

http://xxlyart.web-52.com/bbs/ShowPost.asp?ThreadID=157783&ViewMode=1

The line in blue was spoken by the saint, so no doubt about his words.
The others in red, was what the author of the thread INTERPRET, so it's 见仁见智。我们必须视思明，听思聪，不可人云亦云。

errr...will be pleased to hear what's your understanding of the line in blue to 见 your 仁 and 智 in interpreting this sentence.

I am not into reinventing the wheels and so will do the cut and paste.

Below one more extension:

这句话真的是很有道理，“忠告而善道之，不可则止，勿自辱也”，一个人想要劝朋友如何如何，应该用什么方式呢？一般是忠告，但有时忠告的太理直气壮，不得分寸，让朋友下不来台，也会事得其反。

这些忠告的把握，记得于丹曾说，忠告良药一定苦口吗，一定要当头棒喝吗，你可以娓娓道来，这叫善道之，不见得要声色俱厉。你好好跟他说，但是不可则止，一定要知道，说得不投机就停下来，不要自取屈辱。这就是朋友之间的分寸把握。

朋友之间也不能说你揪着对方，你必须要怎么怎么样，其实在今天这个社会里，每一个人都是值得尊敬的，朋友之间的这种尊敬，好好的说出你的忠告尽你的一份责任，这就是好朋友了。所以好朋友从不做过分的事，不要对朋友的态度过分，也永远不要鼓动朋友去做过分的事情，这其实就是孔子所说的什么是好朋友，好朋友是在我们的身边永远让我们以理性远离危险的人，同时又是用一种快乐之心鼓励我们坦荡而欢乐去面对生活的人。

我觉得还有一些情况，比如一些人去忠告朋友时，是不是先想一想自己之所以出头露面、正言而谈的真正目的是什么；是不是心底坦荡站在一个公正的立场上；是不是说的话有理有节；是不是在一个恰当的时机、恰当的氛围，这些都很重要，这也叫有脸色，眼里会气。

同时，还应该再审视一下自己，确实想忠告朋友时，也要先看看自己是否有这个实力，也就是说话是不是站位置，能否得到足够的重视，这样才不会越劝越忙，越帮越乱，事得其反。不可则止，勿自辱也。这叫事可而止，知难而退。

在很多事情上，先退一步，再想办法，再选时机，只要最终的目的达成，何必急在一时，针锋相对呐？不光朋友之间，对待学生、家长是不是也要注意呢?

很多时候我们都是自以为“救世主”般的教训学生、家长，我们可能是在态度上没有注意到，归根结底是没有把学生、家长当成一个朋友，而是站在对立的立场上，体现出自己的“优越性”。回想这些年，没少“教训”人家，想想真是太无知了，还认为自己做了好事一般。所以，从现在开始，一定要控制住自己，用适当的方法劝告，如果不行，就换一种方式，切不可“一吐为快”，因为“欲速则不达”。

source:
http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_3d57ca850100vvxf.html

[sunflower]

insider:

insider:

适度中节

子贡问友于孔子,在《论语·颜渊》中,孔子说:“忠告而善道之,不可则止”。

孔子认为,对待朋友的错误,要坦诚布公地劝导他,推心置腹地讲明利害关系,但他坚持不听,也就作罢。

如果别人不听,你一再劝告,不但不能达到目的反而会自取其辱。

可见,与朋友相处时“忠告善导”固不可少,但也要懂得“不可则止”的道理,这也是孔子明哲保身原则在交朋友上的具体运用。

另外,孔子认为,朋友关系是一种非常亲密的关系,但是要把握好与朋友的距离。因为人性的弱点,过分亲密与接近都会造成反感。正如《论语·里仁》中,子游所讲:“事君数,斯辱矣,朋友数,斯疏矣”。

出于忠心而诲之,但忠言逆耳,若不被听从,也不可勉强行之,过于烦琐,以致“言者轻,听者厌”,求亲而反疏,落得难堪收场。

http://xxlyart.web-52.com/bbs/ShowPost.asp?ThreadID=157783&ViewMode=1

...

I am not into reinventing the wheels and so will do the cut and paste.

Below one more extension:

这句话真的是很有道理，“忠告而善道之，不可则止，勿自辱也”，一个人想要劝朋友如何如何，应该用什么方式呢？一般是忠告，但有时忠告的太理直气壮，不得分寸，让朋友下不来台，也会事得其反。

这些忠告的把握，记得于丹曾说，忠告良药一定苦口吗，一定要当头棒喝吗，你可以娓娓道来，这叫善道之，不见得要声色俱厉。你好好跟他说，但是不可则止，一定要知道，说得不投机就停下来，不要自取屈辱。这就是朋友之间的分寸把握。

朋友之间也不能说你揪着对方，你必须要怎么怎么样，其实在今天这个社会里，每一个人都是值得尊敬的，朋友之间的这种尊敬，好好的说出你的忠告尽你的一份责任，这就是好朋友了。所以好朋友从不做过分的事，不要对朋友的态度过分，也永远不要鼓动朋友去做过分的事情，这其实就是孔子所说的什么是好朋友，好朋友是在我们的身边永远让我们以理性远离危险的人，同时又是用一种快乐之心鼓励我们坦荡而欢乐去面对生活的人。

我觉得还有一些情况，比如一些人去忠告朋友时，是不是先想一想自己之所以出头露面、正言而谈的真正目的是什么；是不是心底坦荡站在一个公正的立场上；是不是说的话有理有节；是不是在一个恰当的时机、恰当的氛围，这些都很重要，这也叫有脸色，眼里会气。

同时，还应该再审视一下自己，确实想忠告朋友时，也要先看看自己是否有这个实力，也就是说话是不是站位置，能否得到足够的重视，这样才不会越劝越忙，越帮越乱，事得其反。不可则止，勿自辱也。这叫事可而止，知难而退。

在很多事情上，先退一步，再想办法，再选时机，只要最终的目的达成，何必急在一时，针锋相对呐？不光朋友之间，对待学生、家长是不是也要注意呢?

很多时候我们都是自以为“救世主”般的教训学生、家长，我们可能是在态度上没有注意到，归根结底是没有把学生、家长当成一个朋友，而是站在对立的立场上，体现出自己的“优越性”。回想这些年，没少“教训”人家，想想真是太无知了，还认为自己做了好事一般。所以，从现在开始，一定要控制住自己，用适当的方法劝告，如果不行，就换一种方式，切不可“一吐为快”，因为“欲速则不达”。

source:
http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_3d57ca850100vvxf.html

From the blog posts that insider quoted, my understanding is that we do not give advice based on our attitude of us being more superior than the other person. The tone of voice, real motive, words chosen (maybe also facial expressions/body language) as well as whether the conversation is held in a favourable atmosphere/condition are important factors that determine how and when to dish out advice. I think the blogger is addressing the issue of the 说教式 “preaching” way of giving advice, which is very common, especially in the Asian culture.