2021 PSLE Discussions and Strategies (Children born in 2009)
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SpongyBobs\" post_id=\"2048471\" time=\"1637856709\" user_id=\"196018:
Feels that this is simpler.
I came up with a simpler example.brfish\" post_id=\"2048465\" time=\"1637855626\" user_id=\"102306:
[quote=iRabbit post_id=2048461 time=1637854356 user_id=51587]
Yours is a tricky scenario. It would have been easier for me if School A and B are actual school names so that I don’t have to keep recalling which one is SAP and which is not.
My interpretation is that both will need to ballot for school B if 8M is not good enough for school A. Mabbe others can confirm my understanding as this scenario is slightly mind boggling.
Suppose two students, one local and one foreigner, competing for last seat in Dunman High and Victoria.
The foreigner has AL 8D and his choices are
1. Victoria IP
2. Dunman High
The local student has AL 8M and his choices are
1. Dunman High
2. Victoria
Who goes to which school?
From Dunman High perspective, 8D is better than 8M so 8D should get it. From Victoria perspective, local student has priority so the local student should get it.
Or, MOE can let both students go to their first choice and everyone is happy
Foreigner will get into Dunman High, and local student will get into Victoria IP.
Thoughts:
* From Victoria perspective: 2 AL8 students (foreigner with 1st choice v local with 2nd choice) -- local get in first.
* From Dunman perspective: AL8D beats AL8M. Foreigner will get in based on merit.
* No balloting required
Imagine the case in which the local student gets into Dunman High with AL8(M) . This means system will not be consistent, since based on merit, AL8(D) beats AL8(M). The AL8(D) may appeal, when COP of Dunman High is released to be AL8(M).[/quote]AL 8D wouldn't appeal in this situation. He's posted to his first choice. He can't appeal for being posted to 1st choice and not 2nd. -
brfish\" post_id=\"2048465\" time=\"1637855626\" user_id=\"102306:
I came up with a simpler example.
Yours is a tricky scenario. It would have been easier for me if School A and B are actual school names so that I don’t have to keep recalling which one is SAP and which is not.iRabbit\" post_id=\"2048461\" time=\"1637854356\" user_id=\"51587:
[quote=brfish post_id=2048447 time=1637852916 user_id=102306]How does the tie breaker work exactly?
I understand how the sequence and everything. But that's in single school situation. How does it work when there are multiple students and multiple schools?
Let's say there are two students, Joe Al 8D and Jill AL 8M. There are two schools, A and B, each with 1 seat left. A is SAP school and B is not. Joe and Jill are the only people competing for the last seat.
Joe's choices are:
1. RI (COP 6 so he didn't get in)
2. School B
3. School A
Jill's choices are:
1. School A
2. School B
From school A perspective, Joe is ahead with D in HCL. From school B perspective, both students are the same so need to ballot.
So will Joe places into A first, then Jill gets into B without need to ballot. Or do they ballot for school B first, and the one not getting it go to School A?
Also note in this situation the COP for school A would be different...
My interpretation is that both will need to ballot for school B if 8M is not good enough for school A. Mabbe others can confirm my understanding as this scenario is slightly mind boggling.
Suppose two students, one local and one foreigner, competing for last seat in Dunman High and Victoria.
The foreigner has AL 8D and his choices are
1. Victoria IP
2. Dunman High
The local student has AL 8M and his choices are
1. Dunman High
2. Victoria
Who goes to which school?
From Dunman High perspective, 8D is better than 8M so 8D should get it. From Victoria perspective, local student has priority so the local student should get it.
Or, MOE can let both students go to their first choice and everyone is happy[/quote]Someone above just made a good pt that the last student determines the COP. In this case, VS COP is 8 (it doesn’t matter what’s DHS COP). The local student will get VS (citizenship higher priority than order of choices) while foreign student will go to DHS.
Edit: see below for S1 posting priority
https://www.moe.gov.sg/microsites/psle-fsbb/posting-to-secondary-school/changes-to-s1-posting.html -
How is Eunoia JC (JC partner of St Nick)? Did they produce good A level result?
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Exactly. For that reason, my dd rather choose a good O level express sch than NJC/TJC because the CCAs offered at these jc are so limited.
MerlionInGermany\" post_id=\"2048454\" time=\"1637853187\" user_id=\"2964:
I brought it up first because everytime I see a comparison between njc/tjc, and another school (any school), my first alarm is cca. And this cca thing stems from cohort size. A nephew was in one of these, he was in the sec school section of a jc, and some ccas are taken up by dsa, couple that with fewer ccas, and then factor in your own flair/talent or lack of talent, and then your interest, you end up with almost nothing to choose. They have no uniform group. If you are not sporty and not musically inclined, nothing is left. Ok I exaggerate but this “struggle” is real.SG_KP1\" post_id=\"2048429\" time=\"1637851199\" user_id=\"188234:
I hear the arguments on cohort size but have wondered how much it really matters? I can see how it makes more CCAs available but many of them are still competitive as heck to get a spot in…
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brfish\" post_id=\"2048475\" time=\"1637857020\" user_id=\"102306:
AL 8D wouldn't appeal in this situation. He's posted to his first choice. He can't appeal for being posted to 1st choice and not 2nd.[/quote]Well, he may appeal (successfully), I suppose, but logically he will not since he is getting his first choice, like you said.
Feels that this is simpler.SpongyBobs\" post_id=\"2048471\" time=\"1637856709\" user_id=\"196018:
[quote=brfish post_id=2048465 time=1637855626 user_id=102306]
I came up with a simpler example.
Suppose two students, one local and one foreigner, competing for last seat in Dunman High and Victoria.
The foreigner has AL 8D and his choices are
1. Victoria IP
2. Dunman High
The local student has AL 8M and his choices are
1. Dunman High
2. Victoria
Who goes to which school?
From Dunman High perspective, 8D is better than 8M so 8D should get it. From Victoria perspective, local student has priority so the local student should get it.
Or, MOE can let both students go to their first choice and everyone is happy
Foreigner will get into Dunman High, and local student will get into Victoria IP.
Thoughts:
* From Victoria perspective: 2 AL8 students (foreigner with 1st choice v local with 2nd choice) -- local get in first.
* From Dunman perspective: AL8D beats AL8M. Foreigner will get in based on merit.
* No balloting required
Imagine the case in which the local student gets into Dunman High with AL8(M) . This means system will not be consistent, since based on merit, AL8(D) beats AL8(M). The AL8(D) may appeal, when COP of Dunman High is released to be AL8(M).
We can also say that the local student may appeal by losing Victoria IP to AL8 foreigner, but he wouldn't know this fact. And logically, he will not do anything as well, since he is getting his first choice as well.
If system works as what MOE explains, while assessing foreigner 1st choice, it has to assess all AL8 applicants for potential balloting. When it catches the local student choice, it will assign Victoria IP to the local student.
But I do get your points.
---------- I stand corrected.. Foreigner may not be allowed to appeal, because he was getting into his first choice. -
Veyron\" post_id=\"2048257\" time=\"1637824736\" user_id=\"30663:
Unfortunately, that is the reality of the new AL system. Under this system, 90 is the new 100, there are no extra points for anything above 90. e.g. a student with a raw score of 99 99 99 89 will still be ranked lower than 90 90 90 90 in S1 posting.
with due respect, i think it doesn't make sense if ESIS purposely impose AL5 as the cut off for top 3%. The \" TOP 3%\" in itself means total raw scores logically. otherwise it is not fair to the AL6/AL7s whose scores are better than AL5s, whose efforts need to be rewarded.jkorompis\" post_id=\"2048222\" time=\"1637821161\" user_id=\"193874:
[quote=Veyron post_id=2048060 time=1637803070 user_id=30663]
So far, no parents have reported any AL6 students getting ESIS yet. And I also doubt MOE will do anything like this to complicate the selection criteria because AL grade is now the new rating system.
Furthermore if AL6 + ESIS is better than AL6, then many parents and students go back to the old ways of chasing after 100 marks just to qualify for ESIS.
no parents here have reported AL6s getting ESIS could be the fact that they are not in this forum or prefer to be low profile.
The goal of the AL system is not to chase after every last marks, hence its unlikely MOE will use raw score marks to determine COP for ESIS., while using AL score for S1 posting. Between the 2, which do you think is more important? S1 posting or ESIS?[/quote]yes, goal of AL system is not to chase after every last mark, but ESIS is not something the general population of pupils/parents will chase after. your rationale is based on the fact that people will start chasing for last mark if ESIS is based on raw scores. it could just be an internal protocol, not made known to the cohort taking psle. -
Thinker\" post_id=\"2048478\" time=\"1637857671\" user_id=\"4205:
[/quote]Agree that CCA importance can’t be under-estimated. This is the main reason my son is loving his JC life so much.
I brought it up first because everytime I see a comparison between njc/tjc, and another school (any school), my first alarm is cca. And this cca thing stems from cohort size. A nephew was in one of these, he was in the sec school section of a jc, and some ccas are taken up by dsa, couple that with fewer ccas, and then factor in your own flair/talent or lack of talent, and then your interest, you end up with almost nothing to choose. They have no uniform group. If you are not sporty and not musically inclined, nothing is left. Ok I exaggerate but this “struggle” is real.
Exactly. For that reason, my dd rather choose a good O level express sch than NJC/TJC because the CCAs offered at these jc are so limited.MerlionInGermany\" post_id=\"2048454\" time=\"1637853187\" user_id=\"2964:
[quote=SG_KP1 post_id=2048429 time=1637851199 user_id=188234]I hear the arguments on cohort size but have wondered how much it really matters? I can see how it makes more CCAs available but many of them are still competitive as heck to get a spot in…
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SpongyBobs\" post_id=\"2048383\" time=\"1637845424\" user_id=\"196018:
Hi SG_KP1
Hi and congrats. Personally, with 7(M) I think RVHS is quite safe (M will help in the queuing despite being 3rd choice). Maybe not bulletproof (small risk as you say) but if you are also OK with 5th and 6th choice should something strange happen I would still suggest leaving 1st and 2nd choice as is. Good luck!SG_KP1\" post_id=\"2048367\" time=\"1637842373\" user_id=\"188234:
[quote=SpongyBobs post_id=2048358 time=1637841488 user_id=196018]A daddy with boy getting AL7(M), staying in CCK area..
Any advise if we try following options? (using 2020 indicative COP)
1. HCI : 7(M)
2. ACS(I) IP : 7
3. RVHS : 9(D)
4. ACS(I) EXP : 9
5. BP Gov High : 11
6. Nan Hua High : 11(D)
What would the risk of RVHS as fallback plan in 3rd choice for AL7(M)? Little devil kind of whispering to me that there is small risk, given how many AL4/5/6 out there. Should we bump RVHS to 2nd choice?
BP Gov High & Nan Hua High are toss up, either can be 5th or 6th, as they are just plan C, and confidence level is high.
Why reading your reply made me feel that we are not aggressive enough? Haha..
Nevermind, we still have 5 days till 30th. Will give all the time to my boy to pick his choices.
By the way, I noticed some parents here trying to guess ESIS COP. I was tinkering around ACS(I) admission chatbot. In there, it is stated that ESIS COP for 2022 intake is AL5.[/quote]thanks for clarifying about that. -
Veyron\" post_id=\"2048464\" time=\"1637854774\" user_id=\"30663:
your 3/4 raw to tscore conversion is incorrect[/quote]okie\" post_id=\"2048462\" time=\"1637854383\" user_id=\"44307:
[quote=Veyron post_id=2048400 time=1637847975 user_id=30663]
NJC COP for 2020 was 254 or AL7. Under AL system, AL8 can go as low as 247 if there is an AL5 subject in the mix.
Very low chance for NJC partly also due to its centralized location.
In the west, better choose RVHS
Just wondering, how do u know AL8 can be as low as 247? The lowest permutation i can get is 251 (65 + 90 + 90 + 90 )/4*3
Replying to this post because my cow baby has gone to bed and I couldn’t find anything else to do tonight. For the benefit of other anxious parents who are still not so sure of how the indicative AL scores came about - here’s a recap: https://www.moe.gov.sg/-/media/files/news/press/2021/annex-d-psle-2021.pdf?la=en&hash=D9545EF210071D1E7F0B220D7C85F20C73CB8DB4
Pasting here for easy reference.
The indicative PSLE Score ranges for the individual schools were simulated using the 2020 P6 cohort’s PSLE results and school choices.
• MOE first simulated each student’s individual subject score in AL terms, based on their raw subject scores.
• Then, we added the AL scores for each PSLE subject to form a student’s total PSLE Score.
Using these simulated PSLE Scores and students’ school choices from 2020,
• MOE simulated their posting outcomes based on the new S1 Posting System and its tie-breakers (in the order of Citizenship, Choice order of Schools and
Computerised Balloting).
• The indicative PSLE Score ranges for individual secondary schools were then
generated based on the PSLE Scores of the first student and the last student who WOULD HAVE POSTED into the school UNDER THE SIMULATION.
As the 2020 PSLE cohort had their results in T-score terms, the PSLE Score ranges are indicative only, as they were simulated using the 2020 PSLE cohort results and students’ school choices in that same year.
The actual PSLE Score range for a school for a particular year is not pre-determined, and may vary from year to year, depending on the PSLE results and school choice patterns of each P6 cohort.
In short, it means students “admitted” based on the simulation may not be the actual students who went to the schools (ie sec 1 in 2021). It means the last student/students admitted to RGS (sec 1 2021) with actual t score cut off 261 may not be the same last student/students who got “admitted” with AL6 in their simulation. Same goes for all the other schools. Basically MOE did a “what if we sort them out this way” exercise. Thus all the assumptions of certain t score = certain AL are definitely not accurate.
Even if someone claims to have the correct formula for t score = AL conversion, we can never know who and how many did well or worst this year so all kinds of analysis are just meant to keep poor parents awake at night wondering which choices to put for their child’s future school, with no actual help. On top of that, we can never know what’s the choice ranking patterns this year’s cohort will make.
I do hope parents are discerning enough to make judgements for themselves and their children especially during this tight timeframe for the schools selections. We are here to help each other so let’s not have the blind leading the blind and take everyone on a wild goose chase.
Parents, have a good night rest. Most importantly, talk to your children about the schools and their thoughts on this exercise. These communications will help set the stage for your child’s transition into secondary school life, with u as their guiding light.
https://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/article/2021-psle-discussions-and-strategies-children-born-in-2009/ -
Just curious for AL5, why very few mention of MGS after RGS? Cohort is too small? Thank you.
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