sleepy:

2ppaamm:

Just to add that acceleration can mean different things and can work different ways. Radical acceleration (more than 2 years) in the form of early entrant, i.e. going to uni before 16, is very rare (three of my kids did this), but there are other acceleration methods besides early entrants.

I know this professor who finished his PhD at 22 (one of the youngest in the world), but he went to university 'late' at 17. But by then, he needed only to finish one year of undergraduate work and graduated at 18. He then went on to complete his PhD in 4 years. This path has got some advantages as in there are less social issues as the child continues to be with his age peers through to adulthood. However, to follow this path, the planning (normally by the parents) must also be immaculate. My last two kids are following this path, and stay in schools till 17, but by the time they graduate from high schools, they will have also graduated from the university. They benefit from the chance to grow up with age peers and learn with intellectual peers.


Also not sure how many parents can do this on their own, as it requires a lot of understanding of both the child and the education system at both high school and university levels. So I believe to be able to do this, the child must either be well supported through an IEP (individualized education plan) or experienced educators (I know only of one other in SG and she is Chenghu... ), or a very well informed parent.

Oh boi, I'm seriously getting more and more confused
Absolutely zero knowledge. Not familiar with US education.

I don't think I can do any of the above without professional guidance. Possible to list down step 1 to 100? :please:

For once, google doesn't help. I don't even know where to start looking :faint:



By the way, off topic, do you feel safe in US? They have guns :nailbite:
I have only been to US twice. Once on leisure & once on business trip > 10 years ago. And I also travelled next door to Vancouver. So my impression of US is very touristy.


Just curious, is Australia as flexible as US with regards to early admission to Uni?

Hi Sleepy, I sent you a PM so as not to confuse anyone further.

Re Australian Universities: depends, and it defers from university to university, you have to first think about which state you want to be in, then look for the university you are targeting and then read the fine print (this one got fine print). :evil:

Aiyoh, I forgot... it also defers from course to course even in the same uni. Argh... I see why it is confusing now. If your child wants to read medicine, there are some special policies for some universities ... Sorry to confuse you.

sleepy:

jetsetter:

SAT shouldn't be a prob for your DDs lah.

Oh boi, I won't count on that :nailbite:

They are average la, not super duper smart like 2ppaamm's kids
or tip top in their cohort

One is weak in Maths & Chinese and the other weak in English & Science. If only they can combine forces :please:

And SAT doesn't get one into Uni directly. I just found out there's still high school in between

Won't accelerate a lot in our case if there's high school to attend.

Probably more applicable to younger kids, can start planning ahead

Er... firstly, I am not sure how to react to this gifted thingy. I always believe (to violent objections) that every child is gifted in at least one area, and every child is gifted at different levels. So, super duper smart or not is not as important as the opportunities we, parents, open up to them. It is also how much we venture to find new things or dare to try. By that measurement, many KSP's children are smarter than mine lor...

Just to add that acceleration can mean different things and can work different ways. Radical acceleration (more than 2 years) in the form of early entrant, i.e. going to uni before 16, is very rare (three of my kids did this), but there are other acceleration methods besides early entrants.

I know this professor who finished his PhD at 22 (one of the youngest in the world), but he went to university 'late' at 17. But by then, he needed only to finish one year of undergraduate work and graduated at 18. He then went on to complete his PhD in 4 years. This path has got some advantages as in there are less social issues as the child continues to be with his age peers through to adulthood. However, to follow this path, the planning (normally by the parents) must also be immaculate. My last two kids are following this path, and stay in schools till 17, but by the time they graduate from high schools, they will have also graduated from the university. They benefit from the chance to grow up with age peers and learn with intellectual peers.

The method in the last paragraph will be difficult to execute in SG schools and universities as far as I know, unless the SG system changes or has changed recently. Though I know of a handful of kids (<10 in our SG's history as far as I know) who are allowed such flexibility. SG education system has yet come to this 'stage'. There is too much 'pumping' for A's to allow exploration of the minds to go deeper into academic pursuits of interest to the child. Not sure to call this more 'advanced' or not, just different.

Also not sure how many parents can do this on their own, as it requires a lot of understanding of both the child and the education system at both high school and university levels. So I believe to be able to do this, the child must either be well supported through an IEP (individualized education plan) or experienced educators (I know only of one other in SG and she is Chenghu... ), or a very well informed parent.

Can this be done in SG until child is old enough to go uni? Of course lah (and can be very cheap). But that is a topic for another day.

Ok, so hope this sets you thinking a bit. Great super duper KSP have a lot of think!

Popcorn:

Hi 2ppaamm,

What is the earliest age where a kid can take SAT? This is 1 of the options I am considering for my DS. If he can get full scholarship, I wouldn't mind him taking the US citizenship.. It's up to him.. There is this online stanford gifted program for the youth.. Does that course help to earn points/credits for the child to admit into the uni?

I am not sure what the minimum age is, but kids do the test as young as 12. In many US-based institutions, once after 12, the IQ tests are less used to gauge children's abilities, SAT and ACT tests are used instead. I can't remember if one of my kids took it at 11 or 12. Under 13, manual registration needs to be done instead of online registration.

sleepy:

2ppaamm:

The other thing, if you are in GEP and do not have a dream to be govt person.... err.... like not very in-line with G objective leh...

PM you

I didn't realize there's fine print for gep :nailbite:

Hmm, I heard gep is open to everyone including PR and non citizens. Not everyone converted to Singapore citizen :siam:

No fine/bold/normal print lah.

pirate:

Does precocious ability to


(1) play and navigate various online computer games without being taught;
(2) talk back to adults in a way that leaves them speechless;

count as \"gifted\"?

Yes, if your child is like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP8RB7UZHKI

If you ask me ah.... SAT is so much simpler than those silly SG exams, at least for my children for one simple reason: my children don't mug and mug. No matter what exams fall into SG schools (from A levels to IB), they turn out to be nightmares because the teachers will make them study non-stop till they score really high, but they'll lose the meaning.


My kids do well enough the get medals and scholarships in SAT, and they don't really study or mug, just try one or two exam papers. I don't see a point of mugging non stop, but I see a point in understanding what the exam is testing. I see a point in working on vocab, and polishing up the Math. But to grill exam questions is silly. As a result, they like to take the SAT, but was shocked to see how their friends study for 'A' levels and 'O' levels. So you get the gist. Every exam is the same: you push and grind, you will get great results.

I am not sure if my approach is right, people tell me if I push a little more, I can see even better results from my kids. But I don't see a point in trying to get perfect scores, by pushing so hard that the child loses his learning interests. If the child is already getting say 780/800, then why bother to push so much hard to get that 800? To get from 780 to 800 takes many more hours, in which I can go on a holiday with them. Less stress for everyone, and more sustainable.

And, if they get sky high marks through such pushing, imagine how life will be like in the uni for them, having to struggle with kids who are naturally endowed. Remember it won't be SG anymore, where most kids who excel academically are pushed or tuitioned. A lot of ang mo kids do really well because they have a strong passion and great understanding. I have seen Ang Mo kids in Ivy Leagues who don't need to study much, party, and then score perfect GPAs. Maybe to be in a second tier uni serves one who over mugs better.

Besides that, if you are looking at US Unis, there are quotas to the number of Singaporeans they take in, however great your kids' results, they are competing with Singaporeans, not other nationalities (back to square one). And, SAT is not the only thing they look at. If you put your child in a super kiasu IP school, and he is not thriving (as in not top 10 in school in everything: in sports, in community work, in academics), then chances of him making the IL is almost zilch. Unless, of course, mum or dad are alumnus of the IL. Ok - so the little secret is out why so many kids with great results and an IL dream never make it and end up with lesser (non Cambridge or Oxford) UK unis or get a scholarship in a local uni.

The other thing, if you are in GEP and do not have a dream to be govt person.... err.... like not very in-line with G objective leh...

My little understanding, and hope it helps those who are reading.

In conclusion, I don't believe in going for top top lah. I go for sustainability. At the end of the day, which school you go to plays a small part in your career if you are able to work with good ethics, are creative, have good value add to the organization and are able to blend in socially. O, of course, I don't mean in the current (who knows if this will change) government jobs, where not all of these are valued.

sleepy:

And Im not sure how difficult it is to prep for SAT :nailbite:

If you want to try for scholarships from US unis, you may want to consider having the kids take the SAT before their 13th birthday. If they score very close to perfect scores, there are many scholarships and prizes available. These can cover all the way to the time they finish uni, but I think your kids will then become US citizens lor (as a condition to get the full scholarship - people all over the world are trying to attract talents). They can be dual citizens until 22, when the SG govt will force a decision upon them. By then, your kids would have finished their degrees, and can choose either.

Warning: Most kids won't want to come back once they've tasted the joy of learning overseas. So if your children are conformers the benefits are not as great as those who like self-expression more.

As for preparation of SAT, you may want to try my school which specializes in younger students taking SAT. Hehe, not going to advertise here lah (since the there are limited vacancies now), I'm sure you know how to search it out.

O, BTW, for those with boys who are thinking of getting out of army, if you plan after the child turns 6, it is unlikely to happen. It takes normally at least 4-5 years to get citizenship from another country. Search around the SG forums on this topic to find out why the child cannot 'escape' after that. Won't be talking about migration policy here for now. Also, special needs boys and those with psychiatric needs are still enlisted these days, so gifted boys with 'behavioral problems' or 'not like the rest' will unlikely get leeway or special treatment.

Popcorn:

Hi Omelette,


There are many educators out there who don't understand gifted children. I do not know if my child is gifted or not (not tested)... but let me share an experience I encountered. I have an educator telling me that my child should start off learning the basic (nursery stuff) when he is already doing K2 stuff at home and in his school. This educator has a child in GEP and she said that my child should do age appropriate work...(my child is 2 year plus).. Can u imagine my shock.... This coming from an educator who has a child in GEP... On top of that, she told me she would expect my child to be sitting down quietly to do his work, cannot make noise, talk only when he has a question to ask..... I can't believe my ears.... I don't agree to the above and i don't expect my child to conform to such. I don't want my child to become a robot. Haha.

A few of such encounters made me realized most schools just want their students to conform so that it will make their job easier, they don't have or maybe don't want to provide the capacity or resources to nurture a \"different\" kid.

If the principle is not supportive of my child's development, I will definitely remove him from the school, unless you see other equally important attributes the school is offering your child. A school is a place where the child will spend most of this (beside home), so the learning environment and culture are very important.

You may want to request to sit in in his class for a couple of days to observe how he is behaving so that from there you can assess the situation better. May I ask are there any recent changes that took place in school or at home? Eg, is this his new school, or new teacher, new baby at home etc.. Some times new changes may cause some behavioral issues as the child needs time to adapt to the change.

You should know by now GEP is not necessarily catered to the gifted but the high achievers. The ones who will bring academic honors (that's why children who are skewed are denied in GEP, however gifted they are).

There is merit in nurturing and investing in high achievers as they are predictable, easy to deal with, and almost always bring home the demanded results. The benefit-cost ratio is higher. :evil:

Highly gifted individuals do not bring forth the predictable results, even though it has been proven that these individuals, when nurtured properly, do bring forth even more astounding results than high achievers, as their propensity to produce is at least a few magnitudes higher. But it is much simpler to get a high achiever to perform than a highly gifted (iffy) kid.

Singapore is not geared to nurture gifted kids, but has invested every cent in those who are compliant (from P1 to GEP to Army to Scholarships). We have to know that, and if the child is truly highly gifted and not coupled with high achieving tendencies, then the system does not work, and it is better to look elsewhere, like international schools.

There's no right or wrong to what the education system chooses to do. It is a preference, and it has its consequences (there won't be great entrepreneurs or inventors, and if prolonged, there won't be great jobs), and its own merits (country easier to run, the 'right' people are in power and have all the say, and therefore economic benefits for all -up to this point at least).

Therefore, I'd take whatever the teacher you mentioned says with a pitch of salt for gifted learners, but if my kid is a high achieving kid, I'd take what she says seriously.

Hi Omelette,


School behavior is not easy for very bright students to comply with. However, you have a choice on what you want to do: 1. get him to comply and learn nevertheless or 2. let him go his own way and choose a path himself.

There are merits either way. Singaporeans tend to go for (1). Meaning, most kids are forced to conform for (to me) a strange reason: army. They will need to conform in the army, especially for a boy. So, if you have no other option, then your only way is to force him to conform. It means, he will lose his creativity, some of his giftedness, and some of his own ways of thinking. In exchange, he gets to associate better with people, probably do better in school, have more friends and become likeable.

If you have other options, i.e. he can escape the army (dual citizenship etc) than you can choose to go the other way, that is to allow him his maximum potential, and he will grow up to be more confident, self-assured, but his social awareness and capability will lag behind until adulthood. By adulthood, his social skills will catch up, but he may not be a social butterfly. Check out Einstein’s life.

I was just wondering what I’d do if I were in your shoes. Now that 4 of my kids are almost done with university, I have a slightly different perspective. Generally, I am pleased the way they grow up, and I will not force them to comply. In forcing them to comply, the battle had been hard. Tried to do that, and I had to battle with a host of psychological problems. When I allow the child to become who he is (he may not like to color : so what? why must he be forced?), he becomes more confident and self-assured. In the long run, he becomes a better person, even socially.

My daughter, at 5, was never asked to learn alphabets in kindy, as she was reading Charles Dickens, so the teachers respected her. She was allowed to read a book under the slide while other kids learn their ABCs. A child’s giftedness and ability to voice his pleasures and displeasure is not to be viewed as defiance. A good educator should be able to teach him to voice his preference in a respectable way, and respect his preference. If he does not like colouring, he must be allowed to do something else. Well, that’s my view. If the kindy cannot accommodate that, then for me, I will switch out, because the battle is really not worth the fight, as the scars can be impossible to mend.

That’s just my 2 cents’ worth. As to the daughter who was allowed to read on her own, she has now graduated with top honors, going on to her postgraduate at 18.

So I don’t think allowing a kid to do what she/he likes is wrong. In fact, the kind kindy teacher told me when she was three that she will be somebody one day, because she knows what she wants. But that is an teacher educated in OZ. Not sure if my daughter will really become somebody, but she will not be nobody.

Take heart, make some good decisions and even if the path is tough, the end will be good.

Hope this helps.

omelette:

To 2ppaamm,


I remember reading about one of your boys being suspended from school a couple of years ago. May I know what issue was it regarding? Has it got to do with behavioral issues mentioned by the school's educators? How did think your boy fare socially after you took him out of school? Pardon me asking these questions as we are having thoughts about homeschooling our boy. Main reason being wanting to let him explore in his area of interest- science. At the same time I'm feeling apprehensive about his social skills. Then again, maybe he is feeling bored in school which explains for his current inexplicit behaviour (in school). I'm hoping that taking him out of school will do him more good in whatever area it is.

Hi Omelette,

I am not sure what your child is like, so it is hard to tell what is on his mind. Firstly, I am not sure why a five-year-old is having problems in school. Is he already in a formal school setting or is this a kindergarten? If the latter, the solution is really quite simple, you just need to change a kindergarten.

Secondly, if he is behaving well at home and not in school, he is probably not able to function out of his comfort zone. He is probably very comfortable at home and feels much less secured in school. That being the case, you need to know what he is uncomfortable about: teachers, friends, or environment. The easiest way, if he is in kindy, is to ask for permission to sit in his class for a period or two. If he does not act out while you are there, it will likely mean he is anxious in the class. You can decide what to do from there.

I am not sure if homeschooling is suitable for every child, and it really depends on quite a few things, including the support the child can get, his ability to learn himself, etc etc. I think only you know what is best.

Not sure about your child, but not every child gets to learn social skills in school, he has to be comfortable and be happy to learn. If he is not, then perhaps you want to review what schooling really means to your family.

I am of the view that children don't get bored in school. They may have learned something already and then 'switch off' or even try to attract attention, but there are many things they can learn even if they are already getting full marks. If the teachers are competent, they can really motivate children, especially at kindy level. It can be really fun.

Not all children who have behavioral problems are naughty or should be blamed. Often, the school system does not make any sense to bright children. If you think about the strange processes schools have to go through, they don't make much sense to adults, and bright kids find it ridiculous as well. Therefore, those who thrive are normally conformant kids and not necessarily bright kids. So if a child has problems, don't pin it down to his behavior straight away. E.g., ask why he is throwing tantrums, and not focus on the tantrums. For all you know, he might have been asked to do something really ridiculous prior to that.

Once a gifted or bright child gets pinned down too often, he will quickly spiral down, so I'd be very careful.

I hope this helps.